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The Warmongers mod (re)announced

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  01:28:15  4 May 2010
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Firmament
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/02/2009
 

Message edited by:
Firmament
05/04/2010 1:40:09
Messages: 268

---QUOTATION---
Cross-posted to the relevant thread:

Well my point is that while you do indeed balance the normal weapons to usable status, you can still upgrade them, and they become ri-freakin-diculously powerful. I can use an AK74, which you can easily get in the swamps, to take out an entire squad in a matter of seconds. If I have AP rounds, then I can take out a duty exo and Bulat squad before they get a chance to fire back enough to do serious harm.

With an AK.

In vanilla.
---END QUOTATION---



I understand your point, but as you said it you're refering to vanilla (or mods that are, in essence, very close to it). The mod I'm making is deeply different to the original game, there's almost nothing comparable bewteen the two. In this mod, for many, many reasons, to attack an experienced squad alone with a better weapon than an AK is often extremely challenging, unless you get really lucky (or the squad acts really stupid, which, hopefully, is quite rare). And to attack some exoskeletons alone with a fully upgraded FN2000 can still have you succeed in that, but it's *far* more challenging (nearly suicidal if the NPCs happen to have good smart covers all around). The mod is overally much harder than vanilla, and a good weapon, whichever one, would only help you on not to appear as completely ridiculous, but nothing more


---QUOTATION---
My other issue with increasing the guns like that is all you do is increase the number of times you have to load your game. That's even less realistic, and even less fun, as you don't get to load in RL.
---END QUOTATION---



Not sure I get your point there. How would increasing the accuracy of a gun cause you to load more? Using bad weaponry actually increases not only the amount of loads, but also the amount of medikits used, which is twice less realistic! You've confused me


---QUOTATION---
*EDIT* You know what, actually what I think would completely solve this problem is changing the way the upgrades work. Make them normally accurate anyway, and make the upgrades modify other things, like recoil (already does, but still good to keep), weight, etc. I'll see if I can come up with some other ideas. But honestly, upgrading for accuracy has always seemed really dumb to me. What are your thoughts on this? This would make it so that you can actually afford to use a non-upgraded gun and still kill things more than 5 feet in front of you. As it is, you have to fully upgrade your replacement before you can .. well, replace it, or else it's a step back in effectiveness, which is just dumb.
---END QUOTATION---



The problem is that I'm not sure I would agree with you on what a "normally accurate" weapon should be. If you're ok with the vanilla non-upgraded weapons, well, that's your right, but I'm not To me there's something wrong in the fact that CS has some of the best weapons in the world, and in the same time this game keeps well-known for featuring a rather random accuracy, and totally unapropriate ballistics.
Hell, in real life, let's suppose that you're crouching on the wagon, the one facing the elevator in Cordon, carrying an Lr3000, don't you think you could kill some guys shoting at you from here? Try this in vanilla, it automatically brings up some laughable and rather unrealistic situation in which you send 50 bullets at the same guy, with him not even replying, just repeating the same injured anim again and again... To me, such things kill everything about realism, and God knows I've had to endure many of these pathetic situations when playing vanilla (still loved the game, though, no doubt on that) :/
In The Warmongers mod, not only do the NPC reply when you fire at them on long distances (doesn't that mean they would *engage* you if you don't attack them in the first place!), but when hit, as they actually enter a state of agressiveness (instead of keeping passive), things happen more naturally, since they can even harm you badly as they aim rather well and may carry snipers (and use them as such, which, as you probably know, is impossible in vanilla).
The ai in my mod is very smart and accurate. I know some people will hate this, but if these same people are the ones who enjoy events like the one I've just reported above, then they're clearly not on the same wavelenght than I... The idea is that if you can do *that*, whatever it may be, to NPCs, then so do they. Doesn't that sound normal?
Plus I like the idea that, in a place like the Zone, the survival instinct makes people to act much more efficiently than they would do in sport, gun competition, etc...


---QUOTATION---
It'd be nice to get an update on mod progress. You know, what's going on, what's been done, what needs doing next..or even if you're just ranting off some 3 thousand word paragraph explaining how you stubbed your toe walking to your computer.

---END QUOTATION---



It'd be hard for me to write what I still need to do; I would loose you all in my explanations more than anything else
Well, basically, marsh's, cordon's, garbage's and dark valley's logics are all ready. But the last one needs more testing. I've already created some advanced logic for the other places, but they need more work, which is the point where I am right now. What do I hear by logic? Well, spawns/respawns, squads, NPCs, scripts, factions' targets (all done), fixes, etc...
At last, I'll have to create new upgrade systems for a couple of exoskeletons.
It shouldn't take *that* long depending on how nicely or badly the testing happens
  19:55:04  4 May 2010
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PhoenixHeart
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On forum: 10/22/2008
Messages: 1165
You completely missed my point. One of those is my fault. I meant when people upgrade the accuracy on guns, they always do it for both the player and the NPC's. The NPC part is the thing I was referring to with more loading.

