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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

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  07:26:57  1 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I have some serious complaints about the Clear Sky Patch 1.5.10.

The Game has been horribly gimped and the AI rendered stupid.

Before this Patch the Faction Wars had it's difficulties but you could
prod it along. You could take a Task to get another Faction to take
the position of another Faction and they would attack and fight it out.
Sometimes they would win and sometimes they would lose but the
best thing is you had the choice to participate or not. This was very
useful if you didn't want to take sides but wanted credit to win Faction
favor with the attacking Faction and you could stay neutral in the War.

Now the Game refuses to let you do this. I took the Task of Freedom
to attack a Bandit position that I did not want to take sides. The 5
Freedom advanced and got 20 feet away from a lone Bandit. They
kept screaming at me to give them the signal. What signal? The
Freedom Troopers were shooting crazy. Every which direction BUT
the Bandit. They were INCAPABLE of hitting the Bandit right in front
of them. I even had to stand BEHIND the Bandit because they kept
shooting me. Give us the signal...give us the signal! they screamed
as they shot trees, bushes and the ground. I guess the 1.5.10 patch
has made it where no Task can be done unless you alone can do it.
Talk about dumbed down AI. I couldn't believe this was a Stalker
Game. Finally I moved about 40 feet out of range and suddenly
a miracle happened and they hit the Bandit. I thought great...maybe
I'll finally earn some points with the Freedom Faction...but NO!!!!
TASK CANCELLED. The whole Faction Wars are gimped. Instead
of seeing improvements everything is dumbed down and the AI
rendered STUPID. Thank You Patch 1.5.10 for ruining my Game.
And where is the goddamn 3rd Cordon Flash Drive. Patch after Patch
after Patch and this has still never been FIXED. My advice DO NOT
USE PATCH 1.5.10!!! Use Patch 1.5.08 or earlier. Jesus Christ.

TS
  09:22:12  1 September 2010
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Genocider
Caretaker of the infamous Pseudo duck
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On forum: 03/20/2010
Messages: 627
Lol, I don't blame you for the rage with the faction wars, they aren't to good in vanilla however I do enjoy sitting in the cordon just taking bandit and loner weapons. I also enjoy mutant hunting in the cordon as usually the loners lose it from mutants most of the time. Anyway I wish I could use an older patch but eh sadly I can't thanks to steam. Although thankfully Tejas, there are alot of mods for patch 1.5.10 that well make this game alot better. Although vanilla isn't to bad as long as you don't join a faction. Oh and by the way, I freaking hate controllers now.
  13:46:52  1 September 2010
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Kane4
"Order of the Liquidators" and Dez0wave Tester
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On forum: 07/17/2008
 

Message edited by:
Kane4
09/01/2010 13:47:33
Messages: 12552
Just hit the K key and they'll roger that. That feature should've worked in earlier patches, but apparently didn't.
  14:07:44  1 September 2010
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Vikingstalker
The Zones Blacksmith
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On forum: 11/26/2009
Messages: 4434

---QUOTATION---
Just hit the K key and they'll roger that. That feature should've worked in earlier patches, but apparently didn't.
---END QUOTATION---



Never knew about this before
  22:27:16  1 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I was unaware about that Key. It's not listed in the Game Guide but
sure enough it is there in my Game Options Menu. Unfortunately I had
changed my "K" key to do Screenshots using my Wolf Claw Gaming
Keyboard so my Command for that was not designated. When I now
have assigned a Key for it suddenly Freedom doesn't ask for my input
and they attack on their own. And of course I was there but the Task
then got cancelled I guess because I did not kill anyone in the attack.

I was at the Flea Market and got the Call-to-Help for the Bandits in the
Valley going to the Red Forest. Knowing the Game is poorly scripted
when dealing with the Bandits at the Exit Points I went anyway since
I was desperate to earn Faction points. I get there and waited. Soon
some Pseudodogs and Dogs arrived and the 3 Bandits and I killed
them all. I awaited Task Completed. Instead it gave me a 2nd attack.
I fought the 2nd attack and had 1 Bandit survivor. No Task Completed.
We just stood there staring at each other. I had made several Manual
Saves at the various stages so I reloaded the one before the 2nd attack.
The Game started and then the Task Cancelled immediately and the 3
Bandits instantly started shooting at me like expected at the Exit Points
and then suddenly they vanished and I was alone. I reloaded another
Save when I first got there and again the Task self-cancelled and the
Bandits shot at me until they vanished again like the Game is trying to
correct itself. Bad move to load any Save when I had arrived already.
I loaded my Manual Save right after when I first got the Call-to-Help
and my Game started and I got Task Cancelled. While my Game has
not CTD yet, it still remains pretty buggy and hard to do things to win
favor with the various Factions in their attacks, Call-to-Help or whatever.

TS
  22:31:53  1 September 2010
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Danlo
The Lazy Writer
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On forum: 10/21/2008
Messages: 5198
the game cancelling missions if you are half way through when you save is an old problem - similar to the one where talking to the loner in garbage gimps if you reload while or just before the dogs attack (he wont talk to you even if you save his life). Both of these problems have been in earlier versions of the game.
  22:55:43  1 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
I didn't do it.
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On forum: 03/21/2010
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@Tejas It's just luck of the draw sometimes the faction wars will **** you over without joining them, sometimes they'll work just as planned.
  23:19:04  1 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I guess I've done all I can in the Garbage Level for now.
Time to go on to the Dark Valley with what stuff I upgraded
thanks to Limpid. Can't wait to get my 1st Endurance Artifact:
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/7711/53992193.jpg

TS
  23:21:36  1 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 2273
When NPCs say they're waiting on my signal I've always assumed that they mean the attack button. I seem to recall it working at some time, if so that would have been long time ago in an earlier patch.

BTW I've been wondering why squad leaders say "attack on my [=the squad leader's] signal", when the NPCs never listen to him. Maybe it's a joke about the poor discipline within the factions. Can't remember if the squad leaders only say this when they attack without my help.


---QUOTATION---
When I now have assigned a Key for it suddenly Freedom doesn't ask for my input and they attack on their own.
---END QUOTATION---


So the attack button still doesn't work? This warrants investigation! Sounds strange that assigning a key makes any difference, are you sure about that?
  23:31:22  1 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

It's really hard to get Attack-this-Position Jobs from the Factions.
It only works if there are two Squad Leaders at one location since
single Squads are in position and won't leave it. Call-to-Help are
even more difficult since you don't initiate them. They seem more
likely to hit you when you're weighted down and can't move fast.

My Faction relations prior to the Dark Valley:
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/4305/30065092.jpg

TS
  00:19:45  3 September 2010
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sunzi
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On forum: 09/30/2008
Messages: 707

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

My advice DO NOT
USE PATCH 1.5.10!!! Use Patch 1.5.08 or earlier. Jesus Christ.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



I agree. It seems that for each patch the CS became less "wild" and had fewer surprises. Maybe old bugs etc were "solved" by ironing out/ flattening out the game. I still recommend 1.5.10 for beginners, since it's the "easiest" one, but advanced gamers should stick to 1.5.08 or the one before that.

sunzi
  01:51:58  3 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/03/2010 1:52:43
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

sunzi~

I tested my theory on some Mutants. Took the Job to attack them
with 3 Loners in the Cordon. I went in with them and shot no Mutants
and got "Task Cancelled". Then I reloaded took it again and shot 1
Mutant and let them kill the others. When they shot the last Mutant
I got "Task Complete". Apparently the latest patch will only give
you credit for an actual kill and not to use an attack to go against
another Faction without participating that was extremely useful for
advancing the Faction Wars. I have found out that getting a Faction
to attack without helping them most likely gets all of them killed.

TS
  05:07:08  3 September 2010
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Genocider
Caretaker of the infamous Pseudo duck
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On forum: 03/20/2010
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I've had some experience with the attack commands. Mainly with the loners in cordon and CS in swamps as that's how I get most of my rubles. Anyway here's how it works, basically the squad depending on where they're attacking seem to go to a pre designated area, be it cover or just a few feet from where the location is. They will then take cover and wait for your signal (K or attack button) which you can press in which case they'll usually finish their animation whatever it may be usually looking around, they'll run to the location and engage. You won't get credit unless you kill one of the enemy, wounding isn't good enough. If you or the faction is spotted by the enemy the guys you're with will say they've been spotted and attack. If you run ahead and shoot an enemy the guys behind you if walking to the location will now run and engage, and if in position will just attack. The only way to get credit which I thought was with the old patches was to actually help the faction kill whatever is there. Seemed silly you'd get credit for having a faction engage other people without actually getting a kill. Although wounding should be enough imo. But I will agree it does get a tad boring in the zone with this patch, especially in the Garbage. I usually try and get to green with the bandits before going to agroprom but it seems that with mutants, they only spawn at a certain time and once they're taken down, you have to wait one in game day for this time to come again. Either way it would be nice if you could "downgrade your patch" with steam.
  21:26:29  3 September 2010
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hhiker
off to new worlds
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On forum: 10/31/2008
Messages: 4290

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

It's really hard to get Attack-this-Position Jobs from the Factions.
It only works if there are two Squad Leaders at one location since
single Squads are in position and won't leave it.
---END QUOTATION---



I understood that's how it worked with the earlier patches as well? No?
And indeed, the reload-a-game-cancel-a-task has been around as long as i've had the game (i've even expoited it sometimes.)


