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Official Ballistics Mod discusion thread

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  17:57:52  3 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
Elementlmage
10/03/2008 19:49:36
Messages: 258
Official Ballistics Mod discusion thread

Alright, seeing as how I am getting tired of making new threads for each release I will just update the thread with the new updates.

Also, sorry about the hiatus. I burned out about halfway through finishing this up. So I snagged a copy of Heros of AE (great game by the way, Stalker wasn't GSC's first) and went to town.

And without further adue. (I am about 99 percent certain I misspelled that)


General Info:

The purpose of this mod is mainly to de-nerf the weapons in stalker cs and make them more realistic as compared with their real world counter-parts.

Please keep in mind that this is still very beta and not intended to provide perfect realism. It is merely a rough draft for getting as close to that point as possible.

That being said, any feed back is GREATLY appreciated. I am looking for everything from general impression, to comparison of realism to real world experience (I have very little and am modding this based on information I have looked up on the various ammo types)

My email is flankerx7@yahoo.com

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-------------------------------------
Version .4

Alright, another new version and another shit load of changes. In this version I am delivering the long promised weapon changes with a little twist... Ironsights actually work now. Yeah!!! Horray for me!

Anywho, I'd like to thank everyone who gave feedback for the last version. Also, you may be wondering why I skipped a version. .3 was internal only, I decided not to release it as there was not a big enough difference between it and .2 to justify it.

The direction that it looks like I will be going in from now on is a complete overhaul of the weapons system in stalker. In the next release look for major changes to the upgrade system as well as minor tweaks to all previous changes.
---------------
Note:

I am not 100 percent sure if this mod will work with 1.5. I am having some issues with the patch

Anyway, there are no script changes or anyother changes that should conflict with and changes the patch made. For now, just cross your fingers and hope not to get a CTD


------------------------
Installation:


1. Place gamedata folder in X:\Program Files\Deep Silver\S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Clear Sky - X being the drive letter you installed it to.

2. Edit you fsgame.ltx file to force the game to use the files in the gamedata folder rather than the ones its has stored in the database files
Do this by editing the the $game_data$ line to read $game_data$ = true| true|
This way it will use any files found in the gamedata folder first and overlook those already present in the database.

Disclaimer:

I in no way guarantee that this mod will not void you save games or cause unforeseen errors. However, if it makes you feel any better, it works just fine on my PC and install.




----------------------------

v.4 changes

-Sakahrov, in order to finance his research, now sells rare weapons and a few additional ammo types.
There is a ten percent change for each of the following weapons to be available:
-f2000
-g36
-pkm
-svu
Also three new ammo types and one old favorite:
-7.62x54 7n14 (there is a glitch, it still shows up as 7n1 ammo but it costs 1k vs 450, and yes it is that much better
-SP-5 (if you are tired of spending the cash for SP-6 or using those shitty PAB-9s)
-M209 (now has a 15m kill radius, have fun!)
-Vog-25p (now has a ten meter kill radius with dramtically increased lethality)

-All assualt rifles as well as the Winchester and Spas have had their iron sights manually re-aligned

-Pistols still have 1337 vision, I am debating whether or not to add iron sights back in.

-Hit probabilities for the player(how likely the bullet is to count as a hit when the AI hits you) has been turned off. Cover and decent armor is HIGHLY recommended.
This change is in no way masochistic if you play correctly. You are NOT Selvester Stalone!!!
-----------
Weapon changes from .2 to .4

-All weapon hit_probabilities have been turned off. If you hit the target, it will count.

-Abakan
-base acc. changed from .6 to .45
-cam_disp changed from .1 to .2
-cam_disp_inc changed from .6 to .2
-zoom_cam_disp changed from .1 to .2
-zoom_cam_disp_inc changed from .5 to .2

-AK-74
-base acc. changed from .8 to .55

-AK-74u
-base acc. changed from .9 to .8
-cam_disp changed from .5 to .8

-Beretta
-base acc. changed from .8 to .65
-cam_disp changed from .6 to .8
-cam_disp_inc changed from .6 to 1.2

-1911
-cam_disp changed from 1.2 to 2.0

-Deagle
-base acc. changed from .7 to .4
-cam_disp changed from 1.2 to 4.0

-Rape2000
-base acc. changed from .6 to .4
-cam_disp changed from .5 to .1
-cam_disp_inc changed from .5 to .15
-zoom_cam_disp changed from .5 to .1
-zoom_cam_disp_inc changed from .5 to .1
-grenade velocity launcher muzzle velocity increased to 76 m/s from 30 m/s

-G36
-base acc. changed from .6 to .35
-zoom_cam_disp changed from .1 to .2
-zoom_cam_disp_inc changed from .1 to .2

-Groza
-base acc. changed from .7 to .55
-grenade launcher velocity inc. to 76 from 30

-Browning HP
-made it slightly less sucky, although GSC did come pretty close on the level of suck...and fail

-L85
-base acc. changed from .8 to .5
-fail increased, ugh I mean, cam_disp changed from .4 to 1.2
-cam_disp_inc changed from .4 to .6
-zoom_cam_disp changed from .3 1.0

-ZM LR300(no, it's NOT the HK416....I wish it were
-base ac. changed from .65 to .55

-MP5
-base acc. changed from .8 to .6
-cam_disp changed from .2 to .5
-cam_disp_inc changed from .5 to .2
-cam_disp_frac changed from .7 to 1.1
-cam_max angle_horz changed from 10.0 to 5.0
-zoom_cam_disp changed from .2 to .5
-zoom_cam_disp_inc change from .5 to .2
-zoom_cam_disp_frac changed from .7 to 1.1
-zoom_cam_angle_horz changed from 10.0 to 5.0

-Sig 220
-base acc changed from .6 to .5

-Sig 550
-base acc changed from .7 to .35

-SVU
-base acc changed from .25 to .1

-HK USP
-base acc changed from .7 to .55

-VSS
-base acc changed from .25 to .15

-9x18 pbp
-k_hit changed from 1 to 1.1

-9x19 pbp
-k_ap changed from .45 to .55

-.45 ACP
-k_hit changed from 1.6 to 2.0
-k_ap changed from .6 to .4

-.45 Hydro
-k_hit changed from 2 to 2.5
-k_impulse changed from 3 to 1

-5.45 fmj
-k_pierce changed from .85 to .6

-5.45 AP
-k_pierce changed from 1.1 to .9

-5.56 NATO
-k_pierce changed from .7 to .5

-5.56 AP
-k_pierce changed from 1.2 to .9

-7.62x54 7n1
-k_pierce changed from 1 to .8

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-------------------------------------
Version .2

Thoughts:

Well, here we go again. After a couple of days of feedback, testing, and tweaking here is version .2 of what for now will be called "Ballistics Mod" due to my lack of creativity and caring for what ever the hell my mod is called.

From here I have big plans. The next mod will include a complete revamp of the ironsight accuracy system and maybe some work on the upgrade system although I haven't really decided on the scale of the upgrades yet. As usual none of the current value are set in stone.

They can and most likely will be tweaked again to provide better balance/realism as I continue to overhaul the weapon statistics in stalker cs.


Anyone who wants to get started in modding weapons themselves or tweak my value for to there liking can go to this link to learn more about how the different scripts effect the gunplay.

https://www.gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr2&thm_page=1&thm_id=17337&sec_id=22


Changes (quite a few):

-Lowered buck shot AP to .15 from .2

-Increased 5.45x39 FMJ AP to .85 from .7

-Increased 5.45x39 FMJ damage to 1.2 from .9

-Lowered 5.45x39 AP's AP to 1.1 from 1.2

-Raised 5.45x39 AP's damage to .95 from .7

-Lowered 5.56x45 AP's AP to 1.2 from 1.4

-Increased 5.56x45 FMJ AP to .7 from .6

-Increased 5.56x45 FMJ damage to 2.3 from 2

-Increased 5.45/5.56 AP's accuracy by 5% due to the better balance and quality of the rounds

-Increased all pistol and rifle periods to 50000 shots untill its condition reaches 0
(Deagle, SIG 220, and the USP all lost a tenth of a percent of their condition for each shot fired.)

-AN-94 requires maintenance every 20k shots.

-LR 300 requires maintenance every 25k shots.

-When a weapon miss fires it loses 5 percent of its overall condition. This is the stock value. I have not changed b/c I only noticed right as I was about to release the mod. This will be fixed in version .3

-All weapons have had the accuracy penalty for poor condition severly lowered. From 100 percent to 0 percent will still notice some change but not nearly as bad as portraid in vanilla.
The idea behind this change is that the penalty should be in reduced reliabilty and not in making your weapon a smooth bore musket.

-Changed BM16(sawed off shotty) Base Spread from 1.1 to 2.3

-Modded all upgrade files to reflect the changes to the source weapon values.

-Increased Shotgun Slug damamge to 2.5 from 1.2 and turned off "explode on hit"

-Increased Shotgun Dart AP to 1.4 from .95 and turned off "explode on hit"

-Increased Shotgun Dart Damage to 2.1 from 1.4

-Decreased 7.62x54 7n1 dispersal by 5 percent

-Increased 7.62x54 7n1 damage to 1.6 from 1

-Decreased 7.62x54 7n14 spread by 10 percent

-Increased 7.62x54 7n14 damage to 1.8 from 1.2

-Increased F1 grenades threat radius to 10 m and increased damage by about 250 percent.












---------------------------------------------
Version .1

Thoughts:

Alright, I have made some numerous changes to the Vanilla CS ballistics models. Please keep in mind that these reflect test values and not the final product. However, there will be no further changes made to the weapons muzzle velocities, while RPM and range is still up for debate.

Changes:

-All pistols now have a maximum range of 150 meters vs. the original 50 meters. Also, their muzzle velocities have been update to match their IRL counter parts.
Some I had a hard time identifying or even getting info so in those situation I used an "average" value for its muzzle velocity.
Something else to note, a few of the pistols had incorrect mag size (SIG 220, H&K USP, etc), those values have also been changed.

-I am currently experimenting with Desert Eagle to gets its damage level to be more realistic. Please not that I have not yet changed its recoil attributes to match the changes in power. The Deagle will be based on the .50 AE round. However, since I do not feel like modding in .50 AE rounds atm, .45 will have to suffice.

-All assualt rifles have had their max ranges increased to 1 kilometer (except the 74u for obvious reasons)

-All assualt rifles have been given their appropriate fire rates and muzzle velocities. In some cases this may prove to be a blessing and a curse as most of them had their fire rates set about 0 too low and muzzle velocities on average where well under the halfway mark.

-The PKM now has a 200 round box mag and fires at 650 RPM with an 840 m/s muzzle velocity. All of these values have been significant changed from the vanilla settings. Eventually I will get around to getting the accuracy corrected as GSC has made it about as accurate as waist firing an MG3.

-The Draganov SVU and SVD have only received minor tweaks. Their MV has been increased to 820 m/s and the SVU now has a 20 round mag just to make things interesting(yes, there is a 20 round mag availible for the SVU, but not the SVD )

-You may notice slight differences in the Groza, AS Val, VSS. Their MV has been increased to 300 m/s vs. 250 m/s (although it may not be enough to notice a real difference) and the VSS/AS Val have had their firing rates increased to 900 RPM.

-None of the recoil or accuracy peramiters have been changed. Any accuracy changes that have resulted are b/c of my mods to the ammo.

-12ga buck has been reduced to 12 pellets, with a 1.2 spread. I am trying to keep it at a 1m spread at 50m.
YOU WILL DIE if you take a close shot to the chest with buck while wearing starting armor. This is highly realistic as you are only wearing leather.
Your best bet is to keep at range and stay behind cover.


Install:

1. Place gamedata folder in X:\Program Files\Deep Silver\S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Clear Sky - X being the drive letter you installed it to.

2. Edit you fsgame.ltx file to force the game to use the files in the gamedata folder rather than the ones its has stored in the database files
Do this by editing the the $game_data$ line to read $game_data$ = true| true|
This way it will use any files found in the gamedata folder first and overlook those already present in the database.

Disclaimer:

I in no way guarantee that this mod will not void you save games or cause unforeseen errors. However, if it makes you feel any better, it works just fine on my PC and install.


















------------------------------------------------
Version .01

Installation:

1. Place gamedata folder in X:\Program Files\Deep Silver\S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Clear Sky - X being the drive letter you installed it to.

2. Edit you fsgame.ltx file to force the game to use the files in the gamedata folder rather than the ones its has stored in the database files
Do this by editing the the $game_data$ line to read $game_data$ = true| true|
This way it will use any files found in the gamedata folder first and overlook those already present in the database.

Disclaimer:

I in no way guarantee that this mod will not void you save games or cause unforeseen errors. However, if it makes you feel any better, it works just fine on my PC and install.






As always, filefront link soon to follow

YARG, and here it is:

http://stalker.filefront.com/file/Ballistics_Mod;94535







Statement of "Permission for Use"

I give NO permission, expressed or implied, to use my mod in any way, shape, or form with any other mod. You MAY use it for your own personal use and mod it to how you see fit.

Please keep in mind that I am not being mean. I simply wish to polish off the rough edges before I allow it merged with any other mods. For those of you when I give blanket "yes", wait till around version .5
  18:21:39  3 October 2008
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Jketiynu
Swartz
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On forum: 04/05/2007
Messages: 867
Can't wait to play it
  19:50:19  3 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
http://stalker.filefront.com/file/Ballistics_Mod;94535

Alright, here is the link. Happy stalking!
  20:29:46  3 October 2008
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topeira
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 02/28/2007
 

Message edited by:
topeira
10/03/2008 20:42:49
Messages: 427

---QUOTATION---
http://stalker.filefront.com/file/Ballistics_Mod;94535

Alright, here is the link. Happy stalking!
---END QUOTATION---


i tried it but there are a lot of things wrong with it.

the MP5 causes the game to crash on me.

the recoil makes the guns bounce DOWNWARDS instead of upwards. even non modified weapons.
the G36 (i think it's that gun) barely has any recoil at all...

in short - im sticking with another mod for weapons.

im hoping for a mod that will make weapons as lil accurate as the weapons in COD4 are when NOT zoomed but pretty accurate when ARE zoomed. right now even the mods seem to keep weapons relatively accurate when no zoomed.
it wouldnt be an issue if i could turn the crosshair off, but i cant
  21:52:52  3 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
Elementlmage
10/03/2008 22:00:56
Messages: 258
I'm still not sure what is causing downward recoil. I think it has something to do with cam_disp_fraction but I have yet to really figure out what it does other than control recoil. However, I only see downward recoil on single shots. Bursts and full auto the recoil moves in the right direction.

I wonder what could be causing the mp5 to crash... oh I think I know, I'll brb.


-Edit-

Found it. Here are some quick instructions on a hot fix.

1. Go into x:\Program Files\Deep Silver\S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Clear Sky\gamedata\configs\weapons

2. Find mp5.ltx

3. Hit control+f and type in slot

4. change to slot =2



Apparently the mp3 doesnt like being a secondary weapon.

I'll have a hot fix up for it on filefront soon
  22:11:15  3 October 2008
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llama man
Llamanized metalheadstalker
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On forum: 04/29/2008
Messages: 1424
Maybe you've set some recoil-thingie to negative instead of positive or something? Like if recoil=3 you changed it to recoil=-2?

