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Official Ballistics Mod discusion thread

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  20:09:27  9 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
Elementlmage
11/09/2008 20:11:59
Messages: 258
Wow, where do you get you facts from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abd9bpvd6zY

Level 3 body armor test vs. 5.56(doesnt specify 193 or 855) The plate takes 63 rounds before penetration occurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_vest

Level 2 will protect against 9mm, but not HV 9mm.

What do you consider to be standard Russian 5.45 ammo? The 5n7s? Those where phased out in the late 80's
The new 7n6 rounds are easily on par with the 5.56 and b/c of their better ballistic coefficient retain their energy much better over long flight distances. Not to mention they have a real penetrater core, not that sharped cap at the base of the SS109 FN calls a penetrater.

Were did you get your info that the 5.45x39 doesnt tumble till 20cm. This medical report suggests otherwise. Ah Bosnia, only then did we decide to care about ethnic cleansing...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_200112/ai_n9010648

8cm, you will also notice that there is not much of a wound profile. However, you also see that 6 (6 or 8 i forget which) of the rounds do not exit out of the back face of the gel like "normal" terminal models. Once they initiate their first tumble at 8 cm decide they don't want to go straight and pick a random direction. This is were most of the damage occurs, not from temporary cavitation but from the tendency of the rounds to change direction and elongate their wound tracks(hopefully through a major organ )

WTF is a 7.62x61? I assume you mean 7.92x61, in which milspec variant is no longer produced...although the Mauser k98 does supposedly make a great hunting rifle


---QUOTATION---
THat is a reason why M4A1 in Iraq were found inadequate - they barrels are just 14" and with M855 they were not able to make projectile fragment reliably - marines using M16A4 with 20" barrels had no such issues.
---END QUOTATION---



Which is one of the reasons the 5.56 is being phased out... it sucks. They are replacing it with the vastly superior 6.8 round and are currently testing service rifles to use the new round. I think Barrett and H&K each have one in the running for the standard service rifle and FN already has the wink from the SpecOps boys for a 6.8 variant of the SCAR.

M193 rounds hit from 1600-1700j, the M855 tends to have slightly more energy coming in at 1700-1775. Were as the 7n6 round only manages to get 1400-1425j, but they retain their energy AND wound potential over longer ranges. We all know that muzzle energy is not everything. Hell even the Chinese were impressed by the 7n6:


---QUOTATION---
This was verified in the livestock testing performed by the Chinese. Here the 5.45 7N6 load showed what it was designed to do and produced significantly larger wounds than either the 5.56 SS109 or the 5.8x42. However the range here was short, only 90m. While the Chinese were impressed by, and commented on the tremendous close range wound capacity of the 5.45 7N6 loading they also stated that by 600m its accuracy, penetration, and wound capability had dropped off significantly due to its lightweight 52 grain projectile. However they also felt the 5.45x39 to be a very economical cartridge to manufacture. The Chinese were impressed by the 5.56x45 SS109 and felt that it was effective up to 600m. However they felt that it had the disadvantages of high chamber pressures and because it utilized brass cartridge cases was not economical to produce.
---END QUOTATION---

-http://www.snipersparadise.com/articles/chinacomplex.htm

I tried to find ballistics info on the 7n6, but this is the best that I could come up with. Most of the info I found is about or based on the 5n7.


However, we can argue all day long about the superiority of the 7n6 vs M855. I have settled on the notion that the 7n6 has better AP potential than the M855 and has better wound potential at longer ranges. The M855 has better wound potential at closer ranges and tends to be more accurate at long range due to its higher weight and initial energy.
  23:47:28  9 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20

---QUOTATION---

What do you consider to be standard Russian 5.45 ammo? The 5n7s? Those where phased out in the late 80's
The new 7n6 rounds are easily on par with the 5.56 and b/c of their better ballistic coefficient retain their energy much better over long flight distances. Not to mention they have a real penetrater core, not that sharped cap at the base of the SS109 FN calls a penetrater.

---END QUOTATION---



That just gave me an idea... since most of the stalkers would probably be using black market surplus ammo or stuff dug up in the garbage... Maybe you should issue 5n7s to the Stalkers and the more modern round exclusively to the Ukrainian military forces.
  02:34:34  10 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Good idea, I have actually been thinking about adding in 7n24 rounds just have some bitchin' Russian engineering in the game. Is it just me or does the thought of a sharpened tungsten-carbide penetrater core.... you get the idea.

But yeah, have like 5n7, 7n6, 7n22, and 7n24 (7n10 and 20 never saw wide spread use)

Also, if I happen to get some cash, all this research has shown me that I can get a rather good Easter-bloc stockpile for under a grand! I'm thinking Vepr IIK and 1080 rounds of 7n6!!!
  11:15:51  10 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20

---QUOTATION---
Good idea, I have actually been thinking about adding in 7n24 rounds just have some bitchin' Russian engineering in the game. Is it just me or does the thought of a sharpened tungsten-carbide penetrater core.... you get the idea.

But yeah, have like 5n7, 7n6, 7n22, and 7n24 (7n10 and 20 never saw wide spread use)

Also, if I happen to get some cash, all this research has shown me that I can get a rather good Easter-bloc stockpile for under a grand! I'm thinking Vepr IIK and 1080 rounds of 7n6!!!
---END QUOTATION---



The more I think about it some of the high end weapons in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. don't make much sense... The Groza, VSS Vintorez, and AS Val are exclusively issued to Russian Federation Spetz Natz. The military you encounter in Stalker are all Ukrainian Spetz Natz... How are these guys getting these guns? I'd almost expect the Ukrainian Spetz Natz to be using NATO converted weapons considering how buddy buddy they've been to NATO. It makes me wonder if Dolg or Monolith are being covertly supported by the Russian Federation.