---QUOTATION---

Apparently the latest patch will only give
you credit for an actual kill and not to use an attack to go against
another Faction without participating that was extremely useful for
advancing the Faction Wars. I have found out that getting a Faction
to attack without helping them most likely gets all of them killed.
---END QUOTATION---


Getting cretid/task complete only for actually getting hand dirty does make sense. I can't remember for sure - wasn't that the way it worked with 1.5.08 already?
Whether a squad gets killed attacking a point without your participation, can vary a lot. I've had a Duty 3-men squad taking over the Gaprbage-Agroprom road barricades from 5 bandits with no casualties. (They had a machine gunner on board though. Still, reloading the same game and having the same squad go for the same objective, i've seen very different outcomes.)

sunzi:

---QUOTATION---
It seems that for each patch the CS became less "wild" and had fewer surprises. Maybe old bugs etc were "solved" by ironing out/ flattening out the game.
---END QUOTATION---



My point exactly
(Of course there's also the aspect that with the game less likely to crach away under your feet, the flat-from-the-start features become more visible as well.)
  04:04:50  4 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

BIG BIG CHANGE to the Clear Sky Faction Wars...

I was very surprised to see the sequence of events altered with
the 1.5.10 Patch. Previously the involvement of Duty entering
the Garbage Level was when the Faction Wars truly started with
the fighting between Duty & Freedom with the Bandits caught in
the middle. Duty leaving the Agroprom and going to Garbage
was always triggered by the flooding of the Agroprom with Scar
emerging from the Underground to the mass exodus of Dutyer
Squads moving eastward. If you went to Yantar next you would
miss everything. By following Duty to Garbage gave you the best
chance to get an RP-74, SVD/SVU or Tunder prior to going to Yantar.

I arrived in the Agroprom and avoiding talking to the Duty Commander.
I found the 3 Duty Flash Drives and did the first Quest Item with the
2nd being delayed for the Agroprom Underground journey. All my
Bandits are neutral so I'm staying out of the Loner-Bandit struggle.
I gave the Loner Tech 2 of the Flash Drives but didn't have the 3rd.
I went to the Duty Commander triggering the next mission to go in
the Hole to the Underground. Then I was able to buy the information
to get the 3rd Flash Drive and when I did that I noticed Duty was now
on the move early. Duty was sending Squads to Garbage while I was
expected to go into the Agroprom Underground and miss all the action.

Yeah right....I immediately decided to delay my trip to the Hole in the
ground and followed Duty into Garbage. With the Bandits removed
from the Garbage Checkpoint I could get in safely wwithout hostility
or being mugged and maintain my good relations. This meant all my
time in the Agroprom buying a SEVA Suit from Duty and spending
every ruble on upgrades was a good thing. All I needed was the 3rd
Tier upgrade from my friend Limpid and I would be more than ready
for the Agroprom Underground. Here's some Screenshots of my story:

Found Duty on the move early and decided to follow them to Garbage:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8278/fw01a.jpg

Had to visit the Pseudogiant first. Duty doesn't seem to have as good
equipment ( RP-74s & Tunders ) as in earlier versions of the CS Patches:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4181/fw02.jpg

Duty already has fought and won access to the Garbage level:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8066/fw03.jpg

Instead of going straight to the two exits points to the Dark Valley
like before Duty ventured north to stake out unclaimed territory:
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8088/fw04.jpg

I was unprepared for being able to get the last needed upgrade.
Limpid wants 12,500 rubles and I only have 864 rubles on me:
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/359/fw05.jpg

In this Patch the Bandits have focused on just preventing Freedom
at the northern exit point. Duty has stopped moving so I need a
way to go earn some money. I think I know just the place for that:
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9529/fw06.jpg

Ran down through the Cordon and to the Marshes. Of course now
that I have a lot of AK ammo Clear Sky wants more RGD-5 Grenades:
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/7600/fw07.jpg

Made it back to Garbage in half a day & paid Limpid the money he needed:
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/6494/fw08.jpg

Sweet. Now I have a fully upgraded 3rd Tier Environmental SEVA.
Now all I need is a fully upgraded RP-74 before going to the Yantar:
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/8461/fw09.jpg

This is one change that is not necessarily all that bad if you're ready.

TS
  23:46:43  4 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/04/2010 23:47:19
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I'm seeing something even more disturbing with the 1.5.10 Patch.

When Duty entered Garbage there were no Bandit bodies or dropped weapons.

All my Agroprom Bandits have vanished without a trace. This means
no constant attacks at the Loner's Base in the Agroprom that produced
a huge amount of casualties and dropped weapons from both sides.
While it was an effort to make constant Manual Saves to keep the
Loner Trader alive, this means no huge amount of Loot = no money.

I had two Bandit Squads at the Digger's Camp in eastern Garbage.
At the Bus Station nearby was a single Dutyer with the only Tunder
I've seen before. I went to the Agroprom to trigger some more action
( no luck ) and when I returned to Garbage the 1.5.10 patch magically
made the 2 Bandit Squads vanish with no battle and they were replaced
by the single nearby Dutyer that suddenly had lost his Tunder and it was
replaced by an AK ( believe me I'm watching all movements in all levels
on my PDA no matter which Level I'm in ) It's like the Game decides to
make bloodless battles happen with no bodies, no dropped weapons and
no real action. Vasyan in the Garbage Valley vanished between Level
movement with no battle or Mutant attack. My Renegades in the Red
Forest Mine vanished with no battle or Mutant attack. Things like this
really suck how there are changes happening that simply respawn this
way when Levels are reloaded after movement between them. The
Faction Wars is not a War. It's a vanishing act without Loot or Bodies.

TS
  01:36:12  5 September 2010
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Danlo
The Lazy Writer
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On forum: 10/21/2008
Messages: 5198
TS I've been using the .10 patch since it came out and have had none of the problems you are having, except those that everyone has - the whole squads getting lost and not getting to where they are going and tbh I think by .10 they decided to fix bigger problems that the unfixable faction wars.
  03:27:16  5 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/05/2010 3:29:49
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Yeah...I seem to be so lucky.

I play Priboi Story and get 1,000 Blowouts and then
other people Post that never have more than a dozen.

GSC should hire me to find the all these problems since
they seem to be attracted to me like a Moth to a Flame.

I have yet to see exactly what the 1.5.10 Patch has fixed
except to neuter the Faction Wars and gimp the Game.

The Marshes still happen too fast and you can't be everywhere
and you miss half the action. There's still no 3rd Cordon Flash Drive
and the Faction Wars are in the worst shape I've seen in any Patch.

TS
  03:43:33  5 September 2010
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x_Spartan_x
Whos got the Kokoretsi?
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On forum: 07/07/2009
Messages: 1971

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review
......................
The Marshes still happen too fast and you can't be everywhere
and you miss half the action. There's still no 3rd Cordon Flash Drive
and the Faction Wars are in the worst shape I've seen in any Patch.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Marshes can be slowed down, many ways. the 3rd flash drive is one of first resons i started modding CS (i had no intention to, after spending 8 months doing my personal Shoc mod at home). Althou ,this might sound stupid, has any GSC ever poped up and said" by the way, the flash 3rd is in there, just no one has ever found it". althou i know i might be wrong, cause i never found it in the data.

actaully after reading the thread, i never knew there was such a change.

probly very minute and the randomnes of the faction war parts, just make it seem that way. if we stopped at v1.5.08, we would say same for that as we do for v1.5.10? maybe?

but all this means nothing, if useing a mod.
  03:56:23  5 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
I didn't do it.
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On forum: 03/21/2010
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Tejas, that's because you do the extreme. You stay months, when GSC designs this game for a few weeks in the zone. CoP was designed for months, SoC just worked well, and CS works randomly.
  04:02:50  5 September 2010
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hhiker
off to new worlds
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On forum: 10/31/2008
 

Message edited by:
hhiker
09/05/2010 4:07:48
Messages: 4290
*ahem...*


---QUOTATION---

...
I have yet to see exactly what the 1.5.10 Patch has fixed
except to neuter the Faction Wars and gimp the Game
...
---END QUOTATION---



While from the perspective of game-in-game phenomena and challenges - like our tests and other comparisons or tournaments that rely on one or other ingame factor working in a given way in order to allow the comparison, a patch changing those factors is certainly an inconvinience...

... i think it's fair to keep in mind that there never has been a Clear Sky golden age when things worked the way as many of us would have liked to. Some things also didn't work the way they were supposed to but most did and most do. The objectives that the game was designed to meet were never in perfect unison with what one or other gamer specifically wished the game to fulfil (2 months of exploration?- no can do ... but with a compromise you'll manage; countless artifacts? - not on the menu ... but with a compromise you'll manage.) Clear Sky has been one big compromise from the beginning - and a fairly manageable one for that matter.

So really- gimped compared to what exactly?
The game has never been brilliant as a whole - but it was OK and it still is.
  04:05:38  5 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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On forum: 03/21/2010
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Huh? Were you replying to me?
  04:06:50  5 September 2010
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hhiker
off to new worlds
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On forum: 10/31/2008
Messages: 4290

---QUOTATION---
Huh? Were you replying to me?
---END QUOTATION---



No, i was typing while you posted.
I'll add a quote for clarification.
  04:08:11  5 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
I didn't do it.
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On forum: 03/21/2010
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Ok. Just a misunderstanding
  05:53:26  5 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/05/2010 5:54:40
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Well...I emerged from the Agroprom Underground without a CTD.

Duty Faction not on the move.

Gave the Dutyer his Case. Talked to the Duty Leader
and got no points in the Faction scale for helping them.
He gave me 10,000 rubles but my standing with Duty
did not budge. After talking to him...

Duty Faction still not on the move.

Before in previous Patches I had over a hundred well armed Dutyers
with RP-74s, Tunders and scoped Abakans pouring into Garbage
fighting Bandits, attacking all the Freedom positions and getting
a foothold in the Dark Valley. You know...the FACTION WARS.

Now I have NOTHING.

Not one single Dutyer has attacked Freedom.
Not one single Freedomer has attacked Duty.

Duty has taken up a few empty positions
in Garbage but there is no fighting anywhere.