No, i cant script at all. But it seemed like a possibility.
  22:51:50  3 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
AHAHA, nice

Nope, no neg values. I am fairly certain it has to do with cam_dispersal_frac as it fits this equation:

cam_disp*cam_disp_frac+-cam_disp*(1-cam_disp_frac)=cam_disp modifier

recoil for first shot=cam_disp*cam_disp mod

recoil for every shot after the first=cam_disp_inc*cam_disp mod

So, it looks like the only way to fix the problem is to use a cam_disp_frac that is greater than one...alright I figured it out. Man, you guys are good at knocking me in the right direction.
  10:59:25  4 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Hmmmmm, 188 views and only 8 posts(four by me). Hopefully that means you guys are taking your time and soaking it in. Lol

Anyway, I am going off on a little trip and will be back around 8:00 pm CST sunday. Happy stalking yall. I'll be working on upgrades and recoil when I get back.
  05:40:31  6 October 2008
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Jketiynu
Swartz
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On forum: 04/05/2007
Messages: 867
Just beat the game again with the latest version of the mod installed.

It was a lot of fun, and much more realistic than in vanilla. I doubt I could go back to the original files now. It's very satisfying to take out an LR 300 with AP ammo and waste a whole bunch of people that are hiding behind a wall

I did notice the downward recoil other people have mentioned though (first time noticing it). I only noticed it on the LR300, and only when zoomed in through my scope. Not a big issue to me though.

Also, in the release notes you said you modded the trader in Cordon to have some rare weapons and ammo. You forgot to include that file in the release
  07:48:01  6 October 2008
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Uzerrr
(Senior)
 
On forum: 09/22/2008
Messages: 72

---QUOTATION---
Hmmmmm, 188 views and only 8 posts(four by me). Hopefully that means you guys are taking your time and soaking it in. Lol
---END QUOTATION---


Well... I am just passing by, I've stopped trying mods until AI will be fixed. - By patch or mod... I just hate to be shot when I am perfectly covered in the bushes and so on. I can't see sh*t, but enemy see me perfectly...
So... sorry about being just a watcher ;>
  13:49:08  6 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
@Jketiynu

It's Sakharov, not Sadorivich...Sakharov is the scientist at yantar. And yes, yes I did forget it. Oh well, I'll make it a point to release it in v.5. I don't think it was a make or break issue, however the 7n14 rounds for the SVD and SVU are one shot kills.

@Uzerr

I understand perfectly. In my own mod I get face raped by the MG at Cordon coming out of the swamps in the middle of the night. I may snag another mod as a reference and try to mod in some more realist AI LoS.
  15:53:48  6 October 2008
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Uzerrr
(Senior)
 
On forum: 09/22/2008
Messages: 72

---QUOTATION---
understand perfectly. In my own mod I get face raped by the MG at Cordon
---END QUOTATION---


Yes, that's the perfect example, I have totally no idea how to pass that mg without disableing mod. But wait... I don't want to cheat, I just want to have fair chance in dealing with that problem.
So... I hope someone will make some tweaking to AI...
It would be great if u would find some spare time to look into this issue.
  17:33:11  6 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Ceano just released one a few min ago. I'm going to go test it and if it's any good I'll ask him if I can use it with my mod.

There is also a slight work around. If you drop you difficulty down to novice it is possible to get away. It still takes a few med kits though
  23:23:39  6 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Alright, I've been at work for the past few hours.

I have added in the real weapon names and added a little bit two a few descriptions

Now I am going to mess with a few of the weapon's recoil and fix the negative recoil glitch.
  23:48:08  6 October 2008
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bobwalt
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/02/2007
Messages: 217
Would it be possible to come out with a mini-mod that included only the following:

-Sakahrov, in order to finance his research, now sells rare weapons and a few additional ammo types.
There is a ten percent change for each of the following weapons to be available:
-f2000
-g36
-pkm
-svu
Also three new ammo types and one old favorite:
-7.62x54 7n14 (there is a glitch, it still shows up as 7n1 ammo but it costs 1k vs 450, and yes it is that much better
-SP-5 (if you are tired of spending the cash for SP-6 or using those shitty PAB-9s)
-M209 (now has a 15m kill radius, have fun!)
-Vog-25p (now has a ten meter kill radius with dramtically increased lethality)

-All assualt rifles as well as the Winchester and Spas have had their iron sights manually re-aligned

-Pistols still have 1337 vision, I am debating whether or not to add iron sights back in.-

That would be great!

Bob
  01:38:17  7 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
I SUUUPPPPOOOOSSSSSE.......

However, it kind of undermines what I'm trying to do. However, if it leads to extra popularity for ME....

Lol, j/k. Tell you what, give me some time to fix a few of the descriptions and add in real weapon names and it's a deal. Do you want the fixed weapon accuracy or do you want to leave that out?
  02:05:15  7 October 2008
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Catsy
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On forum: 04/10/2008
Messages: 259
I don't suppose there's a chance of a merge between this mod and the one that unlocks all upgrade paths for weapons and armor (i.e. both accuracy and assault trees, or both armor and resistance trees)?

I'm currently running the unlock mod while tweaking the ballistics to my liking, but being able to run yours at the same time would be awesome.
  02:12:06  7 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
You wouldn't happen to have a list handy of the files required for the upgrade unlock mod would you. I doubt that my mod would conflict with it, but I would be wary about upgrading most of the weapons as their current value differ wildly from the vanilla values. However, the armor is still untouched so that is a safe bet.

As of know I am working to rewrite the upgrade value to fix the issue, but it will take a good bit of work. Good thing I've got a whole lotta Van Halen queued up. (Yes, I MUST use the archaic spelling!)
  02:21:52  7 October 2008
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bobwalt
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On forum: 04/02/2007
 

Message edited by:
bobwalt
10/07/2008 2:24:29
Messages: 217

---QUOTATION---
I SUUUPPPPOOOOSSSSSE.......

However, it kind of undermines what I'm trying to do. However, if it leads to extra popularity for ME....

Lol, j/k. Tell you what, give me some time to fix a few of the descriptions and add in real weapon names and it's a deal. Do you want the fixed weapon accuracy or do you want to leave that out?
---END QUOTATION---



Cool! Leave out weapon accuracy. The reason is that I am not sure how upgrading the weapon will react to it and many people including myself love to upgrade something. Also I am not sure it is good thing to remove the hit probability. If you are at a range then maybe yes but out in the "real world" it is quite possible for environmental factors to affect your shot and I suspect that is what the hit probability is trying to simulate. However, the SVD should be a one shot kill after all the upgrades.

Bob

Bob
  03:58:31  7 October 2008
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Catsy
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On forum: 04/10/2008
Messages: 259

---QUOTATION---
You wouldn't happen to have a list handy of the files required for the upgrade unlock mod would you. I doubt that my mod would conflict with it, but I would be wary about upgrading most of the weapons as their current value differ wildly from the vanilla values. However, the armor is still untouched so that is a safe bet.

As of know I am working to rewrite the upgrade value to fix the issue, but it will take a good bit of work. Good thing I've got a whole lotta Van Halen queued up. (Yes, I MUST use the archaic spelling!)
---END QUOTATION---



The upgrade unlock mod changes every weapon and upgrade file, by necessity. There's a thread somewhere around here that details what specifically is changed, it's something to do with all of the upgrade_aceg and such on in the end of the upgrade files. It shouldn't conflict with the ballistics mod if they're merged, since they're not changing the same things, just the same files.

On the other hand, if the ballistics mod doesn't modify the upgrade files, then yeah, you're going to get some spectacular bugs if anyone actually upgrades anything. The upgrades that change the base dispersion, hit power, misfire chance, recoil--most of them, really--make absolute subtractions from these settings, and can roll over into negative numbers.
  13:49:40  7 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
I am already well aware of that. Today I am going to be hard at work re-writing the upgrades. The will be completely different from the stock upgrades. Since I have already fixed most of the guns, I will be trying to make them be slight tweaks.
  16:46:26  7 October 2008
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Catsy
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/10/2008
Messages: 259

---QUOTATION---
I am already well aware of that. Today I am going to be hard at work re-writing the upgrades. The will be completely different from the stock upgrades. Since I have already fixed most of the guns, I will be trying to make them be slight tweaks.
---END QUOTATION---



Looking forward to that.
  16:38:59  8 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Alright, I hate to say it but I have had a MAJOR set back. Apparently something I modded has caused all of my weapons to like triple damage. I have re-installed my v.4 backup and am testing to figure out what it is that I have done.(Yes, I keep backups. I'm smart like that..lol)

Anyway, at this point I am completely clueless as to what I have done to cause this. I will report more on this once I have figured out something.
  18:04:39  8 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Alright, I think I have narrowed the problem down to float32. However, I have not tested all of the possibilities. I still have my trader mod and a few other mods to throw in the mix before I can give a definite answer.
  19:26:48  8 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Alright, Float32 has been cleared of any wrong doing. It is infact Ceano's AI mod that is the culprit. I've shot him off a question to ask what else he has modded with m_stalker besides the detection thresholds and I will hopefully hear from him soon.


Triple Post!!!!
  13:32:40  26 October 2008
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WilliamAgain
(Novice)
 
On forum: 08/26/2008
Messages: 10
I dl'd your mod off of FF and I am wondering whats up with the actor.ltx file you have with it? Specifically - is it needed? I ask this as I am using 1.5.0.5 version of CS and I have my own moded actor.ltx. I basically want you weapon values/ranges/etc. I am guessing that the actor file contains the probability hit detection for the player (you mentioned that you edited that out or something similar).
  15:39:48  26 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
I edit, actot hit probability, iron sight acc., and iron size adjustment. The values should be easy enough to find.

hit_probability
disp_aim


Actually, I think iron sight size is in system.ltx


But ya, I'm taking a break from stalker atm. So it will be a while before any new updates come out.
  09:04:56  28 October 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Alright, well... since I have pretty much stopped work on this mod for now(I do intend to pick it up later after I stop loling at how bad FC2 was, and see if fallout has the same effect) I have decided to lift the usage ban. Anyone who wishes to use my mod in their own mod may do so with full rights as long as they credit me.
  08:27:28  3 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Alright, here goes another triple post. But, it's constructive this time... I promise.


Here it is, version .41


Version .41

I will dispense with the pleasantries as this update contains only minor changes. I have added in the real weapons names, Sakharov's new ammo and weapon types and the MP5 fix.

All of these things were promised in version .4 but were not implemented because of what can basically be summed up as impetus. But, here they are. And or those of you wondering, Yes this does signify my re-entry back into modding.

I can't say when exactly, but be on the lookout for my next release.



FF link will be up shortly.
  10:21:36  3 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
Messages: 43
What about including soft tip rounds for the rifles? I also have a birdshot round in my game for use against tushkanos & crows.
  10:36:43  3 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
I may add in new types, but I am going to have to figure out how to do it first. I'm sure it's not that hard and a couple of people have offered to help. Short answer, I will need to finish my current project of reworking the upgrades, but there is a definite possibility of me adding in new ammo types(I still need to add in .50 AE)
  11:09:13  3 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
Messages: 43
No worries I'd be happy to help you out as its not too hard to add new ammo types and apart from the texture editing I can help you out, let me know what you would like to do and I'll give it ago based on your values for the existing ammunition types. Anyone good with gimp would be welcome to make a Bird Shot inventory icon and ammo box texture.
  11:34:12  3 November 2008
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Darkenneko
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 05/03/2008
Messages: 761
Looking Forward for the new releases as they come. =]
You've done a great job so far, and sooner or later I'll bring myself down
to try some of the other ballistic mods, anyways keep the updates coming.
-Calvin
  10:01:05  4 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
http://stalker.filefront.com/file/Ballistics_mod_v41;95423

There it is, version .41. Again, this just adds a few things I forgot to put in the first time and adds the MP5 fix as well. As always, ff took their sweet time.
  19:53:00  4 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Alright, I thought instead of doing my usual boring text update I'd make a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzCBcvWdc88

Unfortunately, the 1 GB limit is a sham. So, the bastards processed the hell out of my vid. What exactly is going on is still partially decipherable but for the most part isn't anything spectacular. What you can see from the video is that firefights now require at least a basic form of planning and calculation and are now somewhat balanced. You have just as much of a possibility of being victorious in an exchange as the AI does(infact, you'll see that right at the end). I also tried to showcase as many of the weapon and ammo types as possible before I died, which you will also see. I manage to work my way through the SVD, 74u, 74, 94, VSS, L85, and the LR300. I may do a second update using various pistols and the PKM if this approach gets a decent reception.

Also, I'd like to thank Caeno for the use of his AI mod. It really helped me get back on track after GSC changed the damage models(without even having the common courtesy to put it in the patch notes)
  12:13:21  6 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20

---QUOTATION---
Alright, I thought instead of doing my usual boring text update I'd make a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzCBcvWdc88

Unfortunately, the 1 GB limit is a sham. So, the bastards processed the hell out of my vid. What exactly is going on is still partially decipherable but for the most part isn't anything spectacular. What you can see from the video is that firefights now require at least a basic form of planning and calculation and are now somewhat balanced. You have just as much of a possibility of being victorious in an exchange as the AI does(infact, you'll see that right at the end). I also tried to showcase as many of the weapon and ammo types as possible before I died, which you will also see. I manage to work my way through the SVD, 74u, 74, 94, VSS, L85, and the LR300. I may do a second update using various pistols and the PKM if this approach gets a decent reception.

Also, I'd like to thank Caeno for the use of his AI mod. It really helped me get back on track after GSC changed the damage models(without even having the common courtesy to put it in the patch notes)
---END QUOTATION---



The recoil on a lot of weapons in the video doesn't look nearly severe enough to me. Have you ever fired an AK? Even on semi-automatic you have to take a second or two to re-acquire the target because the recoil will bring knock you several degrees out of line.

To be honest I haven't downloaded this mod, mostly cause I'm working on a modification of my own that overhauls the weapons and ballistics in game. Maybe if we share information we can help each other out.