Also, this part:

"Try this in vanilla, it automatically brings up some laughable and rather unrealistic situation in which you send 50 bullets at the same guy, with him not even replying, just repeating the same injured anim again and again... To me, such things kill everything about realism, and God knows I've had to endure many of these pathetic situations when playing vanilla (still loved the game, though, no doubt on that"

Did you ever upgrade your weapons for accuracy in CS? 3-4 bullets is all it takes to drop an enemy at long range (range is very short in this game due to terrain blocking view)


I do disagree with how stupidly inaccurate the base weapons are in CS. However, when upgraded with accuracy, they become perfect. Any more accurate and it's just too easy. So, to put it in simple terms, if you fix base accuracy, remove the accuracy upgrades or you WILL break the game.

Hoping I got my point across this time.
  23:54:42  5 May 2010
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Firmament
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On forum: 06/02/2009
 

Message edited by:
Firmament
05/05/2010 23:58:16
Messages: 268
My bad, now I see what you mean. Anyway, What you call super-accuracy isn't really a problem in my mod. At least, in my opinion. That's why I'll await the first reports from players to see whether I change this or not

I'm almost done with editing Agroprom's new logic. The recent play-testing I've just had is very satisfying (made it to the end of story in Dark Valley - including side quests) with no real problems... Except many patrol manager bugs, but I'll fix these ones easily (anyway, my whole factions' respawn system needed some tweaks - already done).
Another annoying issue I have, but perhaps this one will please people who want realism, like PhoenixHeart, nearly 95% of the loads crash the game the first time you use them. It's a problem with having too many respawn points I believe - I had the same issue with saves but found a way to fix it. Fortunately, when you restart the game, and load your file again, then it works fine. Knowing this, I swear you'll actually take care on how to plan your attacks, much like in real life
I'm half-joking, and sure hope to have this fixed on the first release; but if that's truly an engine limitation, then sadly there's nothing much I can do for this.

Btw, I've added more pics on the Warmongers' screenies page, here: http://profile.imageshack.us/user/Francoista4?n=y
As you can see, I've added some weapons I've borrowed to other mods, such as basic monstruosity. Again, due credits will come in time It's sad that very few people actually watch those screenshots... Certain ones are really some of the best I've ever seen for a Stalker game (specially the ones on pages 6-7)
  20:18:50  7 May 2010
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Pseudostomp
There is a strange beauty in The Zone.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/17/2010
Messages: 1196
I like a challenge. This sounds so good, especially the npc's responding and engaging from a distance.

When the player becomes a nearly invulnerable walking tank I lose interest.


---QUOTATION---
...In this mod, for many, many reasons, to attack an experienced squad alone with a better weapon than an AK is often extremely challenging, unless you get really lucky (or the squad acts really stupid, which, hopefully, is quite rare). And to attack some exoskeletons alone with a fully upgraded FN2000 can still have you succeed in that, but it's *far* more challenging (nearly suicidal if the NPCs happen to have good smart covers all around). The mod is overally much harder than vanilla, and a good weapon, whichever one, would only help you on not to appear as completely ridiculous, but nothing more

... In The Warmongers mod, not only do the NPC reply when you fire at them on long distances (doesn't that mean they would *engage* you if you don't attack them in the first place!), but when hit, as they actually enter a state of agressiveness (instead of keeping passive), things happen more naturally, since they can even harm you badly as they aim rather well and may carry snipers (and use them as such, which, as you probably know, is impossible in vanilla).
The ai in my mod is very smart and accurate.
---END QUOTATION---

  11:11:14  13 May 2010
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RSteve503
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 02/07/2010
Messages: 179
Just want to give an encouragement to ya...

I have recently played the heck out of Pripyat, and find it, like someone said, a step forward and backward.

One thing I noticed was lack of purpose. There is no really compelling need for the hero to succeed.... The whole thing seems inconsequential. Or just didnt make sense....

Now I love freeplay, and dont need an overall mission if there are interesting things going on, but the story is there, and not well done. And dominated by scripted sequences. Some moronic dialog, too....standing outside the ship, holding a gun, and hear the speaker telling you over and over that you cant come on board with a gun, when out the door walk several stalkers, all with guns out....moronic.