Without 2 Squads in one position you can't get any to move.

Even the Duty positions are shrinking. There were 4 Dutyers
at the Garbage entrance. Then 3 and now 2. At the Agroprom
exit to Garbage were 4 Dutyers. Then 3...then 2...now there is 1.

No Mutants have killed them. No attacks by other Factions.
People are just vanishing. No bodies. No dropped weapons.

I have Mutants in the Marshes, Cordon, Agroprom & Garbage
but no Faction is interested or offers any Jobs to go kill them.

I saw more Faction Wars at Yanov Station.

TS
  06:12:35  5 September 2010
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SetaKat
Ex modder, Zones only ferret and will someday release a game
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On forum: 02/20/2010
Messages: 6340
Strange, you must have really bad luck. I don't really have any problems. As I pointed out in the liquidator test 9 thread, duty doesn't advance in the faction wars unless you join them. The will send some squads out to target the barrier occasionally, but if the squads they currently have exceed their current faction cap, no more squads are spawned. With a squad cap of 30 at that point, Duty should be spawning like crazy, since all there existing squads add up to something like 14 of that cap
Battles on offline levels don't leave any bodies or weapons. The game simply gets the power of the attacking and defending squads, and which ever is greater, wins. It removes a few npcs to simulate deaths on the victors squad as well.
I've had duty make it all the way into Dark Valley in 1.5.10 once, and this was without joining a faction (although the squad did have an exo with a pkm). No two playthoughs are ever the same.
Two squads in a smart terrain will offer a job to attack another smart terrain, if and only if there is a squad camped there that doesn't belong to their faction.
  06:22:10  5 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

This is greatly disappointing. I've never gone to Yantar before
without a fully upgraded RP-74. There's only 1 in my Game
and the Exoskeleton carrying it won't leave the Duty Base.

TS
  07:41:18  5 September 2010
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SetaKat
Ex modder, Zones only ferret and will someday release a game
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On forum: 02/20/2010
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He's scripted to stay there, unfortunately.
  11:09:10  5 September 2010
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hhiker
off to new worlds
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On forum: 10/31/2008
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---QUOTATION---
Strange, you must have really bad luck.
---END QUOTATION---



Actually, my game has behaved rather similar to what Tejas described here - see the Test 10 thread pages 2 and 4 and you see that i've had similar or comparable Duty-related issues. (I mean "issues" in the situation where you'd want them on the constant move.)
  18:50:46  5 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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sunzi,

---QUOTATION---
It seems that for each patch the CS became less "wild" and had fewer surprises.
---END QUOTATION---


I guess if some of the variety in CS comes from certain bugs then of course fixing those bugs will result in a more predictable game.


---QUOTATION---

Maybe old bugs etc were "solved" by ironing out/ flattening out the game.

---END QUOTATION---


Yes that's quite likely too.

I fear that the constant whining from the Newbie Faction about how buggy CS is compared with CoP doesn't bide well for future stalker games...
  19:10:01  5 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/05/2010 19:10:51
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

All the things I'm complaining about in the Agroprom, Garbage and
Dark Valley ( Faction Wars ) were never the things I had all the big
problems with. Sure I would get a crash a few times but nothing I
couldn't keep going with. It was the Army Warehouses & Limansk
Levels that brought my Game to a screaming stop. By that time
all the Faction Wars to the south were over with & really inactive.

TS
  22:04:01  5 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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I should clarify that I wasn't trying to troll Tejas Stalker (or anyone else in the thread) when I wrote "Newbie Faction", rather I was thinking of those that more or less refuse to play CS because it's "too buggy".
  22:15:48  5 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Three Mile Island~

I figured you were talking about the new players to CoP that
never gave CS a try because of it's reputation. Even with it's
bugginess it's still playable and a whole lot of fun. One of the
best moments I ever had in any Stalker Game was playing CS:
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8409/lefty.jpg

TS
  22:24:29  5 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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---QUOTATION---
I figured you were talking about the new players to CoP that never gave CS a try because of it's reputation.
---END QUOTATION---


Yes, and also the older players that base their opinions on the first versions and refuse to patch it (not necessarily to version 1.5.10...).

Then there might be a few that mistake challenging tasks with bugs.


---QUOTATION---

Even with it's bugginess it's still playable and a whole lot of fun.
---END QUOTATION---


Very much so! Currently in my 9th game. Bugs have never bothered me more in CS than in SoC or CoP.
  23:49:31  5 September 2010
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hhiker
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---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review
It was the Army Warehouses & Limansk
Levels that brought my Game to a screaming stop.
---END QUOTATION---



As far as my experience goes, it's not the levels themselves but rather the extended time spent in game that will eventually be too much for the game to handle. Towards the end of October, no matter what the map (or the patch), i've started experiencing g.script errors.
(Just so you know that part is still out there waiting )
  00:49:02  6 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Plan A required me having the Faction Wars
take place to get an RP-74 before Yantar.

Luckily Plan B still works with any Patch:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4434/planbr.jpg

Dang. It's already October 10th in my Game ( 1 Month )
I wanted Game stability more than anything in a Patch.

Sounds like the latest Patch fixed none of the things it should
but instead focused on changing the things that it shouldn't have.

TS
  01:31:06  6 September 2010
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Dezaster
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

The best experience I had playing CS was when I used PATCH 1.5.03.
Latest patch makes the game uber boring... almost like COP.

Nothing random happens in the Zone with PATCH 1.5.10
  02:31:28  6 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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I like 1.5.03 also, but 07 is probably my favorite, because it's balanced between bugs and FWs.
  19:11:51  6 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Now I took a task from Freedom to attack Bandits in Garbage (the small swamp next to Flea Market). Just like Tejas Stalker wrote, the Freedomer's went up close to the Bandits, asked for my attack signal but started shooting anyway. None of the bullets hurt the Bandits, who ignored the Freedomers, but once I gave the attack signal bullets began doing damage and the Bandits immediately started shooting back.
  19:25:09  6 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Isn't that ridiculous? The battles like that should be just like the Marshes.
Clear Sky is capable of shooting the Renegades whether you help or not.
Almost every attack in Garbage would fail if I didn't help participate in it.

TS
  20:18:44  6 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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Three Mile Island
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I guess they shouldn't normally win without your help --after all they didn't consider it worthwhile to move against an enemy squad until you came along and offered support. Maybe Faction War campaigns make the squads more suicidal/aggressive, while even in Swamps the Machine Yard NPCs don't attack the Encampment near the truck without your help. But starting to fire blank shots before the attack signal doesn't make sense at all. Can't it be avoided due to the AI engine? If so I'd rather sacrifice the attack button feature...

Another thing that probably existed before this patch: when you approach Bandits at the Garbage level changers they want your money, so you normally avoid them. But since I had very little money this time anyway I thought I would heed a Bandit squad's call for help against mutants. Unfortunately the Bandits started shooting at me instead of the mutants for some reason, and a few times the Bandits disappeared in thin air (at the level changer to Red Forest).
  23:40:43  6 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/06/2010 23:41:52
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

You can't safely approach the Bandit Squads at any of the Level
Changers with a weapon drawn. This means you have to let
them rob you. If you get a Call-to-Help at any of the Bandit
Level Changers ( like to the Red Forest ) you can't help them
because if you bring out your weapon to fight Mutants they
will get hostile. Not a good idea to take any Quest Item from
the Bandits at the Level Changers too. I don't want to get
robbed so I enter a Level and when a Blowout is triggered
and the NPCs vanish, I use this opportunity to run by their
momentarily empty positions to get to the Levels I want to.
I also used this method to recover the Duty Secret PDA when
the Bandits were still in control of that Checkpoint. In my
current Game the Bandits retook all the Level Changers in
Garbage going to the Agroprom so I either have to use the
Blowout Method or make the long detour through the Marshes.

TS
  00:27:49  7 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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---QUOTATION---
if you bring out your weapon to fight Mutants they
will get hostile.
---END QUOTATION---


Alas they got hostile even with my weapon holstered. I couldn't even let them rob me.
  01:04:30  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Looks like Clear Sky hasn't changed a bit...

Even with the latest Patch it's the same old thing.

I went down to the Marshes to earn some money and
I've been in the Game just a few days past a month.

Manual Save in the Marshes = CTD.

Trying to leave the Marshes to another Level = CTD.

CTD CTD CTD CTD CTD CTD CTD CTD CTD CTD CTD CTD.

They should rename the Game Crash-To-Desktop Sky.

TS
  01:16:26  8 September 2010
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SetaKat
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~Tejas
Error logs!
Come down off your high horse, and stop complaining.
You've nothing but slander the 1.5.10 patch as hard as you can, and complain about how broken it is, and how its even more buggy than the previous ones. Guess what? Welcome to the world of CS faction war mechanics, it has more bugs in it than a gardening center (although most of them don't cause ctds thankfully).
Give us the error log, and we can provide a solution or fix, since its highly unlikely GSC will be releasing any more patches despite all your whining.
You seem to be a magnet for bad luck in your games, I've played through CS on 1.5.10 several times, and haven't had any ctds.
  01:56:19  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

fluffy22~

Actually I played SoC for over 8 months without the ZRP and my
longest Game of CoP was almost 9 months without major problems.
It's only CS that I have been unlucky with. But you are correct that
I do need to post my Error Logs and see exactly what the problem is.

And believe it or not I still love CS. It is just stunning when it works.

TS
  02:15:25  8 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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Plus your troubles with Priboi, a mod that works excelent for most.
  02:30:56  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Well... I may have had trouble with Priboi Story for too many Blowouts
compared to others with excess Mutants killing all the important NPCs
but that's the way the Mod was created. Priboi Story was fairly stable
especially in Pripyat that was impressive. The most important thing
to me in any Stalker Game is stability. To be able to do what I want
to and go where I want to without CTDs forcing me to do otherwise.