For example these are the dispersion and recoil stats I'm currently using for the AK74... Give it a try, if you've actually fired a gun you'll find this to be much more accurate depiction of how weapons behave. *You'll find that full auto is only useful at extreme close ranges and in bursts numbering less then 6 rounds or so*

;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
;params of weapon recoil
fire_dispersion_base = 0.02
control_inertion_factor = 1.2f

;îòäà÷à
cam_relax_speed = 3.4
cam_relax_speed_ai = 3.4
cam_dispersion = 1.15
cam_dispersion_inc = 1.15
cam_dispersion_frac = 0.5
cam_max_angle = 90.0
cam_max_angle_horz = 90.0
cam_step_angle_horz = 1.15

zoom_cam_relax_speed = 3.4
zoom_cam_relax_speed_ai = 3.4
zoom_cam_dispersion = 1.07
zoom_cam_dispersion_inc = 1.07
zoom_cam_dispersion_frac = 0.5
zoom_cam_max_angle = 90.0
zoom_cam_max_angle_horz = 90.0
zoom_cam_step_angle_horz = 1.07

fire_dispersion_condition_factor = 58
misfire_probability = 0.002
misfire_condition_k = 0.00006
condition_shot_dec = 0.00001
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  16:53:01  6 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
Elementlmage
11/06/2008 17:44:09
Messages: 258
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRj7Esc8hJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kEJGjaCkjU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aFLUGq1gvM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQvGu25Be0o

No offense, but these guys don't seem to be having too much trouble. Although, you are right, my values are probably a might to low. I will try your numbers just to be 100 percent sure, but they seem a bit over kill. Those are for the 74 full rifle right?
  18:10:18  6 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Alright, without looking at my already established values for the ak-74, based solely on my experience with your recoil model I came up with this:

;params of weapon recoil
fire_dispersion_base = 0.55
control_inertion_factor = 1.2f

;îòäà÷à
cam_relax_speed = 5
cam_relax_speed_ai = 5
cam_dispersion = 0.8
cam_dispersion_inc = 0.4
cam_dispersion_frac = 1.0
cam_max_angle = 8.0
cam_max_angle_horz = 5.0
cam_step_angle_horz = 0.9

zoom_cam_relax_speed = 5
zoom_cam_relax_speed_ai = 5
zoom_cam_dispersion = 0.7
zoom_cam_dispersion_inc = 0.4
zoom_cam_dispersion_frac = 1.0
zoom_cam_max_angle = 7.0
zoom_cam_max_angle_horz = 5.0
zoom_cam_step_angle_horz = 0.9

fire_dispersion_condition_factor = 2
misfire_probability = 0.002
misfire_condition_k = 0.00006
condition_shot_dec = 0.00001

This set up feels real comfortable to me^^^. Also, these where my vanilla values\/\/\/:

;params of weapon recoil
fire_dispersion_base = 0.55
control_inertion_factor = 1.2f

;îòäà÷à
cam_relax_speed = 3.5
cam_relax_speed_ai = 360
cam_dispersion = 0.7
cam_dispersion_inc = 0.7
cam_dispersion_frac = 1.0
cam_max_angle = 15.0
cam_max_angle_horz = 5.0
cam_step_angle_horz = 0.7

zoom_cam_relax_speed = 5
zoom_cam_relax_speed_ai = 360
zoom_cam_dispersion = 0.6
zoom_cam_dispersion_inc = 0.6
zoom_cam_dispersion_frac = 1.0
zoom_cam_max_angle = 10.0
zoom_cam_max_angle_horz = 5.0
zoom_cam_step_angle_horz = 0.6

fire_dispersion_condition_factor = 2
misfire_probability = 0.0003
misfire_condition_k = 0.05
condition_shot_dec = 0.00002



Also, I noticed something while I was playing. I tend to abuse the hell out of the way the game models recoil. What I do is I rapidly tap the mouse button and sting together single, double, and triple burst rather than use a single long burst. I caught myself doing this using your vanilla values as initially I was feeling very little recoil(which I thought odd considering the large scale of your numbers). Even with your model, using my techniques I was never more than 2-3 degrees into a recoil arc. I have gotten so good at doing this that I don't even notice it anymore and I am able to achieve close to 80 percent of the weapons full rpm. Quite a bit of what you are seeing in the video is just that, me abusing GSC's recoil equation.

Oh, just a though, if you haven't read my primer(which at this point is nothing more than translations of russian text) you might want. Helped me tremendously to know what those little strings of gibberish were saying.

https://www.gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr2&thm_page=11&thm_id=17337&sec_id=22

HEHE, buried on page eleven.

But yeah man, I would be more than happy to share info with you.
  19:53:25  6 November 2008
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{imperialreign}
Звуковой Шаман
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/29/2008
Messages: 3075
hey, man, I'm planning on installing yer mod this weekend, looks most defi worth it.

one request though, if you haven't addressed it yet, think it's possible to bring back the ironsights for the grenade launchers? TBH, the vanilla "shoot from the hip" launcher aiming is ridiculous - considering they left the flight arc in. You go through half a dozen grenades just to get your target sighted right . . .

I tried playing with the cam settings some, but wasn't too successful - it's almost as if they left the launcher aim animations out . . .
  20:12:57  6 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
 

Message edited by:
Roguesaber
11/06/2008 20:13:43
Messages: 20
Yes those values are for the AK-74... though they are a bit old, last night I went through and revamped my recoil modeling... and I'm still tweaking the files... I'll probably lower the max angle to something a bit more civilized then 90 degrees.

Anyway... The fire dispersion value of 0.55 seems really big when an AK with a good barrel can achieve 1.5 MOA (To come up with an accurate fire dispersion value for that divide 1.5/60). Now... You probably noticed the extreme fire dispersion condition factor I use... This is because a weapon who is at 0 condition in my mind is "shot-out" in that the rifling in the barrel has been almost completely worn away. In such a state the accuracy collapses to that of a smoothbore weapon, and since the dispersion on an un-choked shotgun is around 1.16 degrees a shot out AK fires much the same.

It is a very different experience looking down the sights of these weapons while shooting then watching the videos, though I have to admit I've only fired the AK-47 with the 7.62x39 round (Which would have slightly more recoil then the 5.45x39) but I can easily tell you that if you fired those weapons that way at a man sized target at 10 meters, you'd have to be VERY good to put all thirty rounds in the paper. Even in the videos you can see several degrees of muzzle rise and motion to the left and right when firing bursts.

Also... be sure to keep in mind that the AI is given the same recoil you have except for a different time to recenter the weapon. Keeping it at the original value can cause the AI to miss almost constantly after the first burst if you give the weapons significant recoil.
  20:17:42  6 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Hmm, hadn't really noticed. Of course, I don't fire off too many nades either. I prefer the old fashioned way... VSS at 200m >

But, depending on how bad it's f'd up it may only take me a half hour to fix. But, a temp fix on your end would be to either be to disable zoom_hide_cursor or just learn where the center of your screen is. However, if you are still using the vanilla launcher then you would also have to make sure that your nade launcher is set to fire at 76 m/s as this is what the auto ranging system uses. Currently, GSC has all the launchers set to 30m/s.
  20:50:45  6 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
 

Message edited by:
Roguesaber
11/06/2008 21:39:49
Messages: 20
How are you calculating hit damage right now in the mod? I personally am using this calculation.

Ammo Impulse = Muzzle energy in Joules / 100
Ammo Damage = Square root of (Muzzle energy in Joules / 2000)

Weapon Impulse = Weapon Muzzle Velocity / Nominal Ammo Velocity
Weapon Damage = Square root of (Weapon Muzzle Velocity / Nominal Ammo Velocity)

For example a .45 caliber cartridge has a nominal velocity of 310 m/sec, a Colt M1911 has a muzzle velocity of 285 m/sec, or 91.9% of the nominal cartridge energy. By my calculations the impulse is 0.92 * Ammo impulse value and hit power is 0.96 * Ammo hit power.

The results have been pretty impressive, though I have to say it makes the 9x18 Makarov pistol unbelievably weak. Weakest in the game, at least until I add the 7.62x18 and 5.45x18 for other pistols.

EDIT: As a side note, because silencers are designed to reduce the muzzle velocity of a weapon below the speed of sound in conjunction with subsonic ammo. Silencers dramatically lower the stopping power of assault rifles in my mod... Unless you're using weapons specifically designed to be silent like the Val, VSS, or Groza you'll find that enemies don't drop nearly as easily with that can screwed onto the barrel.
  22:21:48  6 November 2008
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{imperialreign}
Звуковой Шаман
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On forum: 10/29/2008
Messages: 3075

---QUOTATION---
Hmm, hadn't really noticed. Of course, I don't fire off too many nades either. I prefer the old fashioned way... VSS at 200m >

But, depending on how bad it's f'd up it may only take me a half hour to fix. But, a temp fix on your end would be to either be to disable zoom_hide_cursor or just learn where the center of your screen is. However, if you are still using the vanilla launcher then you would also have to make sure that your nade launcher is set to fire at 76 m/s as this is what the auto ranging system uses. Currently, GSC has all the launchers set to 30m/s.
---END QUOTATION---



Well, GSC in their brilliance will allow you to r-click to "aim" the launcher, but it's really just a zoom in deal. The actor animation still keeps the weapon at the bottom right, so you don't even zoom in on any ironsights.

thing is - even aiming in, and then firing, it'll fire straight ahead of the actor, with the grenade arc. If you want to cover distance, you have to actually aim at the sky and fire . . . unlike in SoC where aiming moved the weapon animation to center, and rotated the muzzle towards the actor to allow for a trajectory.

TBH, it's borked enough that I don't even worry about the launchers, nor amassing any ammo for them . . . much as it dissapoints me - it was rather fun being able to plop a M209 into the middle of a bunch of AI and watch them all get blasted sideways . . . would be even more fun with how densely populated CS is.


I'll mess with it some later after class though.
  22:58:30  6 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
http://www.xfire.com/screenshots/elementlmage/ss_file-48b5cfa1bc35aaa342a668ba3b225c348b27c2ba.jpg

Behold! My prowess as a modder! j/k I got the groza nade sights aligned take a look.

Rogue:

(gun damage*bullet damage)/ (1+(range to target/(max range of gun*bullet modifier)*k_air_resistance)*(k_ap*(1- armor protection))

That is what the damage model used to look like. However, that model changed significantly with the 1.05 update to CS. The most I have been able to discern is that bullet damage and the bullet ap coefficient effect damage exponentially rather than linearly (like in the old eq.) As well, it is non-distributive. ap and damage are no longer interchangeable, they effect the outcome in there own special way.

Anyway, Im off to get wasted. I'll discuss this in more detail tomorrow.
  01:37:44  7 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
Messages: 43
I'm currently working JSP rounds for the various calibres how much more damaging should I make them than the FMJ rounds? Is a blanket 20% acceptable? & should AP be half of the equivalent FMJ round?
  01:42:43  7 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20
You mean JHP? Jacketed-hollow point rounds?

I'd suggest experimenting for awhile, personally I've got JHP's doing 2x damage and having 1/2 the penetration. I figure a hollow point will deform dramatically on impact and result in a substantially larger wound. On the other hand, I've got AP rounds doing 1/2 damage and 2x penetration.

But thats for me personally, go ahead and play around with it before making up your mind.
  02:57:46  7 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
Messages: 43
Nope Jacketed Soft Point alot of military weapons can't take JHP rounds due to jamming too easily as they were never designed to fire them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_point_bullet
  06:16:28  7 November 2008
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{imperialreign}
Звуковой Шаман
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/29/2008
Messages: 3075

---QUOTATION---
http://www.xfire.com/screenshots/elementlmage/ss_file-48b5cfa1bc35aaa342a668ba3b225c348b27c2ba.jpg

Behold! My prowess as a modder! j/k I got the groza nade sights aligned take a look.

---END QUOTATION---



that just brought a tear to my eye!

I reckon, then, it must'nt be much harder to then rotate the front of the weapon upwards and back towards the actor?
  19:30:57  7 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258

---QUOTATION---

EDIT: As a side note, because silencers are designed to reduce the muzzle velocity of a weapon below the speed of sound in conjunction with subsonic ammo. Silencers dramatically lower the stopping power of assault rifles in my mod... Unless you're using weapons specifically designed to be silent like the Val, VSS, or Groza you'll find that enemies don't drop nearly as easily with that can screwed onto the barrel.
---END QUOTATION---



Incorrect... Silencers are only used in conjunction with subsonic weapons and ammo. Supersonic weapons use suppressors. All suppressors are designed to do is reduce the noise some and drastically decrease muzzle flash. In fact, a well made suppressor(see: US Army SupMod) will actually INCREASE the weapons accuracy and muzzle velocity.

Also, I found a reference to your 1.5 MoA assertion with the AK-74:


---QUOTATION---
Accuracy on the rifles is very much a mixed bag. Associates and I have found a wide variance in the accuracy performance on the rifles from batch to batch and with different ammo. Expect any of the rifles to shoot within 7 MOA with factory ammo, but you can get lucky and find an ammo and rifle combination that will do 2 MOA. Mounting one of the proprietary Soviet style scopes will help get the most accuracy out of one of these rifles, and about one in ten are capable of being very accurate - as good as 1.5 MOA at 300 yards or less, but the accuracy drops off drastically as range increases beyond that. Personally, I think the iron sights are part of the culprit on the lackluster accuracy reputation of AKs in general and the guns should perform better with just about any sort of optic but I hear a consistent 3 MOA is common if you use one of the Russian scopes with integral mount. Note that the AK-74 types, while only a little bit more mechanically accurate than the standard 7.62X39 types, the 5.45 and 5.56 types are usually functionally more accurate in the hands of more shooters. I have yet to fully test one of the 5.45 AKs with one of the advanced Belarus made 3.5X optics but the concept looks promising. It is entirely likely that a SAR- 2 or SAR-3 equipped with such a scope would be a fairly good and cost effective option for a modern effective fighting rifle, but could fall short of the stopping power necessary for hunting medium game.
---END QUOTATION---




Only the best rifles do 1.5 MoA. 90 percent of all 74s do around 3 or worse. Also, MoA is parabolic, so the acc. drastically decreases the farther you do down range. The 6.8 actually hits 60+ MoA at 1 kilo (6.8 is what the US is switching over too) However, the values I got from that article are from 300m, so they are more than stalker relevent.

My next point, is although fire_dispersion_base is said to be "accuracy in a vice) in the comment next to it, it really is not. The actor.ltx HEAVILY mods acc based on what stance you are doing and FDB is used as a direct reference not a "perfect acc" like the comment implies.


Take a gander at my actor.ltx values:

disp_base = 2.0
disp_aim = 0.01
disp_vel_factor = 2.0
disp_accel_factor = 0.0
disp_crouch_factor = -0.5
disp_crouch_no_acc_factor = -0.8
disp_jump_factor = 2.0

disp_base is standing still and straight up, and I believe it is added directly to FDB.

disp_aim however multiplies itself by FDB. So although you technically have the "correct" MoA for the AK-74 in your rifle mod, it winds up being 100x more accurate on my setup.

In case you were wondering, the stock value for disp_aim is .04. So even on your setup(assuming you haven't messed with this) you will still be shooting 25x more accurately than normal. So, you value of .02 DoA(degree of arc) would actually winds up being .0008 or 0.048 MoA on yours or 0.012 on mine(which is more accurate than an Eliseor shooting 6.5 Grendal)

Your heart is in the right place, but there is much more to this game than what is found in the weapons folder. I had to learn that the hard way, but as a result, I have a deep conceptual understanding of the way this game works.


Now I am off to translate some tidbits I missed into english. Always a pleasure and I hope to see you around.
  21:10:45  7 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
 

Message edited by:
Roguesaber
11/07/2008 21:56:26
Messages: 20
Well the 1.5 MOA when used in conjunction with the extremely large multiplier based on the condition of the rifle means that unless you're using a brand new, un-blemished AK or are spending quite a bit to keep it in perfect working order you're not getting 1.5 MOA.

The average ak you pick up is going to be around 75% condition and those weapons will shoot around 0.29 degrees of dispersion.

As for the actor settings. I completely forgot about those. I've changed my dispersion factors for m_stalker ai but completely forgot about using those...

I think I'll change em and give it another try.

EDIT: Strange... I did a rough calculation of the size of a spread from an unchoked shotgun at the proper range of 37 meters, and fired it at that range with both the original settings and new actor settings aiming down the sight. The spread was almost identical. Apparently while the zoom dispersion factor does multiply with the original dispersion factor, it does not seem to multiply with the fire dispersion base but simply adds itself ontop of the base value. So the fire dispersion base factor is the absolute maximum amount of accuracy a rifle can produce and isn't multiplied by anything as far as I can tell.
  02:22:00  8 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
Messages: 43

---QUOTATION---
You mean JHP? Jacketed-hollow point rounds?

I'd suggest experimenting for awhile, personally I've got JHP's doing 2x damage and having 1/2 the penetration. I figure a hollow point will deform dramatically on impact and result in a substantially larger wound. On the other hand, I've got AP rounds doing 1/2 damage and 2x penetration.

But thats for me personally, go ahead and play around with it before making up your mind.
---END QUOTATION---



The below seems to be balanced.

k_dist = 1
k_disp = 3
k_hit = 1.4
k_impulse = 1
k_pierce = 1.00
k_ap = 0.4
impair = 1.22
buck_shot = 1
tracer = off
wm_size = 0.05
  11:35:04  8 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258

---QUOTATION---
You mean JHP? Jacketed-hollow point rounds?