I think Clear Sky is the best of the series. More and much bigger areas....(in Pripyat there are cliffs all over that force you on certain paths. and only 3 areas.) And no radioactive water.

The Swamp in CS has no parallel in Pripyat. In Pripyat you can just do a straight line thru any swamp portion, and can always see high ground.

So I look forward to your mod.... THANKS FOR THE WORK!!!
  23:04:13  13 May 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
I didn't do it.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/21/2010
Messages: 1667

---QUOTATION---
Just want to give an encouragement to ya...

I have recently played the heck out of Pripyat, and find it, like someone said, a step forward and backward.

One thing I noticed was lack of purpose. There is no really compelling need for the hero to succeed.... The whole thing seems inconsequential. Or just didnt make sense....

Now I love freeplay, and dont need an overall mission if there are interesting things going on, but the story is there, and not well done. And dominated by scripted sequences. Some moronic dialog, too....standing outside the ship, holding a gun, and hear the speaker telling you over and over that you cant come on board with a gun, when out the door walk several stalkers, all with guns out....moronic.

I think Clear Sky is the best of the series. More and much bigger areas....(in Pripyat there are cliffs all over that force you on certain paths. and only 3 areas.) And no radioactive water.

The Swamp in CS has no parallel in Pripyat. In Pripyat you can just do a straight line thru any swamp portion, and can always see high ground.

So I look forward to your mod.... THANKS FOR THE WORK!!!
---END QUOTATION---



I agree with most of that. Except the "no radioactive water" There is one, measly, example of radioactive water. The glowing steering wheel mission had radioactivity in the water.
  00:14:12  14 May 2010
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Firmament
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/02/2009
 

Message edited by:
Firmament
05/14/2010 0:17:25
Messages: 268
Thanks, all.


---QUOTATION---
I think Clear Sky is the best of the series.
---END QUOTATION---



So do I, that's why I'm modding it


I still have some work to do, but things evolve well... I've updated the readme, put in it few things I forgot to mention or recently made (it's sad I can't edit my initial post, though)


Main features:

/GAME - GAMEPLAY/

- Storyline and secondary quests all preserved. Except (maybe) a minority of them I haven't managed to get working like in vanilla game.

- Vastly improved faction wars. Factions are more aggressive and greedy as well. Many new targets added to the faction war, few waypoints improved or fixed. The Monolith, Zombied, the Army and Mercenaries now act as real factions, with objectives and respawn points to hold (the player still cannot join any of them though). Factions can now exterminate other ones, and use their bases as their own.

- The relations system has been improved to fit best with the current Zone (basically, most of the groups of people are no longer rallied or even neutral towards the other ones. One of the only exception to this is that the Duty still doesn't have any sort of problems with the Loners.. Few flaws from the vanilla game have been fixed).

- NPCs now buy almost everything. They may also sell you weapons and outfits (even the upgraded ones!), along with various items (basically, nearly everything the game has, except quest or unique objects). Is hopefully balanced, as this feature has been done in a way that all NPC's inventories actually depend on the character's rank and faction. But, technically, everyone may happen to sell you everything.

- Much more interesting trade system (buy upgraded and rare items. Plus every trader now really act differently to each other...).

- Stalkers are now a little less keen on trying to get you out of their way all the time.

- Working sleeping bag. Don’t forget to sleep or you will get tired and then eventually fall asleep by your own.

- Scar now jumps much better, but won’t carry more than 50kg max.

- You can now sprint while carrying an exoskeleton armor, a PKM or a sniper rifle.

- Better and more realistic headlamp.

- More realistic consumables (food, drink and drugs have been improved and balanced to act more coherently. Overally, they are noticeably less helpful than in GSC's game). Without reporting all the changes that have been made, I must point out that the vodka removes
radiation much better than drugs, this being due to the fact that getting drunk is much more embarassing, when playing, than loosing few health and stamina (in other words, vodka isn't as useless as it is in vanilla game).

- Default health restoration is now much, much slower.

- Better Artefacts respawn system (anomalies may or may not contain an artefact. And whether they do, you have no mean to guess which one until you see it. The artefact may be spawned absolutely everywhere in the anomaly. Hopefully, all this has been balanced carefully).

- The weakest artefacts all have been arranged. They now really have a direct impact on the game rather than just being vaguely helpful whenever the player meets an anomaly.

- Over ten new armors included. A hard work has been done in order to have some of them to feature both an original and a balanced upgrade system.

- A stunning amount of upgraded items (weapons and armors) has been added to the game. You can get them by looting bodies, buying them to traders and NPCs, or, if you are lucky enough, finding them inside stashes.