I was going to the Cordon and then to the Marshes so I could sneak back
into the Agroprom since the Bandits defeated Duty at the Level Changer.
( Got my 2nd RP-74 ) I make plenty of Manual Saves. If I can't get out
of the Marshes I'll restart in the Cordon and use a Blowout to get past
the Garbage Bandits if I have to. Maybe it's all my fault for not using
the SRP before I undertook my current Game. I had too much faith
in the latest Clear Sky Patch that I probably should have known better.

TS
  03:02:55  8 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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Try giving Fluffy (Or me, but I doubt I could help) the error log, it'll save you some time.
  03:14:58  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I forgot to mention that even the Bugtrap Program is having the CTDs.
When I get a CTD my Game crashes without any error documentation.

TS
  03:20:39  8 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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That happens to me in SoC. Go to C:/Public/public documents/logs/****log

Tell the "Fatal Error" section.
  03:25:37  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

FATAL ERROR

[error]Expression : fatal error
[error]Function : CScriptEngine::lua_error
[error]File : E:\priquel\sources\engine\xrServerEntities\script_engine.cpp
[error]Line : 180
[error]Description : <no expression>
[error]Arguments : LUA error: ....t.a.l.k.e.r. - clear sky\gamedata\scripts\_g.script:975: bad argument #2 to 'format' (string expected, got nil)

TS
  03:39:09  8 September 2010
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SetaKat
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there should be a [ERROR][LUA] line or something like that above it, give us that, as that will tell us what script is calling the abort function which gives that error log.
  04:03:24  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

! attempt to use non-existent INFOPORTION [agr_smart_terrain_7_4_duty_1_squad_dead]
* Saving spawns...
* Saving objects...
! [LUA][ERROR] ERROR: You are saving too much

Saving too many objects? Making too many Manual Saves?
Why can't the CS Game ever handle a Player like myself?

TS
  04:09:05  8 September 2010
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SetaKat
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You have too many items/objects in your game (in inventory boxes, lying around uncollected (artifacts, weapons), etc, etc).
I've noticed this error in three playthoughs on 1.5.10, each time the person playing the game tends to make very large stashes of items.
Unfortunately, there is no fix for this. I could increase the limits, but they exist to prevent saves getting too big and corrupted. Also, once you start experiencing these errors, you will be continued to be plagued by them. Sadly, starting a new game is the only option.
  04:26:17  8 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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Could he ditch his stuff?
  04:38:10  8 September 2010
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SetaKat
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Yes, cart it all off to a trader and sell it, and that will work for a couple of saves (doesn't matter if they're quick, auto, or manual), before the error resurfaces.
  04:42:40  8 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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Damn. Glad I'm not a hoarder. So if he got rid of everything ('Cept for the PKM, or course) it would resurface, no matter what?
  04:50:39  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Actually I was waiting to tell you that I got so fed up with the lack
of activity in the Faction Wars that I completely uninstalled the Game
and only Patched up to 1.5.08. Does this make any difference or would
Patching up to 1.5.10 help me any? I'm so sick of CS being completely
trashed after such a short time playing. It seems like if you want to see
the ending you have to rush to Limansk wearing a Leather Jacket with a
Sawn-Off Shotgun. What's the point in getting upgrades if I can't use them?

TS
  04:53:54  8 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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It's not that bad Tejas, I've had a four month playthrough, but then I screwed up a script (Playing with OGSM mod, because it adds more mutants, and just balances the game alot) and had to start a new game. Your playstyle just doesn't fit.
  04:59:54  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I could try to go back a few days and start massively selling off stuff.
Once I start getting CTDs all the fun is really sucked out of the Game.
Without the Faction Wars working as it did before it really crimps the
desire to start a new Game. What the f*ck did the 1.5.10 fix exactly?
All the things that are glaring obvious to me have not been touched.

TS
  05:00:18  8 September 2010
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SetaKat
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Message edited by:
SetaKat
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Messages: 6340
Patch doesn't affect it.
We need a good all round mod that actually enhances the base faction war features, and prevents the stagnation that starts to occur. I have my game modded so I can do deliver item tasks for the 4 main factions, and if things dry up, I go kill off a squad, and regain standings using the deliver item tasks.

EDIT:
1.5.10 changes.
Patch v1.5.10 for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky improving both the download and retail versions of the game.

1.5.04 - 1.5.09 saved games will be compatible with patch 1.5.10

General changes:
- fixed renderer critical errors
- fixed Alt+TAB task switch error, when the OS didn’t have other windowed applications running

Single player:
- fixed an error with stalkers using non-combat smart-covers during fight

Network game:
- fixed an error with different CD-key case
- console command make_config_dump no longer leads to game crashes
- console command make_config_dump no longer leads to FPS reduction
- improved anti-cheating system
- added important packages encryption feature
- extended the number of parameters transferred by make_config_dump console command
- changed the system of banned player check

Since there is nothing todo with alife here, it might be 1.5.09 that gimped it.
  05:04:00  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

What about my using the 1.5.08?

Would re-installing the1.5.10 help?

I didn't even know a 1.5.09 even existed.

I ask for so little. I just want the Game NOT TO CRASH.

Why is that so hard? Does the SRP help that in any way?

TS
  09:07:03  8 September 2010
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hhiker
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---QUOTATION---

What about my using the 1.5.08?

Would re-installing the1.5.10 help?

---END QUOTATION---



Didn't help me at the time. Based on the similarities between our games and comparable ingame choices i'd guess it's not too likely:
http://tinyurl.com/33ar5eg
  10:34:30  8 September 2010
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SetaKat
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I actually advise against using a 'fixed' _g.script. All it does is apply a band aid to the wound which is bubbling with infection. It looks better, but there's still the main problem underneath it. It adjusts the abort call, which prints out the error reason, and then deliberately crashes the game. The fixed _g.script removes the part of the abort call that causes the crash, and if a script has to call abort, its always for a damn good reason - usually to help prevent the game from doing actions that could possibly cause corrupted saves.
The problem with your game Tejas is that the amount of ingame objects is so big, the game cannot always safely save all of the required objects, so it aborts the save. You can go back to an earlier save, and try getting rid of stuff, but I don't know how much time that will buy you. From my experience, once you start encountering this particular abort call in a playthough, you can expect to see it quite often.
  13:55:14  8 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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---QUOTATION---


I ask for so little. I just want the Game NOT TO CRASH.

Why is that so hard? Does the SRP help that in any way?

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Ugh. Stop whining. Fluffy is trying to help you, and the game is crashing for a reason by the looks of things. To keep you from getting corrupted saves. I don't think GSC would even think of people having this issue. So how were they supposed to fix it?
  14:43:17  8 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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I've been playing CS from patch 1.5.05(?) to 1.5.10 with almost no CTDs (and no gamestopping recurring ones). A couple of my games have been pretty long too (months).


---QUOTATION---
I could try to go back a few days and start massively selling off stuff.
---END QUOTATION---


What is it that you're keeping in such large quantities? I don't sell artifacts, and in one game collected all the suits, and usually keep the high end weapons. I don't collect unique quest weapons or every other kind of weapon/upgrade combination, though.

Will ammo boxes count as separate items? If so I guess they'll add up.

How about weapons lying around on the ground? I always stash the ones I don't keep or sell on non-permanent bodies so they disappear. Despite that I got piles of weapons in a recent game that I simply didn't have time to collect between fights.
  15:22:12  8 September 2010
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hhiker
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similar playstyle, similar obstacles (personally no problem though)

Actually, it is very familiar to me too to have the "you are saving too much" error kicking in soon after one month a gameplay. (Patches 1.5.05, 1.5.08, 1.5.10; i'm talking clean installs and saves - it was made clear to me a while ago the g.script fix wasn't indeed a good idea.)

I consider myself a (selective) hoarder:
trophy items (some long-served weapons, quest items, weapons related to some special character);
all artifacts,
a selection of weapons and ammo.
I make sure the weapons on the ground get always (eventually) picked up and sold or placed on disappearing bodies - "keep the Zone clean".

Ammo, food and med-items do tend to pile up after a while. Also, the refilling campsite storage boxes, i noticed, can get quite bulky when not attended to.
I don't know if that would be enough to cross the critical limit of objects though.

For me the whole 'CTD-s limit playtime' wasn't something new or unheard of, more like an everyday reality. I just haven't found it such a problem because after getting to know Clear Sky thoroughly i've been quite aware what i can expect from the game and what not. Also, for specific objectives (tracing the storyline specifics, solving tests, experimenting), i've branched a whole lot of different paths originating from the same maingame, so that my actual playtime doesn't add up to one long game.
  15:35:26  8 September 2010
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SetaKat
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There are actually two abort calls with this error message. I might modify the messages to display different messages, which will allow me to see where the problem is occurring - is it occurring if the contents of the save is too big, or is it occurring when it tries to see if it can safely save?
  15:53:35  8 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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---QUOTATION---
From my experience, once you start encountering this particular abort call in a playthough, you can expect to see it quite often.
---END QUOTATION---


Unless there's some underlying problem, the above only makes sense if you keep hoarding like before until you reach the limit again.