I'd suggest experimenting for awhile, personally I've got JHP's doing 2x damage and having 1/2 the penetration. I figure a hollow point will deform dramatically on impact and result in a substantially larger wound. On the other hand, I've got AP rounds doing 1/2 damage and 2x penetration.

But thats for me personally, go ahead and play around with it before making up your mind.

The below seems to be balanced.

k_dist = 1
k_disp = 3
k_hit = 1.4
k_impulse = 1
k_pierce = 1.00
k_ap = 0.4
impair = 1.22
buck_shot = 1
tracer = off
wm_size = 0.05
---END QUOTATION---



What round is that for? 45. JSP? Check out my Hydroshock model:

k_dist = 1
k_disp = 1
k_hit = 2.8
k_impulse = 1
k_pierce = 0.15
k_ap = 0.15
impair = 1
buck_shot = 1
tracer = on
wm_size = 0.05

Completely ineffective against all but the weakest armor, but it can DAMN sure put a hole in a mutant.
  14:21:39  8 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
Messages: 43
5.45x39mm JSP I'm trying to make it roughly halfway between a FMJ & JHP in terms of effectivness.
  14:45:44  8 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Here are my number for the 5.56 ss190s:

k_dist = 1
k_disp = 1
k_hit = 1.8
k_impulse = 1.3
k_pierce = 0.5
k_ap = 0.45
impair = 3
buck_shot = 1
tracer = on
wm_size = 0.05

This set up takes about 2 hits to drop someone wearing 15% armor, 6-7 for 30% and around 15 (it stop counting after a while) for 60%. My assumption is that 15=level 1, 30 =level 2, and 60= level 3, anything above that and you get the dragon skin effect(upgrades ftmfw):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKnfHhRl7U0&feature=related
  00:45:44  9 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
 

Message edited by:
marlin
11/09/2008 10:23:21
Messages: 43
Is this a JHP round? The only SS190 I am familiar with is the P90 round.

EDIT: You must mean SS109 thats a FMJ round why would you have k_hit higher and ap lower? I'd put it back roughly to stock as below and make a new 5.56x45mm JSP round with your values.

k_dist = 1
k_disp = 1
k_hit = 1
k_impulse = 1
k_pierce = 0.6
k_ap = 0.6
impair = 1
buck_shot = 1
tracer = on
wm_size = 0.05
  11:55:02  9 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Look up the SS109*(yeah I do that some times...I'm a 5.7 fanboy) It may be a an FMJ but it was designed to fragment on impact. So the effect you get is drastically reduced AP but it caused severe tissue damage to unarmored targets.

"The 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge with the standard military ball bullet (NATO: SS109; U.S.: M855) will penetrate approximately 15 to 20 inches (38 to 50 cm) into soft tissue in ideal circumstances. As with all spitzer shaped projectiles it is prone to yaw in soft tissue. However, at impact velocities above roughly 2,700 ft/s (820 m/s), it may yaw and then fragment at the cannelure (the groove around the cylinder of the bullet). These fragments can disperse through flesh and bone, inflicting additional internal injuries.[1] Fragmentation, if and when it occurs, seems to impart much greater damage to tissue than bullet dimensions and velocities would suggest. This fragmentation effect is highly dependent on velocity, and therefore barrel length: short-barreled rifles generate less muzzle velocity and therefore rounds lose effectiveness at much shorter ranges than longer-barreled rifles." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS109


Gatta love wiki
  13:03:34  9 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
Messages: 43
Yep I know about the fragmentation but thats highly dependant on impact Velocity as you say. Also the round doesn't fragment on impact it does so INSIDE the target provided its going fast enough (see the link for a ballistic gelatin track) it will still penetrate armour alot more then you are allowing for. The fragmentation is also not entirely reliable either compared to expanding ammo expanding.

http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror_files/77grMKing.jpg

Great site for info on 5.56mm
http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror.htm
  14:46:39  9 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Your right, 5.56s(M193 or 855) have very good soft body and steel penetration, but vs. body armor they are of no comparison to the Russian 5.45 7n6 FMJBT ammunition. Were as 5.56 can barely fight its way through level 2 body armor, 5.45 has no trouble with it and only really meets resistance at level 3. The effect is that the 5.56 meet enough resistance in the body armor that it causes it to fragment early.

Also, expansive ammo is all but useless vs body armor. However, they would make a very nice mutant hunting round. Hehe, nothing like a full-auto varmint rifle.
  17:47:26  9 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
Messages: 21

---QUOTATION---
Your right, 5.56s(M193 or 855) have very good soft body and steel penetration, but vs. body armor they are of no comparison to the Russian 5.45 7n6 FMJBT ammunition. Were as 5.56 can barely fight its way through level 2 body armor, 5.45 has no trouble with it and only really meets resistance at level 3. The effect is that the 5.56 meet enough resistance in the body armor that it causes it to fragment early.

Also, expansive ammo is all but useless vs body armor. However, they would make a very nice mutant hunting round. Hehe, nothing like a full-auto varmint rifle.
---END QUOTATION---




Not true. both 5.56 rounds are able to penetrate Level III armors. M855 has steel penetrator in side lead bullet which provide enhanced penetration - in tests is is able to outperform 7.62x51 M80 projectile practically in every range. M193 without penetrator with plain lead bullet is able to penetrate same amount of armor like M855 but only at short distances (practically it outperform M855 at short distances), at longer ranges M855 has more energy and because of steel penetrator it penetrate more.

Standard Rusian 5.45x39 is nowhere close to 5.56x45 rounds, Check their impact energy - 5.56x45 is 1600-1900J capable, 5.45x39 is capable 1200-1400J. For comparation 7.62x39 is 1900-2100J capable and 7.62x51 2500-3200J. Overally M855 is a decent projectile, but it has problems with shorter barrels - 5.56x45 are hipervelocity projectiles - they require high speed to work as they were designed to - if muzzle velocity is below 850m/s, 5.56x45 projectile effectivity is reduced and it wil not fragment after impact (inside of body) THat is a reason why M4A1 in Iraq were found inadequate - they barrels are just 14" and with M855 they were not able to make projectile fragment reliably - marines using M16A4 with 20" barrels had no such issues.

difference between 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 is in its function - 5.56x45 is a hipervelocity fragmentation round, and 5.45x39 is a hipervelocity Tumbling round - 5.45x39 was not designed to fragment and it never does so, instead it had a hollow tip to produce tumbling effect after impact - for example 7.62x39 round tumbled only after 40-50cm penetration into flesh, which often ment that target was penetrated without significat damage. Designers therefore aimed at improved tumbling effect with 5.45x39 - it is able to tumble after penetrating 20-30cm into flesh producing slightly larger wounding channel than 7.62x39 round!!!

Anyway - major dissadvantage of hipervelocity rounds is that they are not good cover penetrators - with 7.62x39 you can shoot through trees,doors etc - with 5.56 or 5.45 its not possible. That is one of the reasons why some soldiers prefer 7.62x39 over 5.45x39, but when human target came into equation - 5.45x39 performs better.
  17:50:58  9 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
Messages: 21

---QUOTATION---
Your right, 5.56s(M193 or 855) have very good soft body and steel penetration, but vs. body armor they are of no comparison to the Russian 5.45 7n6 FMJBT ammunition. Were as 5.56 can barely fight its way through level 2 body armor, 5.45 has no trouble with it and only really meets resistance at level 3. The effect is that the 5.56 meet enough resistance in the body armor that it causes it to fragment early.

Also, expansive ammo is all but useless vs body armor. However, they would make a very nice mutant hunting round. Hehe, nothing like a full-auto varmint rifle.


Not true. both 5.56 rounds are able to penetrate Level III armors. M855 has steel penetrator in side lead bullet which provide enhanced penetration - in tests is is able to outperform 7.62x51 M80 projectile practically in every range. M193 without penetrator with plain lead bullet is able to penetrate same amount of armor like M855 but only at short distances (practically it outperform M855 at short distances), at longer ranges M855 has more energy and because of steel penetrator it penetrate more.

Standard Rusian 5.45x39 is nowhere close to 5.56x45 rounds, Check their impact energy - 5.56x45 is 1600-1900J capable, 5.45x39 is capable 1200-1400J. For comparation 7.62x39 is 1900-2100J capable and 7.62x51 2500-3200J. Overally M855 is a decent projectile, but it has problems with shorter barrels - 5.56x45 are hipervelocity projectiles - they require high speed to work as they were designed to - if muzzle velocity is below 850m/s, 5.56x45 projectile effectivity is reduced and it wil not fragment after impact (inside of body) THat is a reason why M4A1 in Iraq were found inadequate - they barrels are just 14" and with M855 they were not able to make projectile fragment reliably - marines using M16A4 with 20" barrels had no such issues.

difference between 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 is in its function - 5.56x45 is a hipervelocity fragmentation round, and 5.45x39 is a hipervelocity Tumbling round - 5.45x39 was not designed to fragment and it never does so, instead it had a hollow tip to produce tumbling effect after impact - for example 7.62x39 round tumbled only after 40-50cm penetration into flesh, which often ment that target was penetrated without significat damage. Designers therefore aimed at improved tumbling effect with 5.45x39 - it is able to tumble after penetrating 20-30cm into flesh producing slightly larger wounding channel than 7.62x39 round!!!

Anyway - major dissadvantage of hipervelocity rounds is that they are not good cover penetrators - with 7.62x39 you can shoot through trees,doors etc - with 5.56 or 5.45 its not possible. That is one of the reasons why some soldiers prefer 7.62x39 over 5.45x39, but when human target came into equation - 5.45x39 performs better.
---END QUOTATION---




actually - LEVEL II protection wont protect against 9mm... Level IIIA is able to stop 9mm,45cal, and practically any pistol round (except .44). Level III is able to protect against rifle rounds (to some extent) and Level IV is able to stop medium machine gun projecties (7.62x51,7.62x54R or 7.62x61)

Regarding Level III protection - its requirements says that armor must protest against 5 hits, there is no armor that would absorb more.
  20:09:27  9 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
Elementlmage
11/09/2008 20:11:59
Messages: 258
Wow, where do you get you facts from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abd9bpvd6zY

Level 3 body armor test vs. 5.56(doesnt specify 193 or 855) The plate takes 63 rounds before penetration occurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_vest

Level 2 will protect against 9mm, but not HV 9mm.

What do you consider to be standard Russian 5.45 ammo? The 5n7s? Those where phased out in the late 80's
The new 7n6 rounds are easily on par with the 5.56 and b/c of their better ballistic coefficient retain their energy much better over long flight distances. Not to mention they have a real penetrater core, not that sharped cap at the base of the SS109 FN calls a penetrater.

Were did you get your info that the 5.45x39 doesnt tumble till 20cm. This medical report suggests otherwise. Ah Bosnia, only then did we decide to care about ethnic cleansing...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_200112/ai_n9010648

8cm, you will also notice that there is not much of a wound profile. However, you also see that 6 (6 or 8 i forget which) of the rounds do not exit out of the back face of the gel like "normal" terminal models. Once they initiate their first tumble at 8 cm decide they don't want to go straight and pick a random direction. This is were most of the damage occurs, not from temporary cavitation but from the tendency of the rounds to change direction and elongate their wound tracks(hopefully through a major organ )

WTF is a 7.62x61? I assume you mean 7.92x61, in which milspec variant is no longer produced...although the Mauser k98 does supposedly make a great hunting rifle


---QUOTATION---
THat is a reason why M4A1 in Iraq were found inadequate - they barrels are just 14" and with M855 they were not able to make projectile fragment reliably - marines using M16A4 with 20" barrels had no such issues.
---END QUOTATION---



Which is one of the reasons the 5.56 is being phased out... it sucks. They are replacing it with the vastly superior 6.8 round and are currently testing service rifles to use the new round. I think Barrett and H&K each have one in the running for the standard service rifle and FN already has the wink from the SpecOps boys for a 6.8 variant of the SCAR.

M193 rounds hit from 1600-1700j, the M855 tends to have slightly more energy coming in at 1700-1775. Were as the 7n6 round only manages to get 1400-1425j, but they retain their energy AND wound potential over longer ranges. We all know that muzzle energy is not everything. Hell even the Chinese were impressed by the 7n6:


---QUOTATION---
This was verified in the livestock testing performed by the Chinese. Here the 5.45 7N6 load showed what it was designed to do and produced significantly larger wounds than either the 5.56 SS109 or the 5.8x42. However the range here was short, only 90m. While the Chinese were impressed by, and commented on the tremendous close range wound capacity of the 5.45 7N6 loading they also stated that by 600m its accuracy, penetration, and wound capability had dropped off significantly due to its lightweight 52 grain projectile. However they also felt the 5.45x39 to be a very economical cartridge to manufacture. The Chinese were impressed by the 5.56x45 SS109 and felt that it was effective up to 600m. However they felt that it had the disadvantages of high chamber pressures and because it utilized brass cartridge cases was not economical to produce.
---END QUOTATION---

-http://www.snipersparadise.com/articles/chinacomplex.htm

I tried to find ballistics info on the 7n6, but this is the best that I could come up with. Most of the info I found is about or based on the 5n7.


However, we can argue all day long about the superiority of the 7n6 vs M855. I have settled on the notion that the 7n6 has better AP potential than the M855 and has better wound potential at longer ranges. The M855 has better wound potential at closer ranges and tends to be more accurate at long range due to its higher weight and initial energy.
  23:47:28  9 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20

---QUOTATION---

What do you consider to be standard Russian 5.45 ammo? The 5n7s? Those where phased out in the late 80's
The new 7n6 rounds are easily on par with the 5.56 and b/c of their better ballistic coefficient retain their energy much better over long flight distances. Not to mention they have a real penetrater core, not that sharped cap at the base of the SS109 FN calls a penetrater.

---END QUOTATION---



That just gave me an idea... since most of the stalkers would probably be using black market surplus ammo or stuff dug up in the garbage... Maybe you should issue 5n7s to the Stalkers and the more modern round exclusively to the Ukrainian military forces.
  02:34:34  10 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Good idea, I have actually been thinking about adding in 7n24 rounds just have some bitchin' Russian engineering in the game. Is it just me or does the thought of a sharpened tungsten-carbide penetrater core.... you get the idea.

But yeah, have like 5n7, 7n6, 7n22, and 7n24 (7n10 and 20 never saw wide spread use)

Also, if I happen to get some cash, all this research has shown me that I can get a rather good Easter-bloc stockpile for under a grand! I'm thinking Vepr IIK and 1080 rounds of 7n6!!!
  11:15:51  10 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20

---QUOTATION---
Good idea, I have actually been thinking about adding in 7n24 rounds just have some bitchin' Russian engineering in the game. Is it just me or does the thought of a sharpened tungsten-carbide penetrater core.... you get the idea.

But yeah, have like 5n7, 7n6, 7n22, and 7n24 (7n10 and 20 never saw wide spread use)

Also, if I happen to get some cash, all this research has shown me that I can get a rather good Easter-bloc stockpile for under a grand! I'm thinking Vepr IIK and 1080 rounds of 7n6!!!
---END QUOTATION---



The more I think about it some of the high end weapons in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. don't make much sense... The Groza, VSS Vintorez, and AS Val are exclusively issued to Russian Federation Spetz Natz. The military you encounter in Stalker are all Ukrainian Spetz Natz... How are these guys getting these guns? I'd almost expect the Ukrainian Spetz Natz to be using NATO converted weapons considering how buddy buddy they've been to NATO. It makes me wonder if Dolg or Monolith are being covertly supported by the Russian Federation.