Right now I've basically decided to dial back the presence of these weapons with the possible exception of monolith (Wierd fact... The Russo-Ukrainian border runs through the zone and Ukraine violated russian territorial integrity when it rushed to the center in SHOC). Thats really easy considering how I've got the equipment selection of all the characters as being probability based at the moment.

Does anyone know how the Ukrainian Spetz Natz are currently equipped? Do they use Grozas or are they still primarily users of the silenced AKs?

Anyway, I'm adding a wide variety of weapons and ammo... foremost among them being a long list Saiga carbines using different skins to the AK model. I've got multiple versions of the Saiga 7.62x39, 223, and 308 variants in game already (The 308 is a blast when you pick one up). Makes for a much more immersive experience when STALKERs tend to use semi-automatic civilian versions of the AK. (Personally I prefer using the civilian variants in the game. I tend to get excited with a full auto and spray rounds... and quickly burn through all my scavenged ammo).
  14:25:27  10 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Nope, Ukrainian forces still primarily use Eastern-bloc firearms. As all of the fire arms used just mentioned are pre-1991 I would most certainly expect them to be present in the zone. You can even get a VSS here in the states if you find a dealer with connections to eastern Europe.

Also, Chernobyl is on the border of Belarus, not Russia. See as how there was no counter invasion, I don't think they cared.
  00:56:31  11 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20

---QUOTATION---
Nope, Ukrainian forces still primarily use Eastern-bloc firearms. As all of the fire arms used just mentioned are pre-1991 I would most certainly expect them to be present in the zone. You can even get a VSS here in the states if you find a dealer with connections to eastern Europe.

Also, Chernobyl is on the border of Belarus, not Russia. See as how there was no counter invasion, I don't think they cared.
---END QUOTATION---



You're right about the VSS and Val, but the Groza was introduced in 1994 so it's probably not used by the Ukrainian Spetz Natz. I didn't know you could get a VSS or Val in the states... damn, I'll have to up their availability. Any idea how much it costs to buy one?
  01:47:46  11 November 2008
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Elementlmage
Sanity is the state of mind that you believe in sanity
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 258
Well, I didn't say they were wide spread, it IS possible, but you do need a dealer with east-bloc connections. Also, considering they are full auto, probably at least 10k, plus 200 bucks for ATF registration. DAMN YOU FDR!

lol j/k


Anyway, I have just finished up re-writing the upgrade tables. Thought it would also be a good excuse to show off my station:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g207/ElementlMage/atwork.jpg

I am well on my way to being able to push out the latest version this week. Wish me luck...
  02:33:35  11 November 2008
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Catsy
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/10/2008
 

Message edited by:
Catsy
11/11/2008 2:37:30
Messages: 259

---QUOTATION---
Anyway, I have just finished up re-writing the upgrade tables. Thought it would also be a good excuse to show off my station:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g207/ElementlMage/atwork.jpg
---END QUOTATION---



Cute kid. Yours?

Looking forward to this. I'm kinda nearing the end of my enthusiasm for fucking around with CS weapon modding, so it'll be nice to play with yours and Vandal's for a bit.

Also, this:


---QUOTATION---
Good idea, I have actually been thinking about adding in 7n24 rounds just have some bitchin' Russian engineering in the game.
---END QUOTATION---



Is a good idea. Issuing different, arguably more effective ammo to the military (and probably Duty to a lesser extent, since they seem to have some really good connections) would give the player a good reason to fight them once he's better-equipped, to collect the nice ammo they'd drop. The flip side would be that doing so would be /dangerous/.
  03:12:47  11 November 2008
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Roguesaber
(Novice)
 
On forum: 10/09/2008
Messages: 20
Yeah thats a good point. Though he'll have to edit the death drop tables and all that... It's a pain once you add ammo and weapons to add drops for when you kill the enemy.

Right now I've just realized that I'm going to have to add a bunch more ammo types to my game. Including stuff like the 8mm Mauser and all that. Just because I've started adding Yugo weapons and some other form warsaw pact nation's small arms.

I've got the Yugo M91 Sniper Rifle in game, and I personally prefer it over the SVD, its less accurate but has a better scope and is more reliable (It uses the AK action). I'll be adding the Yugo M76 Sniper Rifle when I've added the 8mm mauser. I'm also thinking about adding faction specific weapons, like the TOZ-34 "Digger Special" where a TOZ has been converted to fire the 14.5 KPVT Cannon round (I wonder how many of those rounds are stored on the BTRs that are lieing around the garbage) for the loners, and the CSR-94 "Gravi" Assault Rifle (An AN-94 that uses 9x39 ammo and a gravi artifact in the chamber to effectively negate the mass of the round and increase its muzzle velocity) for clear sky.

Damn... 10K plus for a groza in the states, makes sense though. It also will give you a hint as to the price of one in the zone. 1 dollar roughly equals 25 rubles... ouch.
  03:48:26  11 November 2008
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wolfstriked
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/02/2008
Messages: 283
Love this mod!!

Question,is the MP5 really cause more damage than an AK74?
 
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