Can we rule out that there's not some kind of item clearing bug causing the problem? For example, perhaps the game removes dead NPCs but doesn't remove all its records of them properly.
  17:14:25  8 September 2010
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SetaKat
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I've encountered it three times.
In each case, the player had hoarder tendencies, or stash boxes had filled up, or both.
All games had been running for more than several ingame weeks.
When an npc is killed, the are removed from their squad in sim_board. When there are no more npcs in the squad, the squad is removed.
I've had playthoughs where I kept the number of box items down to ~50 per box (including spare ammo and artifacts), and haven't encountered these sorts of errors.
Like I said, there are two of these abort calls. If I could figure out what one was causing the crash, I might be able to get a fix or a workaround (but it wouldn't be clean).
Another thing is Message logs: The game also needs to save these as well. I suspect in some cases, these might be one of the culprits. They do tend to fill up very quickly. And I cannot find a reference to the loading and saving of these via script, so it might be engine managed. Still, it might use the same checks as the scripts do for saving.
  18:49:02  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/08/2010 18:50:33
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

The information y'all provided may actually be helpful. I believe I might
have several Stash Chests that got automatically filled that I have never
emptied. I recently discovered that the Guard Shack at the Concentration
Camp was full of stuff. I think I had peeked in there before not seeing it
on the right like in SoC, only to look again later finding it on the left. It was
full of everything from ammo to food. Another one I recently discovered
was the Bandit Chest in Garbage going to the southern Agroprom. I only
just went there and cleaned up all the weapons on the ground during a
Blowout when the Bandits would disappear in the middle of the Blowout.
Duty has never managed to take this position. I need to find all the
Stash Chests that are undiscovered. Could one be filling up in Yantar
even though I have not gone there yet since 4 Loner Squads are there?

Any other locations that I may have missed that are Auto-Fill like these?

TS
  22:26:24  8 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/08/2010 22:27:32
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I was able to go back to a previous Manual Save up in the Cordon where
I started selling off stuff like crazy. I have now been going back & forth
between the Cordon and Garbage making 3 trips to massively sell off
everything I can. It's amazing how I can go to a Cordon Blowout to
a Garbage Blowout and back to another Cordon Blowout and then
back to a Garbage Blowout that I used to sneak past the Bandits
back into the Agroprom where I am now ready to go to Yantar.

TS
  00:29:54  9 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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Changes in squad attacks?

One thing I've noticed when defending the Encampment Near Truck (close to Machine Yard in Swamps) against the Renegade enforcements is that Clear Sky NPCs start shooting from a much larger distance.

In Cordon I've noticed that squads sometimes stay out of the mutant's roaming range, thus making it harder for me to kill NPCs without shooting by sacrificing them to the mutants. Squad leaders seem especially cautious.

Did any of this happen in earlier patches?
  00:56:13  9 September 2010
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SetaKat
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If you send the squad out to attack, and then give the order, they hang back. However, if you bugger off 50 meters or so, the squad attacks on their own, often one or two members running right up to the mutants.

Boxes only refill while the level is active. I once had ~200 of each shotgun ammo in the swamps box, and after a week off level, still had ~200. A days worth running around doing missions for leaders and searching for artifacts, had put another ~40 rounds of each into the box.

That box at the concentration yard is a pita to empty sometimes. I swear it fills faster than the others.
  01:24:22  9 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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So fluffy, 50 items per box? This is every box? Does this mean, say 50 g36's with different condition (So they don't stack) or 50 g36's that stack?
  01:31:05  9 September 2010
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SetaKat
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Cleaning out whatever items respawn and selling them.
I try to do this to every box I can.
50 g36's that don't stack or 50 g36's that do stack are still 50 g36's, although I would perfer stacking - not as many different icons need to be created in the box. I've never got the g36 in any of my vanilla playthroughs. Scored 2 off bandits within 10 minutes on PreSky.
  06:17:50  9 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I managed to get 1 SVD and 1 SGI before going to the Dark Valley and
1 Tunder and 2 RP-74s before going to Yantar. VLAs were really easy
to get this time since almost every Bandit Squad seem to have one.
I probably won't see a GP37 until going to the Army Warehouses.

TS
  20:23:11  9 September 2010
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/09/2010 20:28:17
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

fluffy22~

Any idea how many objects Clear Sky considers too many to save?
I got rid of about 8,000 objects but it's still crashing and saying the
same even though going to Yantar just generated a bunch more.
I've currently got about 23,000 and it's complaining. I remember
seeing over 30,000 in SoC & CoP and they ran fine. Why is it
that Clear Sky was made the most weakest and delicate of all?

If I knew what the limit or trigger number was I could have a goal.
Of course Yantar is always a pain in the ass because you have to
leave the Level for any Repairs or to sell all of the used weapons.
Why Sakharov was made to be so useless is just beyond me. Sigh.

TS
  23:34:45  9 September 2010
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Teh Soul Eater
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Well, just try to even out your boxes, about 50 items in each. There are alot of boxes, and using stashes might help.

BTW, Fluffy said, once this starts, it stays.

I think CoP ran because they made the engine do items like it did in SoC.
  00:49:51  10 September 2010
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SetaKat
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Message edited by:
SetaKat
09/10/2010 0:56:21
Messages: 6340
Do remember the game has to save the positions of items, artifacts, steel boxes, wooden crates, inventory box and stash contents, npcs and their contents, info portions, dialogs, bodies, etc etc etc. The list goes on for several more lines.
CS is much more of a 'full' game than CoP or SoC. It's more heavily populated, and as such, more stuff needs to be saved to the file. All it takes is one thing too much out of any of those things I've just listed, and it all goes over like a house of cards. I don't know the save limits on CoP/SoC, but I'll look to see what they are, and if they are the same as CS, or different.

EDIT:
SoC doesn't set limits, looking into CoP.

EDIT2:
CoP uses the same save limits as CS, so its likely CS crashes for the reasons above.
  02:30:53  10 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Apparently I kept getting CTDs in Yantar from attempting to make
Manual Saves to keep my progress up to certain events there. I then
decided to focus on getting rid of items from the Zombies I had killed
before I did anything else. I took a full load of Zombie weapons to
the Agroprom a couple of times and emptied my Agroprom and my
Garbage Stashes again and got some reward money down in the
Cordon. I just returned to Yantar and made a Manual Save okay.
I think 23,000 might be the magic number keeping it below that.

Zombie weapons and excess ammo being loaded up at my largest
Stash in the Game at Yantar where all my current weapons are
including my stockpiling PP ammo for helping Lefty. At this point
in the Game I have 7,581 rubles prior to going to the Agroprom:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9656/7581.jpg

After selling weapons to the Loner Trader I now have 8,517 rubles.
Here I am at my Loner Base Stash loading up excess ammo to take
to the Duty Base Trader that pays better than the Loners for ammo:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/262/8517.jpg

2,822 objects ( ammo ) sold to the Duty Trader for 7,074 rubles:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4814/8827.jpg

I grabbed my VLA for going back to Yantar for another load of Zombie
weapons. I have 15,901 rubles and my Agroprom Stash is really small:
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4629/15901.jpg

I dropped off the VLA and left my Armored SEVA in Yantar. I went back
to the Agroprom with only my Environmental SEVA and my AKSU. While
there I grabbed my CS-1 and slipped into the Garbage Level. At the
Flea Market I grabbed all the excess ammo, Food and other Items.
My Flea Market Stash is just full of Pistols and some older weapons:
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/205/17552.jpg

I dropped off the Souvenir Grenade in my Flea Market Trophy Stash.
I next sold excess Food to Borov and then stopped by the Concentration
Camp to empty the Stash Chest full of Food, Ammo and other supplies:
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7114/17552b.jpg

I picked up 8,000 rubles from the Loner Trader in the Cordon for previous
Jobs giving me 25,902 total. I then sold 10,100 rubles worth of excess
ammo, scopes and other supplies that made up a total of 1,974 objects:
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/2374/25902.jpg

I had left Garbage going straight to the Loner Trader and then immediately
turned around going back to Garbage. I ran over to the Concentration
Camp ( fully staffed with several Bandit Squads and Loner Prisoners )
just to see how quickly the Stash filled up again. In that short amount
of time it had already generated almost 100 items. I have 37,454 rubles:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4793/37454.jpg

I sold the Food items to Borov again and slipped back into the Agroprom.
Arriving at my Loner Base Stash I already had some new NATO ammo.
I now had 37,825 rubles heading back to Yantar to resume my Game:
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2013/37825.jpg

I was able to make a successful Manual Save there thanks to my actions.

TS
  03:00:30  10 September 2010
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SetaKat
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2,822 bullets != 2,822 objects for ~98% of cases. The other ~2% has = instead of !

2,822 objects ( ammo ) is the bullet count.
If you have two boxes of 9x18 ammo and a empty PMm pistol, the game sees three objects in your inventory: A pistol, and 2 boxes of ammo with 50 rounds each.
If you load the pistol, the game reduces on ammo box size by 8, and adds 8 bullets to the gun. So you have a gun with 8 bullets and a boox with 50, and another with 42. You still have three objects
If you unload the gun, the game creates a box of ammo with 8 rounds in it. So while you may have the same ammo count as when you started, you have an extra box of ammo due to the loading and unloading of the pistol, and hence an extra object in your inventory.
A bullet simply doesn't equal an ammo object. An ammo object has a number of bullets inside of it, anywhere from 1 to whatever the maximum is (usually 30, 50 or 60).
Put simply, the game sees things differently to us. We see 180 bullets, the game sees 10 boxes of 18 rounds each (for example), or any combination of numbers to equal that 180.

If I can get something easy (grenades, ammo from corpses in Garbage/stash boxes), I just tend to sell them, and keep only what I need + a small emergency reserve. If its difficult or obtain, or one of a kind, I stash it somewhere safe.
  03:33:20  10 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

fluffy22~

That makes sense. I appreciate you taking the time to explain
things from a Modders point of view since I'm really only a Player.

TS
  03:36:52  10 September 2010
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SetaKat
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Thats the difference between players and modders - we know the current capacities and limitations of a game, and players don't. And some take it the wrong way when we tell them their suggestion isn't simply going to work/isn't possible, although your not part of that category as far as I can tell.
  03:43:43  10 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I'll always be the first to admit that most all my knowledge is based
upon my long experience Playing and never reading the Game Files.