Right now I've basically decided to dial back the presence of these weapons with the possible exception of monolith (Wierd fact... The Russo-Ukrainian border runs through the zone and Ukraine violated russian territorial integrity when it rushed to the center in SHOC). Thats really easy considering how I've got the equipment selection of all the characters as being probability based at the moment.

Does anyone know how the Ukrainian Spetz Natz are currently equipped? Do they use Grozas or are they still primarily users of the silenced AKs?

Anyway, I'm adding a wide variety of weapons and ammo... foremost among them being a long list Saiga carbines using different skins to the AK model. I've got multiple versions of the Saiga 7.62x39, 223, and 308 variants in game already (The 308 is a blast when you pick one up). Makes for a much more immersive experience when STALKERs tend to use semi-automatic civilian versions of the AK. (Personally I prefer using the civilian variants in the game. I tend to get excited with a full auto and spray rounds... and quickly burn through all my scavenged ammo).
  14:25:27  10 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Nope, Ukrainian forces still primarily use Eastern-bloc firearms. As all of the fire arms used just mentioned are pre-1991 I would most certainly expect them to be present in the zone. You can even get a VSS here in the states if you find a dealer with connections to eastern Europe.

Also, Chernobyl is on the border of Belarus, not Russia. See as how there was no counter invasion, I don't think they cared.
  00:56:31  11 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20

---QUOTATION---
Nope, Ukrainian forces still primarily use Eastern-bloc firearms. As all of the fire arms used just mentioned are pre-1991 I would most certainly expect them to be present in the zone. You can even get a VSS here in the states if you find a dealer with connections to eastern Europe.

Also, Chernobyl is on the border of Belarus, not Russia. See as how there was no counter invasion, I don't think they cared.
---END QUOTATION---



You're right about the VSS and Val, but the Groza was introduced in 1994 so it's probably not used by the Ukrainian Spetz Natz. I didn't know you could get a VSS or Val in the states... damn, I'll have to up their availability. Any idea how much it costs to buy one?
  01:47:46  11 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Well, I didn't say they were wide spread, it IS possible, but you do need a dealer with east-bloc connections. Also, considering they are full auto, probably at least 10k, plus 200 bucks for ATF registration. DAMN YOU FDR!

lol j/k


Anyway, I have just finished up re-writing the upgrade tables. Thought it would also be a good excuse to show off my station:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g207/ElementlMage/atwork.jpg

I am well on my way to being able to push out the latest version this week. Wish me luck...
  02:33:35  11 November 2008
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Catsy
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/10/2008
 

Message edited by:
Catsy
11/11/2008 2:37:30
Messages: 259

---QUOTATION---
Anyway, I have just finished up re-writing the upgrade tables. Thought it would also be a good excuse to show off my station:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g207/ElementlMage/atwork.jpg
---END QUOTATION---



Cute kid. Yours?

Looking forward to this. I'm kinda nearing the end of my enthusiasm for fucking around with CS weapon modding, so it'll be nice to play with yours and Vandal's for a bit.

Also, this:


---QUOTATION---
Good idea, I have actually been thinking about adding in 7n24 rounds just have some bitchin' Russian engineering in the game.
---END QUOTATION---



Is a good idea. Issuing different, arguably more effective ammo to the military (and probably Duty to a lesser extent, since they seem to have some really good connections) would give the player a good reason to fight them once he's better-equipped, to collect the nice ammo they'd drop. The flip side would be that doing so would be /dangerous/.
  03:12:47  11 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20
Yeah thats a good point. Though he'll have to edit the death drop tables and all that... It's a pain once you add ammo and weapons to add drops for when you kill the enemy.

Right now I've just realized that I'm going to have to add a bunch more ammo types to my game. Including stuff like the 8mm Mauser and all that. Just because I've started adding Yugo weapons and some other form warsaw pact nation's small arms.

I've got the Yugo M91 Sniper Rifle in game, and I personally prefer it over the SVD, its less accurate but has a better scope and is more reliable (It uses the AK action). I'll be adding the Yugo M76 Sniper Rifle when I've added the 8mm mauser. I'm also thinking about adding faction specific weapons, like the TOZ-34 "Digger Special" where a TOZ has been converted to fire the 14.5 KPVT Cannon round (I wonder how many of those rounds are stored on the BTRs that are lieing around the garbage) for the loners, and the CSR-94 "Gravi" Assault Rifle (An AN-94 that uses 9x39 ammo and a gravi artifact in the chamber to effectively negate the mass of the round and increase its muzzle velocity) for clear sky.

Damn... 10K plus for a groza in the states, makes sense though. It also will give you a hint as to the price of one in the zone. 1 dollar roughly equals 25 rubles... ouch.
  03:48:26  11 November 2008
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wolfstriked
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/02/2008
Messages: 283
Love this mod!!

Question,is the MP5 really cause more damage than an AK74?
  13:47:21  11 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
Elementlmage
11/11/2008 13:55:39
Messages: 258

---QUOTATION---
Cute kid. Yours?
---END QUOTATION---



Me at age three.


;;;

Ya, the more I find going on under the surface the more I wanna change stuff. I think for this upcoming release I am going to test out the upgrades and get nade sights re-aligned and call it .5. For .6 definitely new ammo types and loot drops and probably add in k_air_resistance to all the ammo.

Rouge: 14.5 FTMFW!!! That crap face palmed German tanks in WWII.


Wolf:


---QUOTATION---
Question,is the MP5 really cause more damage than an AK74?
---END QUOTATION---



Are you referring to IRL or in my mod? B/c in my mod, the MP5 is in no way more powerful than the AK-74. Now, that being said, if you are playing it on 1.05 or later GSC overhauled the damage models. That mod was made on 1.04, so I had no idea my mod would end up like anything you have undoubtedly seen. The good news is that I have rebalanced all of the damage and combat is now sexier than ever, so GSC can't keep me down for ever.


Anyone else think it's strange that 3 days after I publish my theoretical damage model on the forums GSC changes it?
  17:56:57  11 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
Messages: 21

---QUOTATION---
Wow, where do you get you facts from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abd9bpvd6zY

Level 3 body armor test vs. 5.56(doesnt specify 193 or 855) The plate takes 63 rounds before penetration occurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_vest

Level 2 will protect against 9mm, but not HV 9mm.

What do you consider to be standard Russian 5.45 ammo? The 5n7s? Those where phased out in the late 80's
The new 7n6 rounds are easily on par with the 5.56 and b/c of their better ballistic coefficient retain their energy much better over long flight distances. Not to mention they have a real penetrater core, not that sharped cap at the base of the SS109 FN calls a penetrater.

Were did you get your info that the 5.45x39 doesnt tumble till 20cm. This medical report suggests otherwise. Ah Bosnia, only then did we decide to care about ethnic cleansing...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_200112/ai_n9010648

8cm, you will also notice that there is not much of a wound profile. However, you also see that 6 (6 or 8 i forget which) of the rounds do not exit out of the back face of the gel like "normal" terminal models. Once they initiate their first tumble at 8 cm decide they don't want to go straight and pick a random direction. This is were most of the damage occurs, not from temporary cavitation but from the tendency of the rounds to change direction and elongate their wound tracks(hopefully through a major organ )

WTF is a 7.62x61? I assume you mean 7.92x61, in which milspec variant is no longer produced...although the Mauser k98 does supposedly make a great hunting rifle

THat is a reason why M4A1 in Iraq were found inadequate - they barrels are just 14" and with M855 they were not able to make projectile fragment reliably - marines using M16A4 with 20" barrels had no such issues.

Which is one of the reasons the 5.56 is being phased out... it sucks. They are replacing it with the vastly superior 6.8 round and are currently testing service rifles to use the new round. I think Barrett and H&K each have one in the running for the standard service rifle and FN already has the wink from the SpecOps boys for a 6.8 variant of the SCAR.

M193 rounds hit from 1600-1700j, the M855 tends to have slightly more energy coming in at 1700-1775. Were as the 7n6 round only manages to get 1400-1425j, but they retain their energy AND wound potential over longer ranges. We all know that muzzle energy is not everything. Hell even the Chinese were impressed by the 7n6:

This was verified in the livestock testing performed by the Chinese. Here the 5.45 7N6 load showed what it was designed to do and produced significantly larger wounds than either the 5.56 SS109 or the 5.8x42. However the range here was short, only 90m. While the Chinese were impressed by, and commented on the tremendous close range wound capacity of the 5.45 7N6 loading they also stated that by 600m its accuracy, penetration, and wound capability had dropped off significantly due to its lightweight 52 grain projectile. However they also felt the 5.45x39 to be a very economical cartridge to manufacture. The Chinese were impressed by the 5.56x45 SS109 and felt that it was effective up to 600m. However they felt that it had the disadvantages of high chamber pressures and because it utilized brass cartridge cases was not economical to produce.-http://www.snipersparadise.com/articles/chinacomplex.htm

I tried to find ballistics info on the 7n6, but this is the best that I could come up with. Most of the info I found is about or based on the 5n7.


However, we can argue all day long about the superiority of the 7n6 vs M855. I have settled on the notion that the 7n6 has better AP potential than the M855 and has better wound potential at longer ranges. The M855 has better wound potential at closer ranges and tends to be more accurate at long range due to its higher weight and initial energy.
---END QUOTATION---




that youtube video displays new Level IV plates. There is no way Level III plate would stop 63 shots. Even Army requirement says about resistance against 5 shots. SAPI plates used in Iraq had no problem stopping 7.62x39 even at point blank range which has a vastly supperior penetration in comparation to 5.45x39.

Regarding M855 you have to differentiate between SS109 and US M855. M855 has a hardened steel core penetrator not a cap. With M16A4 is produces 1800J and reliably fragment at 200m. Balistically is 5.56x45 more efficient than 5.45x39 just do the math - it is longer heavier projectile with higer muzzle energy.

5.56 doesnt suck, its even more ffective against unprotected targets than 7.62x51. As I mentioned earlier, problem is in too high popularity of shortened weapons - those weapons are not able to produce enough of energy for bullet to reliably fragment. Anything with barrell larger than 15" is OK.
  18:08:01  11 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
 

Message edited by:
JaM1977
11/11/2008 18:16:34
Messages: 21
and btw, there is no way a 5.45x39 52gr. bullet would outperform 68gr. 5.56x45 in anything. Balistics is a exact science - there are physical rules that apply - projectile with greater mass, weight, speed and higher L/D will penetrate more. The only way how that would be possible is with Tungsten penetrator, but then it is unfair to compare lead/steel projectile with tungsten one - For 5.56x45 there is M996 with tungsten penetrator. And that projectile can penetrate almost anything... (except Level IV plates)
  18:11:08  11 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
Messages: 21
7.62x61 is original WW2 US round used in machine guns - today it is used in balistic testing as a Top level projectile - Level IV protection must be able to protect against 5 hits from 7.62x61 API - that would simulate any medium caliber round with energy up to about 4000J
  18:15:24  11 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
 

Message edited by:
JaM1977
11/11/2008 18:22:07
Messages: 21
5.56 is not being phased out - instead Remington 6.8 lost in battlefield tests against several 5.56 projectiles. Therefore there will be no replacement - instead 72gr M262 Mod1 (Match quality) projectile and new "Brown" 5.56x45 78gr. ammo would be used. M262 is probably the best 5.56 projectile with improved accuracy and originally was developed as a sniper round! SF used it with big sucess even with short HK416. New "Brown" ammo is cheaper version of M262 ammo.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20080516.aspx

very good source about 5.56 ammo was http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm but i'm affraid that webpage was removed. (but i probably have a copy somewhere...)
  19:38:13  11 November 2008
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wolfstriked
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/02/2008
Messages: 283

---QUOTATION---

Wolf:

Question,is the MP5 really cause more damage than an AK74?

Are you referring to IRL or in my mod? B/c in my mod, the MP5 is in no way more powerful than the AK-74. Now, that being said, if you are playing it on 1.05 or later GSC overhauled the damage models. That mod was made on 1.04, so I had no idea my mod would end up like anything you have undoubtedly seen. The good news is that I have rebalanced all of the damage and combat is now sexier than ever, so GSC can't keep me down for ever.


Anyone else think it's strange that 3 days after I publish my theoretical damage model on the forums GSC changes it?
---END QUOTATION---



LMAO,u made my day!!Combat is now sexier than ever

Cant wait for next version.I have no idea about guns so I go with what I would imagine to be real.Right now I only can comment on the hunting rifle/shotgun/AK-74/MP5/makarov and the fort-12.I go point blank against a wall and fire then move away and look at wallmarks.Your mod feels real.I guess sexy is a dam good word for it

I ask about the MP5 compared to AK74 due to what the green lines info shows.In my game it shows the MP5 has more accuracy and more damage than AK74.Yet in game MP5 has more accuracy but AK74 has a BIT more stopping power.

Will the green lines ever work right in this game...........AND IF NOT...would it be possible to remove them and just state damage/velocity/dispersion rate at 10 meters.


Comment....

The shotgun accuracy changes when crouching or ironsighting.When shooting buckshot,it seems silly to be able to aim the dispersion for a closer grouping.

Question...did you change the character animations??Last night my allies were laying down behind rocks for cover.Never saw that before.Then an enemy looks as though he ran out of ammo and ran around a corner away from me.When I pursued the enemy leans back against wall and flicks just the gun around the corner and fires away
  20:19:40  11 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Strielitz is going to be all over your ass! You might want to consolidate your posts.


---QUOTATION---
that youtube video displays new Level IV plates
---END QUOTATION---



Which is why the nice government video specifically states that it's level 3...


---QUOTATION---
...had no problem stopping 7.62x39 even at point blank range which has a vastly superior penetration in comparison to 5.45x39...
---END QUOTATION---



Again, you are referring to 5n7 rounds not 7n6. 7n6 rounds have a penetrator core that makes them far more effective vs. body armor than either 7.62x39 or 5.45 5n7 rounds.


---QUOTATION---
Regarding M855 you have to differentiate between SS109 and US M855. M855 has a hardened steel core penetrator not a cap.
---END QUOTATION---



Wow, that one made me lol. The are the EXACT same bullet(notice I said bullet.) The SS109 bullet is used in both the SS109 and the m855. The only difference is that the SS109 has a lower powder load to keep from damaging the Brit's L85s.


---QUOTATION---
Balistically is 5.56x45 more efficient than 5.45x39 just do the math - it is longer heavier projectile with higer muzzle energy
---END QUOTATION---



You are right, BALLISTICALLY the 5.56 outperforms the 5.45 7n6...only b/c it is 10 grains heavier. The 5.45 is actually a couple of millimeters longer and it has a far more streamlined shape. However, in terms of stopping power, the M855 rapidly losses terminal performance as it falls below 1000m/s (considering the Sig 550 has the highest muzzle velocity in stalker @ 980)

http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror_files/wund5.jpg

However, the 7n6 is not nearly as velocity dependent as the M855. So even though b/c of its weight, its performance degrades faster, it still has quite a bit of stopping power out beyond the 200m boundary.


---QUOTATION---
7.62x61
---END QUOTATION---



Dude, just say .30-06. Not even the military says 7.62x61. Also, no US MG has ever used .30-06, the BAR did, but our MGs have only ever used .308 and .50 BMG.


---QUOTATION---
5.56 doesn't suck
---END QUOTATION---



I never said it sucked; did you ever see me say it sucked? It's major flaw is just that below 1000 m/s it rapidly losses effectiveness and below 900 m/s and is rapidly approaching its icepick phase.