- Emissions are disabled.

- Added a new extremely rare artefact that can absorb bullets.

- Most doors now stay open (definitely improves certain aspects of the faction war). Will most likely try to manage to find a way to include COP's script in which NPC are able to open closed doors.

- No more treasures (secret stashes revealed after having killed and looted random NPCs. I might work on this again later, but for now, they're disabled).

- NPCs no longer ignore mutants hunting the player, or standing significantly far away from their original spawn point (thanks to Smoq2 for that fix)

- Certain secondary quests or special tasks have been little or deeply arranged, most of them are now a little less repetitive and predictable, and specially are more challenging.

- You can now recruit squads provided that you pay them the right price. Once you have become the commander of one squad, you can give it basic orders such as follow, wait, hold position.


/FIGHT - WEAPONS/

- Each faction is granted many new types of fighters (Bandit exoskeleton, Army commando, Monolith elite soldier, scientist, etc...).

- The weaponry has been revisited and improved (accuracy, damages, upgrades...). Many bugs from the yet 1.5.10 patched game have been fixed. A lot of work has been done to propose truly balanced and interesting weapons.

- 18 new weapons included, plus 4 new types of grenades.

- You can now use your weapon in camps.

- Weapons react more realistically depending on whether the actor is running, standing still or crouching. In Clear Sky, that yet crucial feature needed real improvements.

- Better Ai: Stalkers reload, heal themselves, know which weapon to use according to certain notions such as the distance and strenght of the enemy, loot corpses (includes Smog2's script to prevent scripted squads from acting stupid when performing some special task, and more). Precious other tweaks.

- Each Stalker spawns with a random weapon. According to the faction, the rank, you will still detect some tendancies in certain people’s commonly used weapons, but technically, anyone may carry anything.

- Small and yet existing new possibilities to find more useful and rare items on dead bodies. Dead people will also drop stuff according to their faction (but, for gameplay’s sake, everyone has little chances to drop things he shouldn’t normally carry. I think I’ve worked long enough on this).

- Silencers, while guaranteed to give actual results, now slightly decrease the power of any weapon they're attached to (by power I hear bullet speed, fire distance, and damages).


/MUTANTS/

- All cut out monsters (Burer, Cat...) are back.

- Many new mutants' lairs. The more you hunt them the stronger and more agressive they become.

- On ambient purpose, certain mutants may now happen to eat dead corpses.

- Mutants not only are more numerous, but also have a more agressive behavior towards the player and NPCs.

- Few changes in mutants' abilities and capacities. Most noticeable ones being the Psydog's phantoms now giving light but actual damages, and the Controllers' telepathy aura having an influence over a much wider area than before (the Controller is also clearly faster).


/UI - HUD/

- New transparent inventory menu.

- New arms and HUDs when carrying certain armors.

- No crosshair, no grenade warning, no minimap, no map spots for mutants and enemies in general, and no hit marks.

- No more frames nor detect sound when using binoculars.

- No more loading disk from the HUD.


/VISUALS - SOUNDS/

- Much better textures for food, drink, walls, woods, roads, ground, floors, briks, glasses, weapons, etc...

- New scopes.

- New ingame animations for the Winchester 1300.

- More blood...

- Fully detailed PDA map (most locations now do have a name).

- Weather is more varied, coherent, and visually amazing.

- Many new sounds; the weapons, specially, have been entirely revisited on that purpose. Many of them now have unique sounds for reloading, firing, etc...

- Few unique characters (mostly the ones seen in side quests or special tasks).


Also added a new pic showing a new kind of NPC, Clear Sky dude carrying a SEVA suit. Each faction will have its own SEVA suit, btw (Clear Sky has even two type of SEVA) ^^
As usual, watch it there: http://profile.imageshack.us/user/Francoista4?n=y

Now, I'm going to start a massive play-testing again, hoping to manage to finish the game normally (even though Red Forest, Military Warehouses and Limansk still need to be done).
  00:18:27  14 May 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
I didn't do it.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/21/2010
Messages: 1667

---QUOTATION---
RSTEVE03 I think Clear Sky is the best of the series.

Firmament So do I, that's why I'm modding it



---END QUOTATION---



I know CS is the best.
  22:52:06  14 May 2010
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Bowcaster
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On forum: 03/02/2010
Messages: 205
no emissions, and no hidden stashes...

  23:04:50  14 May 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
I didn't do it.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/21/2010
Messages: 1667

---QUOTATION---
no emissions, and no hidden stashes...


---END QUOTATION---



If you want me to i'll see about re-adding the stashes.
 
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