TS
  23:48:06  10 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/10/2010 23:52:51
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Various Scenes from Yantar~

My Loadout to go help Lefty. Plenty of RP-74 ammo:
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3146/yan01.jpg

I shot all the Zombies over the wall and a few Loners
went ahead in there early before I even talked to Lefty:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5777/yan02.jpg

Lefty doesn't really care if I'm ready or click the word "Clear"
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2592/yan03.jpg

Go to the roof...yeah right. Not the roof you want me to:
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6449/yan04.jpg

Here's where the Environmental SEVA & fully upgraded RP-74 pay off:
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7164/yan05.jpg

Nothing like an RP-74 to stop those Zombies quickly for Lefty:
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/7706/yan06.jpg

Of course when I got back to the Loner Base my damaged SEVA cost me:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8122/yan07.jpg

I returned several times to pick up dropped weapons. Everyone was gone
so it was amusing the Message I got when I stepped in the right place:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/316/yan08.jpg

I caught up with Lefty again with 2 Squads up in the north-east corner:
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/799/yan09.jpg

Had to keep an eye on the nearby Stash Chest since it was a generator:
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2292/yan10.jpg

Play it again Lefty:
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4515/yan11.jpg

No Freedom...no Renegades...4 Squads of Duty await me:
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5042/yan12.jpg

Preparing my Load for going to the Red Forest:
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3613/yan13.jpg

TS
  01:15:22  11 September 2010
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SetaKat
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I've always done the roof mission with a Battle SEVA. Doesn't take as much damage, and the psi damage doesn't seem to hurt that bad.
  01:56:39  11 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

It's not the Armored SEVA I needed for it's BP protection since no
Zombies had a chance to shoot me. It's the 75% protection for
Telepathy I wanted that actually wears down my Suit. I had the
worst Artifacts helping me compared to previous Games. No Eye
this time but only a Kolobok which means I had to use a few Medkits.

TS
  00:17:45  13 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I went ahead and re-installed the 1.5.10 Patch to see if it would help me.
It did not change anything for what is still happening in the Red Forest.

I am able to do a few things in the Red Forest before 1 of 3 things will happen:

- CTD making any Manual Save trying to save my progress.
- CTD attempting to leave the RF Level to save my progress.
- CTD waiting 12 Game Time hours to pass for the Auto-Save.

I managed to approach the Loner Ambush which makes them shoot
at me. ( tried hugging the right wall but they always get activated )
I ran back avoiding a confrontation and because the Task Failed the
Gates to the Red Forest swung open. I ran in and joined the group
at the Witcher's Circle that had turned from green to yellow. Then
I got the Call-to-Help the Lost Party that I had passed that I ignored.

Soon the Call-to-Help was switched to the Witcher's Circle where I
was. Psuedodogs, Dogs & Snorks attacked. We survived the first
attack with 1 loss. Within seconds another Call-to-Help kicked in of
which all were killed except 1 survivor. I got a Task complete for a
2nd time and he thanked me right as a stray Pseudodog killed him
and I was alone. I looted 2 new bodies, moved to Loot 3 old bodies
that were already there and grabbed a Battery Artifact. According
to my PDA, the Red Forest Mine had long ago lost it's Renegades.

I attempted to go back to the Loner Ambush but ran in the wrong
direction. I heard the roar of a Bloodsucker and jumped up on top
of a rock. Then I notcied my empty Mine suddenly became alive.
There were new Renegades in it fighting Mutants. I ran north and
then west to go join them. 2 Renegades attacked me outside the
Mine entrance. By the time I ran inside all the others were dead.
I killed 1 Pseudodog there. Inside I found 3 Renegade bodies.
There were a lot of dropped weapons. Enough dropped weapons
for the original Renegades to lose them and now the current group.
I counted 15 weapons with at least 5 of those from the Witcher's Circle.

I grabbed the Compass Artifact and decided to leave as it was getting
dark. I ran over to the locked Gate to Forester. A Dutyer in a Bulat
Suit walked up to me and stood less than a meter away and told me
to hurry up and talk and stop wasting his time. The locked Gate
prevented me from bring up any dialogue options. I turned and
sprinted back through the Red Forest. Past the Witcher's Circle,
past the Lost Party and I stopped just short of going to Dark Yar.

Pseudodogs had chased me so I was on top of some rocks. The
Loner's Ambush still showed 2 red Enemy Squads waiting there for
me so that was not an option. I looked at the time and knew the
Auto-Save CTD was soon coming. I had done so much and gone
so far so it was frustrating knowing that was coming. I decided to
see if all my actions would change my fate. I took a chance and
made a Manual Save to instantly be rewarded with a CTD. Once
again all I have is my Auto-Save first entering the Red Forest level.
Like a trapped soul in hell I can only repeat all of my same actions.

TS
  04:33:26  13 September 2010
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Xeros612
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Do quicksaves end up doing the same thing for you? I haven't seen it mentioned yet. I know quicksaves aren't too well liked for being unreliable at times, but if that ends up not causing a CTD it'll be worth it.
  04:43:23  13 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Xeros612~

I guess it's worth a try. I stopped using Quick Saves back in 2007.

TS
  22:42:00  13 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I got a CTD just like I expected. At least I can say I gave it a try.

If the conditions are there to produce a CTD with a Manual or Auto
Save of course they will still be there when attempting a Quick Save.

TS
  00:37:24  14 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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Maybe it's all the manual saves that fill up some memory limit, (though I can't see how they would affect the actual game).

Have you really given up hoarding? I suspect you've just removed a fraction of your supplies.
  00:54:36  14 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/14/2010 0:55:03
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Instead of going to the Red Forest I guess I could go back to Yantar,
Agroprom, Garbage and Cordon and empty out the Auto-Fill Stashes.

TS
  01:20:07  14 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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Message edited by:
Three Mile Island
09/14/2010 1:22:22
Messages: 2273
No I meant your own stashes, with ammo from emptied weapons etc. You wrote earlier that you just removed 8,000 objects but had 23,000 left...
  03:24:51  14 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/14/2010 3:25:39
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Three Mile Island~

You're missing what I was trying to say. I don't have 23,000 objects.
The Game is telling me it is saving 23,000 objects. And as Fluffy had
pointed out early I was wrong on the 8,000. If I sell 5,000 rounds of
ammo that does not mean 5,000 objects. Since ammo is sold in boxes
then 5,000 rounds in boxes of 50 would only be selling 100 objects.
I have no idea where the 23,000 objects are. I guess all the NPCs,
Mutants and Trader Inventories. Believe me if I could sell 23,000
objects to keep my Game from crashing I would in a heartbeat.


fluffy22~

Actually I gave up on going to the Red Forest for now and decided to
follow some of your other advice. I emptied out the Auto-Fill Stash by
Lefty and took more ammo to sell in the Agroprom. I killed all of the
Mutants in the Agroprom. I sold more stuff to both Agroprom Traders.
I returned to Garbage and emptied out the Auto-Fill Stashes. I went
to my Flea Market Stash and removed all the extra Pistols and took
100 grenades to sell in the Cordon. I gave Wild Napr the Fleshy PDA
he wanted. I went to the Cordon and gave the Military Driver his PDA.
All along in each Level I was able to make Manual Saves. I killed all
the Mutants in the Cordon and noticed Duty was fighting the Bandits
and finally engaged Freedom at the southern exit to the Dark Valley.
I returned to Garbage and took a Bandit Job to get the Mutants at
the Forest east of the Grimpen Mire. I tried to make a Manual Save
before the attack and I CTD again. Too many objects. It's amazing
how I sell off so much, kill so many things and the Game is screaming
at me that I have too much. What the hell am I suppose to go do? Kill
every Man & Mutant in every Level just to make the Game stop crashing?

TS
  13:54:59  14 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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Message edited by:
Three Mile Island
09/14/2010 13:57:11
Messages: 2273
Are all your games several months long? Have you ever tried playing a quick one, just to see what happens when you reach the later levels?


---QUOTATION---
And as Fluffy had pointed out early I was wrong on the 8,000. If I sell 5,000 rounds of ammo that does not mean 5,000 objects. Since ammo is sold in boxes then 5,000 rounds in boxes of 50 would only be selling 100 objects.

---END QUOTATION---


Actually 5000 rounds could require many more boxes than 100 if each box is not full (like when emptying sawn off shotguns, where each gun only gives you a box of two rounds). My point was more that whatever "23,000" means you only got rid of a small percentage of it.


---QUOTATION---
I have no idea where the 23,000 objects are.
---END QUOTATION---


Sorry, I thought you only counted items from your own stashes. So your personal stashes are more or less empty now?

I guess the 23,000 objects could be all kinds of things, including items that are not removed properly from memory. If so the question becomes why they are not removed from memory, and why this affects your games.


---QUOTATION---
I guess all the NPCs, Mutants and Trader Inventories.
---END QUOTATION---


Why would they grow that large? Do you have lots of dead NPCs that don't disappear on some level?


---QUOTATION---
It's amazing how I sell off so much, kill so many things and the Game is screaming at me that I have too much.
---END QUOTATION---


Not sure if an alive or dead NPC makes any difference, as long as it's still present in the game. You shouldn't have to kill them since the spawning of new ones is always moderate (it's not like the alive NPCs are becoming more and more numerous, right?) --but even if you do kill them, doesn't the game remove the surplus bodies quickly enough? Maybe you should let them live...
  15:26:31  14 September 2010
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Three Mile Island
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Checked my old saves, and it seems I've played a month a few times, but not longer than that.
  04:29:34  15 September 2010
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Tejas Stalker
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Once again I want to thank fluffy22 for making me happy
and letting me get back to the Zone that I love so much.