---QUOTATION---
and btw, there is no way a 5.45x39 52gr. bullet would outperform 62gr. 5.56x45 in anything
---END QUOTATION---



I fixed it for you


---QUOTATION---
For 5.56x45 there is M995 with tungsten penetrator
---END QUOTATION---



That one too... unless you were intentionally referring to the tracer variant of the M995.
  20:59:48  11 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258

---QUOTATION---


I ask about the MP5 compared to AK74 due to what the green lines info shows.In my game it shows the MP5 has more accuracy and more damage than AK74.Yet in game MP5 has more accuracy but AK74 has a BIT more stopping power.

Will the green lines ever work right in this game...........AND IF NOT...would it be possible to remove them and just state damage/velocity/dispersion rate at 10 meters.


Comment....

The shotgun accuracy changes when crouching or ironsighting.When shooting buckshot,it seems silly to be able to aim the dispersion for a closer grouping.

Question...did you change the character animations??Last night my allies were laying down behind rocks for cover.Never saw that before.Then an enemy looks as though he ran out of ammo and ran around a corner away from me.When I pursued the enemy leans back against wall and flicks just the gun around the corner and fires away
---END QUOTATION---




Let me start be explaining what usually passes for shotgun acc.

Most games use one of three acc. models for shotguns. The most appropriate model is to have a set cluster size that is independent of the acc of the weapon. This way, the shotgun has its own acc. that propels the cluster in the direction it is facing. I have only seen one game EVER that has ever done it this way, Rainbow 6 (1). Red Storm was one of the best developers ever, and rightfully deserve to still be one of the best. Unfortunately they were swallowed up by Ubi in the late 90's.

The most popular model(popular meaning lazy) is to give the shotgun and cluster a fixed acc. So, no matter whether you are prone with your shotty resting on top of a rock or falling off a cliff sideways to your doom it will always have the same acc.

GCS's model (and some other devs) is to have the cluster be dependent on the acc of the weapon. Although not wholly realistic, if you use you imagination(I wish there were a rainbow smiley ) it is kind of like Red Storms model.

;;;;;

No I did not change the char anims, that is all GSCs handy work.

;;;;;

What you are seeing with the green bars is the weapons damage. There is totally separate calculation that goes on once bullet enter the frame. Pistols/SMG and ARs/Snipers are two totally different levels of damage. The way it is set up is that Pistol and SMG damage is relative to other Pistols and SMGs, where as ARs and Snipers are a whole new ball game. Any AR you find will hands down outperform any SMG in this game.
  21:42:39  11 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
Messages: 21

---QUOTATION---
Strielitz is going to be all over your ass! You might want to consolidate your posts.

that youtube video displays new Level IV plates

Which is why the nice government video specifically states that it's level 3...

...had no problem stopping 7.62x39 even at point blank range which has a vastly superior penetration in comparison to 5.45x39...

Again, you are referring to 5n7 rounds not 7n6. 7n6 rounds have a penetrator core that makes them far more effective vs. body armor than either 7.62x39 or 5.45 5n7 rounds.

Regarding M855 you have to differentiate between SS109 and US M855. M855 has a hardened steel core penetrator not a cap.

Wow, that one made me lol. The are the EXACT same bullet(notice I said bullet.) The SS109 bullet is used in both the SS109 and the m855. The only difference is that the SS109 has a lower powder load to keep from damaging the Brit's L85s.

Balistically is 5.56x45 more efficient than 5.45x39 just do the math - it is longer heavier projectile with higer muzzle energy

You are right, BALLISTICALLY the 5.56 outperforms the 5.45 7n6...only b/c it is 10 grains heavier. The 5.45 is actually a couple of millimeters longer and it has a far more streamlined shape. However, in terms of stopping power, the M855 rapidly losses terminal performance as it falls below 1000m/s (considering the Sig 550 has the highest muzzle velocity in stalker @ 980)

http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror_files/wund5.jpg

However, the 7n6 is not nearly as velocity dependent as the M855. So even though b/c of its weight, its performance degrades faster, it still has quite a bit of stopping power out beyond the 200m boundary.

7.62x61

Dude, just say .30-06. Not even the military says 7.62x61. Also, no US MG has ever used .30-06, the BAR did, but our MGs have only ever used .308 and .50 BMG.

5.56 doesn't suck

I never said it sucked; did you ever see me say it sucked? It's major flaw is just that below 1000 m/s it rapidly losses effectiveness and below 900 m/s and is rapidly approaching its icepick phase.

and btw, there is no way a 5.45x39 52gr. bullet would outperform 62gr. 5.56x45 in anything

I fixed it for you

For 5.56x45 there is M995 with tungsten penetrator

That one too... unless you were intentionally referring to the tracer variant of the M995.
---END QUOTATION---



SS109 and M855 are not the same. They were in the begining, now the difference is much biger - If you ever wanted to use 5.56 ammo, you always want to go with best quality ammo - M855 has much higher quality requirements than SS109.

Another thing - 5.56 ammo doesnt have problems at 900m/s - it has problems if speed is below 800m/s. M16A4 or L85A2 with 20" barrel, G-36 with 18" barrel they all have no problem with 5.56 round,because their muzzle velocity is much higher (900-950m/s) and they approach 800m/s barrier only at ranges over 300m, which is acceptable. Shorter carbines like M4A1 with 14" have muzzle velocity around 900-850m/s, so they have issues at ranges greater than 150m, carbines with even shorter barrel (10" of G-36C, SiG552 or M4 Commando) are with muzzle speed exactly at 800m/s barrier, so they will have performance issues at medium ranges. Even then, hit from 5.56 round at short distance is very lethal - projectile wil not fragment but will tumble very quickly.

Anyway, we are forgeting one major thing why low caliber hipervelocity rounds were selected over large caliber rounds - recoil - 5.56x45 has 1.5x lower recoil than 7.62x39, and 7.62x39 has 2x lower recoil than 7.62x51. 5.45x39 has slightly lower recoil than 5.56x45 (10-15%). This makes 5.56(5.45) weapons much better controlable in short bursts at medium ranges (100-150m) and effectivly controlable in full auto at short distances (below 50-75m)

(sorry about those errors in numbers, i read a lot about balistics year or two ago,and looks like i forgot some things...)
  21:45:01  11 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
 

Message edited by:
JaM1977
11/11/2008 21:45:44
Messages: 21
oh, and regarding SiG550 - it doesnt use standard NATO 5.56 SS109. It use its own 5.6 ammo which is much more accurate and can be fired from all 5.56 rifles. and btw its muzzle velocity is around 945m/s. Only M192/3 were able to have muzzle velocity over 1000m/s when fired from 20" barrel...
  00:03:30  12 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
Elementlmage
11/12/2008 1:14:05
Messages: 258
Since you didn't look at it the first time I'll post the article:


---QUOTATION---
Testing by combat surgeon Col. Martin L. Fackler, MD (USA Medical Corps, retired), determined that M193 and M855 bullets need to strike flesh at 2,700 feet per second in order to reliably fragment. Between 2,500 fps and 2,700 fps, the bullet may or may not fragment and below 2,500 fps, no significant fragmentation is likely to occur. If there isn't enough velocity to cause fragmentation, the result is a deep, 22 caliber hole, except an area where the yawing occurred, where the diameter of the hole grows briefly to the length of the bullet.
---END QUOTATION---

-http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror.htm#m855zero

Muzzle velocities for all 5.56 rifles found in Stalker:

G36: 920 m/s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G36

Sig 550: 980 m/s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sig_550

You may also want to note that only the Swiss version shoots 5.6. The export versions are available in 5.56 with either 1:10 or 1:7 twist.

F2000: 900 m/s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F2000

LR 300: 950 m/s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LR_300

Distance for an M855 round traveling at 3100 f/s (~20in) to reach 2700 f/s:

150m

And for 3000 f/s (~16in):

90m


---QUOTATION---
SS109 and M855 are not the same. They were in the beginning, now the difference is much biger - If you ever wanted to use 5.56 ammo, you always want to go with best quality ammo - M855 has much higher quality requirements than SS109.
---END QUOTATION---



Which explains why the steel cap in the M855 tends to unbalance the the round.


---QUOTATION---
Q. What is SS-109? Is it the same as M855?

SS-109 is Fabrique Nationale's (FN's) name for their 61.5 grain bullet with the steel penetrator in the nose and what they call rounds loaded with this bullet. (FN calls M193-type ammo "SS-92." The US military's M855 round is loaded with the SS-109 bullet, though the US military has additional specifications that ammo must meet before it can be called M855. So, while all M855 is loaded with SS-109 bullets, all "SS-109 ammo" will not meet the M855 specs. For example, the British purposely underloaded some lots of their ammo in an effort to get their L85A1 (SA80) rifles to cycle properly. The ammo is still loaded with SS-109 bullets and labeled as SS-109, but it is nowhere near the M855 velocity specifications.
---END QUOTATION---

-http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror.htm#ss109

The projectile is the same, the completed bullet (projectile and casing) is different.


---QUOTATION---
Wow, that one made me lol. The are the EXACT same bullet(notice I said bullet.) The SS109 bullet is used in both the SS109 and the m855. The only difference is that the SS109 has a lower powder load to keep from damaging the Brit's L85s.
---END QUOTATION---



;;;;;;;;;


The 5.45(7n6) and 5.56 are both excellent rounds and each have their strong suits. The 5.56 in my mind is undoubtedly the superior close combat round. However, with most modern fire arms once get out beyond 100m they really start to lose their effectiveness.

I would love to see a comparison between the M855 the M995 and the 7n24. Mostly b/c although the 7n24 has it's weight increased it seems to improve its base velocity a little bit(most likely b/c of newer propellants). Since they would all be more or less 62 grains it would be interesting to see what their terminal and ballistic effects would be.



-Edit-

Adding nade sights back in is turning out to be a GIGANTIC bitch. I took me an hour just to get the widescreen sights aligned for the lr 300. So for now, that is getting put on the back burner. Right now I am testing the changes I made to the upgrades and making sure they are all working properly and then preparing the latest version for release.


-Edit--Edit-

Make no mistake Jam, I greatly enjoy these exchanges. Nothing is better for testing your knowledge than matching wits with someone else. Hmm, let me see if I can find a Steven Colbert pic...


Woot:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/wikiality/images/thumb/d/d6/RedTieBlueTieSideBySide.jpg/300px-RedTieBlueTieSideBySide.jpg


-Edit-Edit-Edit

Minor setback.... a 6 day demo for Left4Dead has just been released.
  01:11:16  12 November 2008
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wolfstriked
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/02/2008
Messages: 283
AK74 vs AK74U.....since the AK74U is lighter and shorter it should have more recoil.

cam_dispersion is .1 difference for the AK74....is that enuff?

Then cam_dispersion_inc is lower for the AK74U....should be opposite....as is now after first shot the AK74 has more recoil.

Is there something I can change to prevent the recoil being reset.If so,do you feel that its unrealistic and should be keptthe way it is now?

Keep it going!!!!
  01:19:14  12 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
Elementlmage
11/12/2008 1:20:41
Messages: 258
cam_relax_speed = 3.5


Set that to zero for both the normal and zoom_cam_relax_speed


Also, in this latest version, the U has a little bit more recoil. Not much though as both the 5.45 and 5.56 have very little kick.


-edit-

AGHHHH!!!! KMON!!!! 500KBps IS NOT FAST ENOUGH FOR THE GLORY THAT IS VALVE!!!!
  04:34:32  12 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
Messages: 43

---QUOTATION---

-Edit-

Adding nade sights back in is turning out to be a GIGANTIC bitch. I took me an hour just to get the widescreen sights aligned for the lr 300. So for now, that is getting put on the back burner. Right now I am testing the changes I made to the upgrades and making sure they are all working properly and then preparing the latest version for release.


---END QUOTATION---



Why can't you just copy the SOC settings??
  09:04:23  12 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
 

Message edited by:
JaM1977
11/12/2008 9:24:30
Messages: 21
there is no steel cap in M855, it has a steel core penetrator inside of projectile. Every bullet is build to be unstable and tends to fly with back first - thats why they are spin stabilized - air doesnt make enough of resistance to stop spining so they will fly normally,but immediatly when projectile strikes flesh, projectile spinning stops and it continue backwards producing tumbling effect.


http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror_files/m855.jpg

The only way how M855 would be unstable in the air is if you wire it from wifle with slow rifling like old M16A1 - those rifles are not able to stabilize M855 properly and have extremly poor accuracy with it - it is even notrecomended to use M855 with riflind below 1:10 - all US carbines and rifles have rifling 1:7.


Oh, one thing LR-300 has a short barrell - there is no way it could fire bullet at 950m/s with 292mm 11.5" barrell its muzzle velocity is barelly 900m/s more close to 860.

btw, would be great to have M262 Mod1 in game - is year 2011, so that ammo should be normally available but cost much more than standard issue ammo.(because it is a match quality)


here is a comparation table of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 rounds:
http://world.guns.ru/ammo/am05-e.htm
  10:59:53  12 November 2008
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marlin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/24/2008
Messages: 43

---QUOTATION---

LR 300: 950 m/s

---END QUOTATION---



That's actually 950rpm, which is quite a fire rate but the real muzzle velocity is well below 900m/s.

http://www.combatreform.com/21stcenturyrifle.htm

The main issue with the 5.56mm round is that it does not fragment RELIABLY even under ideal conditions which is why it is so maligned.
  12:10:51  12 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
 

Message edited by:
JaM1977
11/12/2008 13:53:26
Messages: 21

---QUOTATION---

LR 300: 950 m/s


That's actually 950rpm, which is quite a fire rate but the real muzzle velocity is well below 900m/s.

http://www.combatreform.com/21stcenturyrifle.htm

The main issue with the 5.56mm round is that it does not fragment RELIABLY even under ideal conditions which is why it is so maligned.
---END QUOTATION---




it is not a good thing to overgeneralize it. M855 was developed as a LMG round - because of steel core it is harder to make it fragment - there is smaller amount of lead and steel will hardly fragment at all. M193 is a totally different - it is lead round and with barrells longer than 14" it will fragment pretty reliably. And new heavier rounds like M262 or that new 72gr. brown tip ammo, they areeven much more lethal and fragment pretty reliably. Its pretty much question what you want to achieve - if you want good penetration at medium range, take M855. But if your enemy dont have armor at all, M192/193 or M262 would be much better.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ballistics.htm

also dont forget that even if M855 dont fragment that much, it will always tumble in flesh producing comparable wounding channels as any 5.45x39 round.
  17:37:53  12 November 2008
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Catsy
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/10/2008
Messages: 259
I love watching people argue over the merits and terminal ballistic performance of ammunition. It's like watching a Mac vs. PC argument.

Kidding aside, my research on the SG550 led me to this interesting article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

In reading around, it seems that there is a large secondary market for deactivated SIG 550s and SIG 510s (as well as the SIG P220 service pistols) due to the laws allowing those who have completed their required militia service to keep them by paying a small fee, and GP90 ammo is also readily available with almost no oversight or regulation of its sale.

Having no firsthand experience with this I can't speak to it one way or another, but it sounds like a plausible enough reason to have a more common variant of the SIG550 without selective fire (i.e. semi auto only) pop up in the Zone. Assuming fire select can be changed via upgrades, you could even have an upgrade option that allowed the player to have it converted back to selective fire, albeit perhaps with a drop in reliability.

Lot of assumptions here, but worth a thought anyway.
  13:43:03  13 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20

---QUOTATION---
I love watching people argue over the merits and terminal ballistic performance of ammunition. It's like watching a Mac vs. PC argument.

Kidding aside, my research on the SG550 led me to this interesting article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

In reading around, it seems that there is a large secondary market for deactivated SIG 550s and SIG 510s (as well as the SIG P220 service pistols) due to the laws allowing those who have completed their required militia service to keep them by paying a small fee, and GP90 ammo is also readily available with almost no oversight or regulation of its sale.

Having no firsthand experience with this I can't speak to it one way or another, but it sounds like a plausible enough reason to have a more common variant of the SIG550 without selective fire (i.e. semi auto only) pop up in the Zone. Assuming fire select can be changed via upgrades, you could even have an upgrade option that allowed the player to have it converted back to selective fire, albeit perhaps with a drop in reliability.

Lot of assumptions here, but worth a thought anyway.
---END QUOTATION---



Uh there's another reason for a semi-automatic version of the SIG 550 Assault Rifle to appear in the zone. SIG is now producing a civilian version for the general market. It's called the SIG 556 Carbine... Looks exactly the same as the 550 but is semi-auto only and tends to feature completely un-blued furnishings so its a shiny steel looking weapon compared to the rather dull one that we get with the game.
  14:22:31  13 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
Messages: 21

---QUOTATION---
I love watching people argue over the merits and terminal ballistic performance of ammunition. It's like watching a Mac vs. PC argument.

Kidding aside, my research on the SG550 led me to this interesting article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

In reading around, it seems that there is a large secondary market for deactivated SIG 550s and SIG 510s (as well as the SIG P220 service pistols) due to the laws allowing those who have completed their required militia service to keep them by paying a small fee, and GP90 ammo is also readily available with almost no oversight or regulation of its sale.

Having no firsthand experience with this I can't speak to it one way or another, but it sounds like a plausible enough reason to have a more common variant of the SIG550 without selective fire (i.e. semi auto only) pop up in the Zone. Assuming fire select can be changed via upgrades, you could even have an upgrade option that allowed the player to have it converted back to selective fire, albeit perhaps with a drop in reliability.

Lot of assumptions here, but worth a thought anyway.

Uh there's another reason for a semi-automatic version of the SIG 550 Assault Rifle to appear in the zone. SIG is now producing a civilian version for the general market. It's called the SIG 556 Carbine... Looks exactly the same as the 550 but is semi-auto only and tends to feature completely un-blued furnishings so its a shiny steel looking weapon compared to the rather dull one that we get with the game.
---END QUOTATION---




i'm more surpised we dont have more SMGs in game... like Ukrainian Goblin (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg43-e.htm) or Tasco ( http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg69-e.htm ) or Elf ( http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg42-e.htm ), Russian Kedr, Klin, Bison, Vytiaz...

and lets not forget about Saiga combat shotguns...
  11:30:31  14 November 2008
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JaM1977
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/24/2008
Messages: 21
Here are Ballistic protection classes:

Armor Level Protection
Type I
(.22 LR; .380 ACP) This armor would protect against 2.6 g (40 gr) .22 Long Rifle Lead Round Nose (LR LRN) bullets at a velocity of 329 m/s (1080 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 6.2 g (95 gr) .380 ACP Full Metal Jacketed Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets at a velocity of 322 m/s (1055 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It is no longer part of the standard.

Type IIA
(9 mm; .40 S&W) New armor protects against 8 g (124 gr) 9x19mm Parabellum Full Metal Jacketed Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets at a velocity of 373 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1225 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 11.7 g (180 gr) .40 S&W Full Metal Jacketed (FMJ) bullets at a velocity of 352 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1155 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). Conditioned armor protects against 8 g (124 gr) 9 mm FMJ RN bullets at a velocity of 355 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1165 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 11.7 g (180 gr) .40 S&W FMJ bullets at a velocity of 325 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1065 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides protection against the threats mentioned in [Type I].

Type II
(9 mm; .357 Magnum) New armor protects against 8 g (124 gr) 9 mm FMJ RN bullets at a velocity of 398 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1305 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 10.2 g (158 gr) .357 Magnum Jacketed Soft Point bullets at a velocity of 436 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1430 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). Conditioned armor protects against 8 g (124 gr) 9 mm FMJ RN bullets at a velocity of 379 m/s ±9.1 m/s (1245 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 10.2 g (158 gr) .357 Magnum Jacketed Soft Point bullets at a velocity of 408 m/s ±9.1 m/s (1340 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides protection against the threats mentioned in [Types I and IIA].

Type IIIA
(.357 Sig; .44 Magnum) New armor protects against 8.1 g (125 gr) .357 SIG FMJ Flat Nose (FN) bullets at a velocity of 448 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1470 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 15.6 g (240 gr) .44 Magnum Semi Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) bullets at a velocity of 436 m/s (1430 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). Conditioned armor protects against 8.1 g (125 gr) .357 SIG FMJ Flat Nose (FN) bullets at a velocity of 430 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1410 ft/s ± 30 ft/s) and 15.6 g (240 gr) .44 Magnum Semi Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) bullets at a velocity of 408 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (1340 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides protection against most handgun threats, as well as the threats mentioned in [Types I, IIA, and II].

Type III
(Rifles) Conditioned armor protects against 9.6 g (148 gr) 7.62x51mm NATO M80 ball bullets at a velocity of 847 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (2780 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides protection against the threats mentioned in [Types I, IIA, II, and IIIA].

Type IV
(Armor Piercing Rifle) Conditioned armor protects against 10.8 g (166 gr) .30-06 Springfield M2 armor piercing (AP) bullets at a velocity of 878 m/s ± 9.1 m/s (2880 ft/s ± 30 ft/s). It also provides at least single hit protection against the threats mentioned in [Types I, IIA, II, IIIA, and III].


As you can see, Level III should pretest against 7.62x51 M80 ball, so it will defeat any FMJ 5.56 or 5.45 ammo. Only exeption to this are specialized AP rounds like M995/996 or 5.45 7N22, but still their after-penetration damage potential would be significantly reduced. It is safe to assume LEVEL III should protect against anything with impact energy below 3000J.

and regarding that wideo with 63 hits, that plate is new type E-SAPI used currently in Iraq and Avghanistan.

that brings me to a question - is there any plans also bring Armors in game to real life protection levels?
  07:08:40  24 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Alright, now to blow the dust off this thread. Sorry about not keeping up with the epeen war(j/k), just haven't felt like dealing with anything stalker related lately... then I decided to do a complete rebuild of my computer; long story short it ended up taking three days. Anyway I'm back and v.5 has been posted to FF, just waiting on approval now.

Alright, now back to the fun!

Oh and thanks for noticing my lr300 slip up. Got the MV and RPM switched around

---QUOTATION---

LR 300: 950 m/s


That's actually 950rpm, which is quite a fire rate but the real muzzle velocity is well below 900m/s.

http://www.combatreform.com/21stcenturyrifle.htm

The main issue with the 5.56mm round is that it does not fragment RELIABLY even under ideal conditions which is why it is so maligned.


it is not a good thing to overgeneralize it. M855 was developed as a LMG round - because of steel core it is harder to make it fragment - there is smaller amount of lead and steel will hardly fragment at all. M193 is a totally different - it is lead round and with barrels longer than 14" it will fragment pretty reliably. And new heavier rounds like M262 or that new 72gr. brown tip ammo, they are even much more lethal and fragment pretty reliably. Its pretty much question what you want to achieve - if you want good penetration at medium range, take M855. But if your enemy doesn't have armor at all, M192/193 or M262 would be much better.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ballistics.htm

also dont forget that even if M855 dont fragment that much, it will always tumble in flesh producing comparable wounding channels as any 5.45x39 round.
---END QUOTATION---



Um no, the Fackler Ballistics Study showed conclusively that neither the M193 or M855 fragment reliably under 2700 m/s more so for the M855. Here is a pic of the M193 frag chart:

http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror_files/wund5.jpg

Anyway, you are correct about the 5.45 rounds...if the Russians still used 5n7s...which they don't. The new 7n6 rounds(standard issue) have a full AP core that, if it does not separate on contact with body armor, will separate from the jacket on either the first or second tumble creating three distinct wound channels. It performs similarly to to the M855 (minus the fragmentation), however, it is much less velocity dependent and will break open reliably at up to 300m.
  22:54:59  24 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
http://stalker.filefront.com/file/Ballistics_Mod;95897

Alright guys .5 is up. Here is the changes list. As always, have fun and happy stalking.


Version .5

WEEE, alright V.5, finally the long talked about version where I fix the upgrade system. And behold, it has been done.

Right now I am trying to write this readme as fast as possible because the Left4Dead demo has just been released. Wish me luck I am trying to beat the download time.

In the next version I plan on trying to incorporate one of those upgrade unlockers that will allow any mechanic to upgrade any weapon or armor.

Also, I would like to say thanks to Ceano for the use of his AI mod. Not only does it help to make the AI more realistic, it made my job easier after the 1.05 update changed the stalkers damage models.

----------------
Note:

This has been tested extensively on 1.05 and 1.07 and works it works fine for me.

On weapons that have had their stopping power reduced: I have done this to compensate for the differences in muzzle velocity. This only effects gameplay on occasion and is only really noticeable on fully upgraded weapons.
----------------
Version .5 Changes

-Added Ceano's Stalker CS AI fix

-Re-worked all of the upgrade values to fit with my mod, so now you can upgrade you guns. Finally something to spend you money on!
-Note, yes I understand the upgrades alter the weapons quite a bit. I consider the weapon upgrades to be an existential representation of your characters improved skills as well as improvements to the physical weapon.

-Increasing a weapons muzzle velocity(flatness) will now also improve its max range and stopping power. Inversely, increasing a weapons rate of fire will slightly reduce its stopping power.

-Improved the base accuracy of all the weapons in game by about 15-20 percent.

-Improved the feel of the recoil with most of the weapons and slightly tweaked a few of their iron sights.

-Added in grenade launcher ironsights to the LR300 and the OC-14 Groza. Then after realizing it took me two hours just to complete the widescreen sights, I set that project on the back burner.

-Changed Abakan base accuracy from .45 to .35
-increased cam_dispersion_inc to .3 from .2
-Abakan can now accept the grenade launcher by default; the upgrade path still remains, the cost has been reduced to 0 rb.

-Changed AK-74 base accuracy from .55 to .45
-increased cam_dispersion to .8 from .7
-decreased cam_dispersion_inc from .7 to .4
-increased zoom_cam_disp to .7 from .6
-decreased zoom_cam_disp_inc to .3 from .6
-decreased hit_power to .38 from .4

-Changed AK-74u base accuracy to .6 from .8
-decreased hit_power to .3 from .35

-Changed Beretta base accuracy to .55 from .65
-changed Beretta cam_disp to 1.0 from 0.8

-Changed Colt 1911 base accuracy to .4 from .5

-Changed Deagle base accuracy to .3 from .4
-increased hit_power to 1.0 from .7

-Changed F2000 base accuracy to .28 from .4
-decreased cam_disp to .05 from .1
-decreased cam_disp_inc to .1 from .15
-decreased zoom_cam_disp_inc to .08 from .1

-Changed Fort 12 base accuracy to .6 from .7
-increased cam_disp to .9 from .6

-Changed G36 base accuracy to .25 from .35
-increased cam_disp_inc to .3 from .2
-increased hit_power to .405 from .4

-Changed Groza base accuracy to .45 from .55
-decreased cam_disp to .5 from .6
-decreased cam_disp_inc to .5 from .6
-decreased zoom_cam_disp to .3 from .4
-decreased zoom_cam_disp_inc to .3 from .4

-Changed Browning HP base accuracy to .6 from .7
-increased cam_disp to 1.8 from .6
-increased cam_disp_inc to 1.2 from .6

-Changed L85 base accuracy to .3 from .5
-increased hit_power to .41 from .4

-Changed LR 300 base accuracy to .35 from .55
-decreased cam_disp to .15 from .2
-decreased cam_disp_inc to .15 from .2
-increased zoom_cam_disp to .12 from .1
-increased zoom_cam_disp_inc to .12 from .1
-increased hit_power to .4 from .35

-Changed MP5 base accuracy to .5 from .6

-Changed Makarov PB base accuracy to .4 from .5
-increased cam_disp to .8 from .3
-increased cam_disp_inc to .8 from .3

-Changed PKM cam_disp to 1.1 from .6
-increased cam_disp_inc to 1.5 from .9
-decreased PDM_disp_vel_factor to 2 from 2.45
-decreased PDM_disp_accel_factor to 2 from 2.45
-increased PDM_disp_crouch to 1 from .2
-increased PDM_crouch_no_acc to 1 from .2

-Changed Makarov PM base accuracy to .5 from .9

-Changed Sig 220 base accuracy to .4 from .5
-increased cam_disp to 1.5 from 1.2
-increased cam_disp_inc to 1.5 from 1.2

-Changed Sig 550 base accuracy to .25 from .35
-decreased cam_disp to .4 from .5
-decreased cam_disp_inc to .4 from .5
-decreased zoom_cam_disp to .35 from .4
-decreased zoom_cam_disp_inc to .35 from .4
-increased hit_power to .41 from .4

-Changed SVD base accuracy to .1 from .15
-decreased cam_disp to 2 from 2.5
-decreased cam_disp_inc to 2 from 2.5
-decreased zoom_cam_disp to 1.6 from 1.8
-decreased zoom_cam_disp_inc to 1.6 from 1.8

-Changed SVU base accuracy to .05 from .1
-decreased cam_disp to 1.8 from 2.5
-decreased cam_disp_inc to 1.8 from 2.5
-decreased zoom_cam_disp to 1.3 from 1.5
-decreased zoom_cam_disp_inc 1.3 to from 1.5
-increased hit_power to 1.0 from .9

-Changed H&K USP base accuracy to .45 from .55
-increased cam_disp to 1.3 from 1.0
-increased cam_disp_inc to 1.3 from 1.0

-Changed AS VAL base accuracy to .4 from .5
-decreased cam_disp to .4 from .45
-decreased cam_disp_inc to .4 from .45
-decreased zoom_cam_disp to .35 from .4
-decreased zoom_cam_disp_inc to .35 from .4

-Changed VSS hit_power changed to .4 from .35
-decreased cam_disp to .4 from .45
-decreased cam_disp_inc to .4 from .45
-decreased zoom_cam_disp to .35 from .4
-decreased zoom_cam_disp_inc to .35 from .4

-Changed Walther base accuracy to .5 from .8
-increased cam_disp to .8 from .5
-increased cam_disp_inc to .8 from .5


------------------------------------
Installation:



1. Place gamedata folder in X:\Program Files\Deep Silver\S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Clear Sky - X being the drive letter you installed it to.

2. Edit you fsgame.ltx file to force the game to use the files in the gamedata folder rather than the ones its has stored in the database files
Do this by editing the the $game_data$ line to read $game_data$ = true| true|
This way it will use any files found in the gamedata folder first and overlook those already present in the database.

Disclaimer:

I in no way guarantee that this mod will not void you save games or cause unforeseen errors. However, if it makes you feel any better, it works just fine on my PC and install.
  18:49:07  25 November 2008
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wolfstriked
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/02/2008
Messages: 283
Holy tweaks batman!!

Nice how you tweaked all the recoil settings as its not really been done yet in stalker.I think that this adds to individual gun feel.Now to play thru to get to see all the weapon differences.

One thing....just tested with vanilla and Makarov is like a laser.MP5 on the other hand is less accurate.I would think that anytime you extend the barrel you add velocity and accuracy.So in effect going from a pistol to a sub machine gun will net you more accuracy.Same with move up to assault rifle(not the AK74U) and then snipers.