Adventures with Strelok~

I raced right behind him into the Tunnel:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7581/rf01.jpg

I wonder who decided to store all these Red Barrels here:
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5453/rf02.jpg

Like I really need Strelok telling me he blew the Tunnel:
http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/9439/rf03.jpg

Task failed...well not for trying:
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1769/rf04.jpg

Went back outside and found this cluster all bunched up:
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9250/rf05.jpg

Hello Boys...what's new?
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8485/rf06.jpg

The last Screenshot before I died:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/989/rf07.jpg

Take 2: Strelok does this weird thing where he runs back towards me:
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2194/rf08.jpg

Strelok threatening to kill me and he can't even hold his AKSU:
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/6306/rf09.jpg

Don't let him get in the Tunnel...that's a good one:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/9610/rf10.jpg

This blast killed me:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/395/rf11s.jpg

Strelok Take 3: Run Forest Run:
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/8966/rf12t.jpg

It's kinda hot in here:
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/96/rf13.jpg

Like I need to be told this:
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2930/rf14.jpg

One Squad is Red...another is Yellow. The fork that goes to the right
and descends is the same one that appears again underneath the Red
Forest Mine with the section of road and the bathroom connected to it.
Outside these walls a Squad of Mutants is very close to where I am now:
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9233/rf15.jpg

Getting this close to the Mine spawns new Renegades there. That is
why it is good not to get so close until you are ready to go visit them.
In this Screenshot there are 2 Renegades at the Red Forest Mine entrance:
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/853/rf16.jpg

These Renegades are deep inside the Mine:
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8388/rf17.jpg

And the spawning Mutants that will kill them:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2191/rf18.jpg

TS
  09:48:45  5 March 2013
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MentalRaptors
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/04/2013
Messages: 8
On CTDs...

I'm not sure if it's still relevant but I'd like to add the following:

I've been playing CS for a couple of weeks now, game date is 11 oct. I've had only 2 CTDs until now. I can't remember the circumstances when the 2nd occurred, but the 1st CTD was at Agroprom when I was bolt-probing the electric anomalies at the 2nd floor of the base to get to the corpse lying by the windows. I guess I threw them too fast or too much at a time. I didn't check the error log at the time, just reloaded and continued without problems.

From the start I kinda rushed through the Swamp area, so I probably didn't get all items and missions there. When I arrived at the Garbage I accepted a few Capture & Hold missions which didn't seem to resolve properly, up until now they're still open. Same goes for C&H missions at Agroprom. Did I accept too many at once? Could it have anything to do with aforementioned rushing of the Swamp or did I take too much time?

I did return to the Swamp area later to search a dozen of stashes, managed to find them all while clearing the area from Bandits and Renegades as I went along. Upon returning to the Garbage I found that the C&H missions still didn't resolve in any way so I left them at that, can't really be bothered anymore.
I'll attempt a replay later to see if I can make a difference. After digging through this forum I realized that's the only option if I'd like to get my hands on a full psy SEVA anyway.

But I digress: what I meant to say is that I do tend to hoard ammo and unique weapons/equipment, but I sell anything else I don't have use for (I need money!). I'd like to think that the 2 CTDs I got so far were merely coincidental then. Am I wrong?
  15:51:54  5 March 2013
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Three Mile Island
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On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 2273

---QUOTATION---
I'd like to think that the 2 CTDs I got so far were merely coincidental then.
---END QUOTATION---


Most likely yes. At least they're different from the recurring CTDs you get after several months playtime --the latter simply makes it impossible to continue playing.
  04:46:42  19 November 2014
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Does the ZRP greatly reduce crashes and CTDs?

TS
  13:24:10  19 November 2014
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RK Roadkill
Merc
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On forum: 05/27/2011
Messages: 1294
SRP 1.3a is latest unofficial patch at the moment. 1.04 in the works.
It's stable as CoP at least for me. I never had any problems or crashes with it but thats just me. SRP keeps the game soo smooth
  22:25:48  19 November 2014
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

What GSC Patch does it use as it's basis?

TS
  23:01:51  19 November 2014
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angrydog
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On forum: 09/01/2009
Messages: 3341

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

What GSC Patch does it use as it's basis?

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Patch 10

Readme - SRP v1.0.3a.txt
http://pastebin.com/0piYZnVu

Sky Reclamation Project (SRP) Discussion Thread:
https://www.gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr2&thm_page=1&thm_id=20140&sec_id=22
  08:30:03  20 November 2014
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

That's too bad. That Patch really screwed up the fluidity and reduced
the size and scope of the Faction Wars. 1.5.7 or 1.5.8 were the best.

TS
  08:40:14  20 November 2014
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SetaKat
Ex modder, Zones only ferret and will someday release a game
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On forum: 02/20/2010
Messages: 6340
It is possible to tweak the scripts responsible for target selecting and attacking to increase the randomness of the AI.
I actually made a lot of changes there (aka rewrote) when I was still modding, and managed to get squads travelling all over the zone, much more dynamic and unpredictable alife.
Was fun seeing Duty and Freedom pouring into the Garbage, fighting over resource points, and running from battle site to battle site to loot rare equipment. And then some random pack of mutants showed up.

Heh, fun times.
  12:46:10  21 November 2014
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

SetaKat~

At what point do you have the Faction Wars ( Duty leaving their base
and sending troops to the Pseudogiant and on to Garbage ) initiating?

TS
  20:33:26  21 November 2014
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Three Mile Island
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On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 2273

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Does the ZRP greatly reduce crashes and CTDs?

TS
---END QUOTATION---


In particular, does it prevent the seemingly inevitable crashes that occur in long games?
  22:19:40  18 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
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Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Three Mile Island~

I guess we'll never know.

TS
  00:03:51  19 August 2015
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Three Mile Island
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On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 2273
I suppose we could test SRP ourselves... Admittedly I'm a bit reluctant to use mods in CS after my recent experience with ZRP in SoC.

Or perhaps one could make a challenge of the instability, by trying to achieve unusual faction war outcomes in the limited play time before the crashes begin. Maybe it's even a good thing that CS crashes, otherwise I might keep playing the same game for years.
  02:22:33  19 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I personally believe the biggest
cause of long term instability and crashing is due to the way that GSC
made the Game. As you well know, through out the Game are various
stashes that continually grow with various supplies as a reward or a
measure of Faction strength. At a certain point, these stashes that are
useful and a source of revenue at first, become excessive, unneeded and
ultimately overwhelming. The Game is forced to spawn too many objects
that the Player cannot simply spend all their time getting rid of by selling
and it reaches a point to where the Game will no longer load or function.

TS
  03:37:04  19 August 2015
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Three Mile Island
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On forum: 11/04/2008
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Didn't we test emptying such stashes without any imrovement? My guess is that something else builds up over time. Not necessarily items, it could be a memory leak or anything really.
  03:47:06  19 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Once about a month or two passes and you are ready to cross that bridge
to Limansk, it is simply too difficult to visit all the previous levels to empty
and get rid of those items. Once you went through every level to do that
you would have to start the whole process over again for the time elapsed.

TS
  09:01:15  19 August 2015
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SetaKat
Ex modder, Zones only ferret and will someday release a game
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On forum: 02/20/2010
Messages: 6340

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I personally believe the biggest
cause of long term instability and crashing is due to the way that GSC
made the Game. As you well know, through out the Game are various
stashes that continually grow with various supplies as a reward or a
measure of Faction strength. At a certain point, these stashes that are
useful and a source of revenue at first, become excessive, unneeded and
ultimately overwhelming. The Game is forced to spawn too many objects
that the Player cannot simply spend all their time getting rid of by selling
and it reaches a point to where the Game will no longer load or function.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


In my time spent modding, I did find this to be true. The stash boxes in various smart terrains gets new items whenever a new squad moves in, spawns, or you load a game/move a level forcing the box to spawn more items for each squad present there.
It adds up very quickly, and given the limited number of object ids, can cause 'you are saving too much' errors to occur.
  23:34:21  19 August 2015
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Three Mile Island
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On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 2273
Now I remember that I just emptied my personal stashes before, not the ones filled by the game, so this might still be worth checking out.


---QUOTATION---
it is simply too difficult to visit all the previous levels to empty and get rid of those items. Once you went through every level to do that you would have to start the whole process over again for the time elapsed.
---END QUOTATION---


Surely it wouldn't take that long to empty all stashes? I'd guess a few hours at most, and then you'd be safe for another month or so.

Of course you may not have to the time to empty stashes across the Zone if your faction war involvement keeps you busy, but don't you tend to stay neutral in the FW anyway Tejas?

Also I recall not all stash boxes are refilled equally fast in the faction war, some get much more than others depending on how close to the frontline you are, your factions resources, etc. So my guess is that you don't need to empty boxes in say Swamps or Red Forest.
  23:35:32  19 August 2015
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Three Mile Island
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On forum: 11/04/2008
 

Message edited by:
Three Mile Island
08/19/2015 23:36:53
Messages: 2273

---QUOTATION---
given the limited number of object ids, can cause 'you are saving too much' errors to occur.
---END QUOTATION---


Is this true for dropped weapons on the ground as well?

Also, can the max number of id:s be increased in a mod?
  10:00:12  20 August 2015
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SetaKat
Ex modder, Zones only ferret and will someday release a game
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On forum: 02/20/2010
 

Message edited by:
SetaKat
08/20/2015 10:11:26
Messages: 6340

---QUOTATION---
Is this true for dropped weapons on the ground as well?
---END QUOTATION---


Yes, it is also true for inventory items, npcs, mutants, corpses, and even stashes themselves. They are all objects as far as the game is concerned.


---QUOTATION---
Also, can the max number of id:s be increased in a mod?
---END QUOTATION---


No, its an engine limitation. Given the engine is open source however, I suspect that you could probably change the limit.
By default, the limit is 2^16, or 65536


---QUOTATION---
Also I recall not all stash boxes are refilled equally fast in the faction war, some get much more than others depending on how close to the frontline you are, your factions resources, etc. So my guess is that you don't need to empty boxes in say Swamps or Red Forest.
---END QUOTATION---


See above about moving levels/saving. Each squad adds items whenever it enters a smart terrain, and on loading a game, the squads are 'added' to that smart terrain, even if they were already there when it saved. You can observe the boxes filling by saving/loading repeatedly in quick succession.
  03:33:36  21 August 2015
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Decane
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On forum: 04/04/2007
Messages: 1690
To supplement what SetaKat has written, and subject to the 'AFAIK'-clause:

There are only two types of game object that get soft-coded IDs: squads and tasks. Incidentally, they are also the only types of game object without an object binder, and hence are not really 'game objects' proper like those that SetaKat listed. By default, they get integer IDs (e.g. 6, 27861) from object_collection.script, although for squads, this integer ID is converted into a string ID (so 6 becomes "6" or '6'), and 'scripted' squads can alternatively have a unique alphanumerical string ID (e.g. 'val_smart_terrain_7_4_freedom') defined in the game configs. Other types of game object get hard-coded 16-bit unsigned integer IDs. Note that this means that you can have a task with ID 10 and also have an NPC with ID 10; but that doesn't matter because these IDs don't exist in the same 'namespace'.

---QUOTATION---
Is this true for dropped weapons on the ground as well?
Yes, it is also true for inventory items, npcs, mutants, corpses, and even stashes themselves. They are all objects as far as the game is concerned.
---END QUOTATION---


It's also true for partial and full ammo boxes - one of many reasons favoring the use of the Dunin Ammo Aggregator.

---QUOTATION---
Also I recall not all stash boxes are refilled equally fast in the faction war, some get much more than others depending on how close to the frontline you are, your factions resources, etc.
---END QUOTATION---


Yes, only boxes on smart terrains occupied by online squads get filled up. So if you're at the Cordon and reload 10 times while there, none of the supply boxes at the Garbage would have gotten any fuller; nor even necessarily those far away from your reload location at the Cordon.
  02:48:56  22 August 2015
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Three Mile Island
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2008
 

Message edited by:
Three Mile Island
08/22/2015 2:51:13
Messages: 2273

---QUOTATION---
Is this true for dropped weapons on the ground as well?
---END QUOTATION---


To elaborate, can lots of weapons dropped by NPCs make a substantial contribution to the game crashes? It doesn't sound like it, if it's just the ID values that cause the crashes. I use to clean up the Zone during my faction wars anyway, putting unsellable weapons in NPCs that will soon disappear. The object ID value can be reused once the item is destroyed, right?


---QUOTATION---
It's also true for partial and full ammo boxes - one of many reasons favoring the use of the Dunin Ammo Aggregator.
---END QUOTATION---


Sounds like this mod will slash the number of ammo items to a fraction. But does it work on the auto-filled supply boxes as well, or just on your own looted ammo stashes?


---QUOTATION---
Yes, only boxes on smart terrains occupied by online squads get filled up. So if you're at the Cordon and reload 10 times while there, none of the supply boxes at the Garbage would have gotten any fuller; nor even necessarily those far away from your reload location at the Cordon.
---END QUOTATION---


That doesn't sound like a serious problem then, or? Unless perhaps if you run around a lot, without emptying boxes along the way.

A modder might test all this by making the PDA map display the number of object IDs in each box in the Zone.
  21:33:06  27 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

So all this stuff we're talking about...is it anything that the SRP fixes?

TS
  21:38:31  27 August 2015
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RK Roadkill
Merc
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/27/2011
Messages: 1294
You'll be amazed what SRP fixed , check changelog when you download it. CS is stable more than CoP !!!
  14:05:49  12 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Does anyone have any record using the SRP of how long a game lasted?
I would actually be willing to give it a try if it extended my long game play.

TS
  15:19:12  12 September 2015
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Charcharo
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Does anyone have any record using the SRP of how long a game lasted?
I would actually be willing to give it a try if it extended my long game play.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



I think it was 50 days in game... my longest. Then Witcher 3 came out and I forgot for awhile. Will play again with new version soon.
  22:06:48  15 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I did over 60 without the SRP so I was hoping to hear about a longer record.

TS
  00:02:02  16 September 2015
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Charcharo
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On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175
I dont do that long games in Clear Sky usually. Dont know why *Shrugs*

When I build my new PC I will go back to Clear Sky and try again with SRP.
  08:43:25  16 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

My next Clear Sky Game I'm going back to using the superior 1.5.8 Patch.
The 1.5.10 Patch took out too much action and weakened the Faction Wars.

TS
  09:30:16  16 September 2015
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Charcharo
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On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175
*Inferior to Sky Reclamation Patch

  11:56:05  16 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Wasn't there an SRP made for the earlier patches or is it only 1.5.10?

TS
  12:57:49  16 September 2015
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Charcharo
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On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175
It is made for 1.5.10.

Still better than both 1.5.8 and 1.5.10.

You should try it. Just read the readme first (10 minutes of work)... thousands of shit have been fixed.
  14:57:39  16 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Does it fix any of the terrible changes GSC made to the Game Play in the 1.5.10 Patch?

TS
  15:01:06  16 September 2015
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Charcharo
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On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175
I dont know what these changes are... but I do have an educated guess. If its those I think you mean... then yes.

Easiest way to find out is to delve into it .. .wont cost you a thing.
  22:05:22  16 September 2015
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RK Roadkill
Merc
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On forum: 05/27/2011
 

Message edited by:
RK Roadkill
09/16/2015 22:06:26
Messages: 1294
Try it and see it for yourself and report any issues (if) you enconter so it can get fixed.
  01:56:48  17 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

If you don't understand and know the difference between the 1.5.8 and
the 1.5.10 Patch and how there are huge differences in the Game Play,
timing of events and how action unfolds, then the SRP is meaningless.

TS
  02:16:28  17 September 2015
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Charcharo
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

If you don't understand and know the difference between the 1.5.8 and
the 1.5.10 Patch and how there are huge differences in the Game Play,
timing of events and how action unfolds, then the SRP is meaningless.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Read your posts on the matter. Thing is... your experience was different from mine

Also, dont see how that, even if it were true, would make it meaningless. Just try it Tejas
  02:51:43  17 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

The point being I asked you if the SRP had fixed or restored the better
features of the earlier patches before 1.5.10 of which you do not know.
So basically you can't answer that and you expect me to try it anyway.

TS
  08:37:57  17 September 2015
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Charcharo
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

The point being I asked you if the SRP had fixed or restored the better
features of the earlier patches before 1.5.10 of which you do not know.
So basically you can't answer that and you expect me to try it anyway.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Yes I do expect you

If it is what I think it is, then it fixes it. If it is something else you experienced in a unique playthrough and I missed a post... then I dont know.
  09:39:55  17 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

So have you thought about a real life career past school? I think you have
the talent and drive to convince people to buy something they don't want.

TS
  10:06:20  17 September 2015
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Charcharo
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

So have you thought about a real life career past school? I think you have
the talent and drive to convince people to buy something they don't want.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



I am working already for a call center. Using English, German, Spanish and Portuguese now.

We are currently working with a Video Game company, a very big one. So right now I am Support/Moderation/Community Contributor/Translator for them

The pay, by Bulgarian standards, is awesome...

Though it is kind of sad to know that for 8 hours of work a day I make three times as much as people that are University professors...
Which I must never bring up as I also am studying for an industrial engineer... and if my professors know... well ...
  11:31:42  17 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Now you know why they say "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach".

TS
  11:35:56  17 September 2015
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Charcharo
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On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175

---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Now you know why they say "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach".

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Disagree.

Knowledge is power. And the death of literature and our world's elite... is slow, but certain.

Teachers ought be treated with respect. Always.
  09:05:06  18 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

In the US there are a lot of useless degrees that will never get
you a decent related job unless you decide to be teaching it.

TS
  09:25:52  18 September 2015
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Charcharo
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On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175
Well good thing I am studying industrial engineering then...

But it is the same everywhere.

*The languages do hopefully mean I will never be jobless.
  09:30:02  18 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

An industrial engineering degree would be favorable in any part of the world.

TS
  15:05:30  18 September 2015
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Charcharo
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On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175
I hope so. + 7 languages

And maybe something else on top too... then again I am insane.. so yeah
  20:24:02  18 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I think I got as far as just getting to the Red Forest with the 1.5.10
Patch from when I started this post. As that Game was on another
Computer that I had problem with the hard drive, I doubt I'll finish it.

TS
  22:36:25  18 September 2015
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Charcharo
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On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175
Just play with SRP mate
  08:42:29  19 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

I'm more willing now but most likely Lost Alpha would be next.

TS
  14:58:23  20 September 2015
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Decane
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On forum: 04/04/2007
Messages: 1690

---QUOTATION---
The stash boxes in various smart terrains gets new items whenever ... you load a game/move a level forcing the box to spawn more items for each squad present there.
---END QUOTATION---


This has been fixed for the next version of the SRP, by the way. There is indication in the scripts that GSC was aware of this problem and tried to get around it, but alas, their work-around failed and so the glitch remained in the final product. The consequences are especially noticeable at the concentration camp in the Garbage, where the stash box can fill up very quickly if the player avoids confrontation with the bandits stationed there.
  11:59:55  2 July 2019
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 25732
Clear Sky PATCH 1.5.10 Review

Can't somebody create a fix where the stashes don't regenerate and stop the cascade effect that makes the Game unstable the more time passes?

TS
 
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