-Changed MP5 base accuracy to .5 from .6

-Changed Makarov PB base accuracy to .4 from .5

I see that you leave bullets at 1.0 dispersion so its purely the gun.Is this how you wanted it?

Also with upgrades the guns will all become lasers I dont even use the weapon upgrades at all.

Possible to port it over to fit into Redux?I tried it with vanilla stalker and the shotgun is blowing the mutant boars away like flies.A good weapons mod just doesnt fit into vanilla stalker anymore IMO.
  22:39:03  25 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
Elementlmage
11/25/2008 22:48:47
Messages: 258
As far as I know you should definitely be able to. The only things I have modded are a text script, the weapons, and upgrades, the actor and m_stalker.ltx files and Sakharov(On occasion you will notice he gets a few goodies). So any duped files should be relatively easy to merge. Right now, I think Redux uses a version of Vfire?

Some of the bullets do mod the accuracy, like the SP6 or the 7.62x54 7n14. It's only slight though, no more the 5-10 percent.

The difference in accuracy between the Marakov PB and MP5 is not particularly noticeable (to me anyway). With the MP5 you have the added advantage of being able to fire in bursts. Since I haven't figured out all of the different recoil settings, I tend to give some full auto weapons a slight drop in accuracy to help simulate the recoil effect. The down side is that it also effects single shots. :\

Hopefully by the next version I will have all of the little discrepancies worked out.


-Edit-
I think I will start a new game too... if only to enjoy the fruits of my labor.

Plus, it will give me a good change to test all of the weapons in context.
  16:50:07  26 November 2008
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ShadowStalker
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/21/2008
Messages: 22
Ironsights

I haven't played with it too much though I did start a new game. I was wondering if it would be possible for you to include ironsights for the pistols (widescreen support). I really hate the "1337" vision or w/e it's called that the pistols operate on. To me it is very unrealistic as no one in their right mind would look at the side of their pistol to aim. I also don't use the aiming crosshairs to make it more realistic so pistols are completely useless to me right now. Even if you just made it as a side folder and allowed people to choose to use them or not, would be great.

Also, I noticed that the crosshair for the win 1300 are ever so slightly skewed. The front sight post is to the left by a fraction of a decimal. I'm not sure if this was part of the mod or if I just never noticed it before. I'll double check it later this evening.
  23:21:27  28 November 2008
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avenger15
(Novice)
 
On forum: 11/28/2008
Messages: 6
Hi,

Serious noob question here:

How do I save the .ltx file once I modify it? I am opening it to make the changes with Notepad, but it won't save once I've edited the game_data line. Thanks.
  01:07:45  30 November 2008
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wolfstriked
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/02/2008
Messages: 283
Elemental,there is ability to add in k_air_resistance(in my game only 9x18 ammo has this).Whats the reason for this....anyone????
  03:29:05  30 November 2008
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Victim
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 05/21/2005
Messages: 1089

---QUOTATION---
Right now, I think Redux uses a version of Vfire?
---END QUOTATION---



Negative. CS Redux uses almost exactly the same weapon configurations as it did when it was written for SoC Redux +18 months ago.

No use in messing with what ain't broken.
  15:25:48  1 December 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Bleh... sorry for not posting guys; I had to go on a family vacation. <Insert comment on family/hell here.>

Wolf:

The 9x18 has air resistance b/c GSC was messing around with it before release. I did not put it in. However, that is one of my projects for the next release. I need to find some muzzle energy tables for the various ammo types, but it should be fairly easy to add in(I already have one for 5.56, please no AR15 links)

Avenger:

If I remember correctly, the gamedata.tlx file is set to "read only". You will have to right-click on the file and go into properties. There you should see a check box name Read Only. Uncheck that box.

Shadow:

Nice idea about the pistols, I never thought of making a separate folder. Since there are already a few pistol IS mods, I think I may just use one of those if they are any good.

Also, yes I understand that the sights on the Winchester and a few other guns are a not perfectly aligned. They are centered, it is just that the model isn't lined up correctly. I made that modification back before I figured out how to rotate the weapons; I should be a fairly easy process for me to tweak them a little bit.


All right, now off to answer a few emails...
  18:27:15  8 December 2008
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EonSpirit
(Senior)
 
On forum: 02/13/2008
Messages: 123
Hey man

The previous poster def. nailed it - this mod is by far the best weapon ballistics mod out there but the fact we widescreen users have totally nerfed pistols forces us more-less to use the crosshair which really kills the immersion. There was several good pistol ironsights mods, like karstux's for example.. the only problem is, of course, he kept all the other values at default.

Does anyone know excatly what factors need to be changed regarding ironsights? Cause I could go through it manually comparing the values from kartux's in the relevant fields and just leaving the others like they are in your mod.
  21:01:05  8 December 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Karstuks values work for standard screen, but the WS values are way off. I am working on finishing up the pistol ironsight for WS now. All I need to do is get my hands on a Deagle and a Walther. Once I finish those I will work on tightening up a few of my I.S. fixes for the other weapons.

Also, I have been playing through some SoC and have decided that I like some of the older weapon sounds WAY more. So I am going to be porting over some normal sounds and most likely all of the individual Silencer sounds. On top of that, expect an upgrade system re-balance (read: more expensive) and a few minor tweaks to how some of the weapons behave.
  01:51:32  27 December 2008
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tiptoptony
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/26/2008
Messages: 9
hello
it sounds like you are working on an update to the mod. if i download the current version and begin using it, will my save still work with your next update? if it will not, then do you think that your update will be ready within two weeks? if it will be, then i will just wait for it before i start playing. okay, thank you!!!
  03:58:38  30 December 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Nothing major really gets modded. So far none of my mod updates have required a restart. So go ahead and stalk to you hearts content.

As of now, I have sort of taken a break from modding. I have been enjoying Priboi Story and L4D. After, 113 hours of CS I think we would all take a break... except for TS; I don't think he plays LESS than 113 hours of Stalker a week.
  09:51:16  30 December 2008
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tiptoptony
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/26/2008
Messages: 9
Hello, thank you for your reply to me
Are your ballistics tweaks much different from Redux? Do you think it would be good to use smart mod manager to give your mod precedence over Redux and use them together, or must i choose one or the other?

Ok thank you goodbye thank you for your mod!!
  10:30:27  30 December 2008
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 26988
Official Ballistics Mod discusion thread

Elementlmage:

---QUOTATION---


As of now, I have sort of taken a break from modding.
I have been enjoying Priboi Story and L4D. After, 113
hours of CS I think we would all take a break... except for TS;
I don't think he plays LESS than 113 hours of Stalker a week.

---END QUOTATION---



Elementlmage~

I heard that.

Game time vs. Real time

01 minute = 06 seconds
10 minutes = 60 seconds
60 minutes = 06 minutes
( 1 hour )

05 hours = 30 minutes
10 hours = 1 hour
12 hours = 1 hour 12 minutes
24 hours = 2 hours 24 minutes
( 1 day )

48 hours ( 2 days ) = 4 hours 48 minutes
72 hours ( 3 days ) = 7 hours 12 minutes
240 hours ( 10 days ) = 24 hours

Your 113 Hours is only 47 days in the Zone.
My record is my still going SoC Game of
8 months and 10 days in Game Time.

TS
  06:44:22  1 January 2009
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
I haven't played around with Redux at all... but I would assume that they are completely different. I used a combination of AI damage model adjustments, and weapon/bullet damage adjustments. I did, more than just rebalanced it, it threw everything out the window and started from scratch.

I am not sure if Victim did anything other than just mod the ammo and weapon stats. If that is all he did, then they should run fine side by side in Mod Manager.

*Checked on it, he adds new ammo types and weapon sounds. So without proper merger, you wouldn't be able to use the new ammo types present in Redux, and you would have the old weapon sounds. As well, I couldn't guarantee that my changes to the upgrade system wouldn't conflict with some of the new weapons he's added.

The best I can tell you at this point is to make a back up of your save games and try to run them side by side with Mod Manager.

I have made a minor change to the system.ltx file. So mine would end up taking precedence over his, which would probably break quite a few of his more major changes. The good part is that the only thing that I changed was, cross_length = 0.005

All that does is control the length of the cross hairs and can be easily added in by you.

Gimmie a day or so to look through the Redux files to see what all needs to be merged. ATM it's a little after 12 am here and I've got a date with some gun powder.
  23:42:45  26 March 2009
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Well shit, Filefront goes down the second I start working on my mod. Not cool Ziff Davis!

Anyway, for the past couple of hours I have gotten most of the shotty and rifle sights pretty much aligned(re: "Good enough for government work), and I have finished getting the pistol sights working. I have started dicking around with some of the weapon recoil parameters, but I am dreading having to go back and re-edit the upgrade tables. So, right now I am debating whether or not to work on editing some weapon sounds or finishing up recoil.... back to CSI.

PS: Any suggestions on a good file hosting site?
  23:15:23  27 March 2009
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notanumber
mod abuser & exploiter
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/22/2008
Messages: 2818
How big is your mod? If it's not more than 1 MB or so you can send it to me and I'll place it on a web server and post a direct link.
  19:51:52  5 May 2009
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Sgt Doom
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 08/01/2008
Messages: 330
I hate to necro like this, but can anyone confirm that this works fine with 1.5.09? I'd rather not patch up only to find out I CTD instantly.
  16:25:34  26 May 2009
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shifter
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/20/2008
Messages: 2413
what problems are you fixing by going to patch 09? you might find it better to stay on your current patch.
  03:20:07  30 May 2009
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Angus McFisticuffs
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 07/23/2007
Messages: 285

---QUOTATION---
The idea behind this change is that the penalty should be in reduced reliabilty and not in making your weapon a smooth bore musket.
---END QUOTATION---



For some reason, this made be laugh hysterically for a good 30 seconds. Ok, so I'm really tired. Gonna give this mod a shot.
  17:10:07  4 June 2009
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
I have not tested it on .09 yet, but as long as they haven't changed any of the damage models or NPC variables than it should work just fine.

@Tarig

Lol, yeah in the original code, the weapons became 5 to 10 times less accurate over the course of a 2000-5000 round life span. As you can imagine, after a couple hundred rounds accuracy degrades quite a bit. In my mod, the weapons lose half of thier accuracy over a life span of 25,000-50,000 rounds for rifles and 5000 rounds for pistols.
  21:21:37  4 June 2009
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Gallonigher
(Senior)
 
On forum: 07/24/2008
Messages: 125
This looks like fun.

Does it work on 1.5.0.8.?

Am I right in thinking that weapon upgrades are best left alone? If all weapons behave as their real life counterparts would, there's not much point to most of the upgrades?
  12:32:31  27 September 2009
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Hmm, it appears people have been moving in on my territory?

J/K

Anyway, yeah, I been gone for a while. I burned out on Stalker but I have been itching to pick it(and my mod) up again... I don't want any crap out of you Tejas!)

I'll post a quick update later on once I figure out where I left off at. Any new release will most likely be my last however, as CoP is right on the horizon.
  10:06:51  4 October 2009
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madscientist24
(Novice)
 
On forum: 09/28/2008
Messages: 26
How do I make this compatible with SRP v1.0.1 (i.e., which of the two mods should I prioritize over the other?)? Also, how drastic is the change in gameplay? (just started the game and I'm sick of having to pump an entire clip at close range to kill someone...)
  05:34:45  26 October 2010
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Dr.Horse
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/22/2010
Messages: 32
Oh man... Going through all this trouble just to end up with MP5 round being 2 times more damaging then AK-74. WTH that's even worse then in Vanilla and hardly representative for an arcade mod, let alone realistic one.

FFS that 5.45 bullet has almost 3 times more energy them 9mm at typical distances.

Yeah I know... don't use if u don't like, modify them yourself etc...

"Ballistics" Mod
  09:29:39  11 December 2011
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Yeah yeah, it's been a year, dead thread and what not, sue me. I can't let this jank go unanswered

Your complaint is rather interesting since I distinctly remember taking the time to make sure proper body armor was nearly impervious to 9mm and .45 ACP rounds. I even went so far as to modify the AI to allow me to walk up to friendly NPCs and let me "test" my work on them. As I recall, it took me nearly half an MP5 mag of 9mm to drop a Dutier wearing Level 3 equivalent armor at point blank, and 5.45 took only 3 shots. I can't help but wonder if you didn't actually test my mod and just looked at the little blue bar and got all worked up?

Anyway, I shall prove it with numbers!

9mm Values:

k_dist = 1
k_disp = 1
k_hit = 0.8
k_impulse = 1
k_pierce = 0.6
k_ap = 0.5
impair = 1
buck_shot = 1
tracer = on
wm_size = 0.05
k_air_resistance = 1.5

5.45 Values:

k_dist = 1
k_disp = 1
k_hit = 1.1
k_impulse = 1
k_pierce = 0.8
k_ap = 0.70
impair = 1
buck_shot = 1
tracer = on
wm_size = 0.05



Now, yes, the values don't add up to 3x the muzzle energy, but that because after 1.5.05 (After we discovered the formula for the damage model), the dev team changed the way damage was calculated. k_ap, the armor coefficient(ie, how much energy is retained on contact with a creature wearing "armor" is no longer linear. It is applied against some now unseen exponential function making .7 a significantly higher value than .5.


What you seem to be complaining about is the hit_power value applied to the weapon (and not the ammo its shooting) that shows up in the in game weapon description (the little blue power/damage bar).

Hit power for AK74:

hit_power = 0.38

Hit power for 92FS:

hit_power = 0.5

As you can see, the Beretta does have a higher power factor, but this is misleading, as all of my balancing efforts are done under the hood and are invisible to the player until the trigger is pulled.

Now, as for how damage gets calculated, for all intents and purposes, you multiply the the bullets k_hit value by the weapons hit_power value. For 5.45 vs 9mm this actually winds up making them nearly equal against non-armored creatures such as pigs and boars which would mimic real life. 5.45 has more energy but does not heavy nearly the wounding potential of a heavy round nosed projectile like a 9mm fmj. It is when you introduce body armor(again, like real life) that the difference becomes pronounced. Even basic Level 2 body armor (light CS and Loner armor) causes the balance to shift to the 5.45, though 9mm is still viable, requiring ~5 hits to drop an enemy, IIRC. If an enemy is wearing and exo skeleton, it will take you nearly two full MP5 mags to bring him down, where as 5-6 5.45 AP rounds can get the job done.

Now, let it be know, that I know my mod inside and out. I spent over 100 hours play testing the various versions prior to release. I like to think that I have a pretty good idea of what it takes to kill what. If you think you have found something that seems out of the ordinary, go ahead, post your findings, and give as much detail about the encounter as possible and I will look into it.

However, if you just happened to pick up a Makarov and hold it up next to an AKS-74u and got annoyed that the PMs damage meter was longer... well, you know what you can do with it
  18:20:28  15 February 2012
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Sgt Doom
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 08/01/2008
Messages: 330
Couldn't help but notice you talking about 0.9 of your mod. Where might I be able to find 0.8? I've only got 0.5.
  18:41:36  3 July 2013
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Zelekendel
(Novice)
 
On forum: 06/27/2013
 

Message edited by:
Zelekendel
07/03/2013 23:17:18
Messages: 13

---QUOTATION---
Couldn't help but notice you talking about 0.9 of your mod. Where might I be able to find 0.8? I've only got 0.5.
---END QUOTATION---



I think he means the patch 0.9 for SC, not this version.

Sorry for necro. but I'm looking for the best weapons & ballistics mod around - or maybe it's included in one of the bigger modpacks.

Anyone got anything to say about the current state of this one compared to the others?
 
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