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Integrate a better accuracy system.

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Question Yay or Nay, on the Accuracy Solution?
Answers
Yay.
63%  (22)  
Nay.
37%  (13)  
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  12:39:54  27 April 2007
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Voxdeumbra
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/27/2007
Messages: 13
Integrate a better accuracy system.

Seriously... the whole iron-sight-on-target-but-bullet-hitting-corner-of-the-screen thing is really irritating... you can't even execute a rational tactic because the accuracy system is so bad.

Solutions:

When having the graphic recoil effect of the weapon engage when you fire, speed up the process but shake the player screen to a static halt with every discharge of the bullet, while keeping every bullet within a very very small radius of the iron sight. That way you still have the same effect of "bad" accuracy but also giving the player an opportunity to think about the way he/she fires the weapon, especially in the current situation; he/she knows they've got a good shot when they've got a target in iron sight for the first shot. Though of course there are exceptions to the type of weapon you're using, i.e. pistol, rifle.

Result:

It's more believable, and not only that, it would boost the inspiration of an espionage approach to the game... and it's less irritating.

Off Subject Suggestion (don't include in poll submission):

Add a longer lasting smoke effect from rifle fire and bullet impacts.

Another Off Subject Suggestion (don't include in poll submission):

Reconsider the sound of bullet impact. When I was in Boot Camp, we were at the range and I was working in the "pits" where we had to raise the targets in the air to get shot. Every time a bullet hit the mud ridge behind the targets, you heard the impact first and then the rifle fire, it sounds like a *SMACK* followed by a *BOOM BOOM*. I never figured out why it always sounded like two shots were fired after the impact but that's just how it was. Of course this was at 300 to 500 meters away. Anyway, I'm a big sound effects junkie and I thought it would be cool if for once someone got the sound working right in a video game.

Peace.
  15:15:13  28 April 2007
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Sykomancer
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/21/2007
Messages: 67
I have no problems with the targetting system. In fact, I think its one of the best out there. It sounds like you dislike the accuracy and the 'resetting position' of the iron sights.

First off, I don't think these guns were meant to be a dime shot. They're supposed to mimic real life weaponry and not be entirely accurate. I still have no problems killing.

As far as the iron sights go, I like the way the screen resets after each shot made. It keeps me from having to mouse down after every assault rifle shot I make. Thiswas something I hated in games like Day of Defeat. You had to constantly strive for perfect accuracy on the next shot.

Unless I misunderstood what you were saying, please clarify.
  18:16:23  28 April 2007
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Carnivore
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/23/2007
Messages: 252
Firing Range

Yes, would be cool to have a target range built into the game so you could practice with all the different weapons. Regular 25, 100, 400, 1000m/yd range with iron targets, occasional snork running across ha ha.
  21:13:38  29 April 2007
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jiminator
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/07/2007
Messages: 33
one of the early videos showed them going to a firing range that included all the weapons on a table, lots of targets and also pigs. They showed testing the weapons and the physics. a lot of stuff got cut from the final game. it would have been nice to have the range in a sandbox mode.
  02:06:51  30 April 2007
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LA Attempt
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/24/2007
 

Message edited by:
LA Attempt
04/30/2007 2:09:30
Messages: 8
I agree with the OP.

Being a marksman myself, the accuracy system felt extremely wierd to me.

The way the games accuracy works, it appears that guns dont fire in straight lines, which is innacurate (no pun intended). No matter what gun you have, it will fire in a PERFECTLY straight line. Obviously wind and gravity kick in and change the bullets corse, and the amount of initial velocity will change how quickly those take effect, but other than that guns shoot straight.

What makes a gun "innacurate" is the human using it. Breathing, muscles twitching and our inability to calculate muzzle velocity, widn resistance and the effects of gravity are what makes us miss the target.

The fact that the bullet would just plain NOT HIT where my cross hair/iron sight was pointing made stalker somewhat dissapointing (although its still eating up hours of my time)

I would move to have the guns themselves jump about in the characters hands, making it so that the bullet still shot perfectly straight, but the human is the one making the error. Also i prefere the more realistic stile of sniping, where the cross hair moves about as one breaths, thus making it not the guns fault that a person missed but the person themselves.

I dont know what I can do about this (seeing as im not a software engineer), but i just thought I would voice my opinion and share my knowledge.
  21:52:57  1 May 2007
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Voxdeumbra
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/27/2007
Messages: 13
LA Attempt said it best, and that's the truth. I started the game on the hardest mode and the only thing that really bugs me is the accuracy system being a little lame. Overall an enjoyable game for me though.
  18:19:44  2 May 2007
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Wolfed
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/30/2007
Messages: 34
Accuracy when firing has also alot to do with how much recoil there is in the gun. Muzzle length's also a factor. I mean, just because your crosschair is pointing at something, it's perfectly understandable if the muzzle of your pistol or rifle isn't. The crosschair is an aiming tool, not necessarily the exact point on which the bad end of your weapon is pointing, even less so once the bullet flies outta it.

I like the accuracy system. Alot of FPSes make it way to easy to hit bullseye.
  18:48:02  2 May 2007
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Voxdeumbra
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/27/2007
Messages: 13

---QUOTATION---
Accuracy when firing has also alot to do with how much recoil there is in the gun. Muzzle length's also a factor. I mean, just because your crosschair is pointing at something, it's perfectly understandable if the muzzle of your pistol or rifle isn't. The crosschair is an aiming tool, not necessarily the exact point on which the bad end of your weapon is pointing, even less so once the bullet flies outta it.

I like the accuracy system. Alot of FPSes make it way to easy to hit bullseye.
---END QUOTATION---



I agree on the crossair accuracy. It's fine the way it is... but when it comes to an alternative to get better accuracy on you're shots, the iron site makes alot of sense... just not in game. you pretty much get the same accuracy with or without the iron sight... it's pretty dumb. the way LA Attempt explained the mechanics of the weapon is true though.
  18:58:16  2 May 2007
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Titanium1
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/05/2006
Messages: 45
thread starter are you sure your not aiming with the sawed off Sgun?
becuase just yesterday i was just saying that its getting kind of easy, because i use an upgraded fast shooting machine gun and i still manage to hit
  20:55:05  2 May 2007
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Melodic
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 540
You guys know you can fix this yourself, right? Assuming you've already extracted the databases, just go to gamedata/config/weapons/w_whateverweaponyouwant, and edit fire_dispersion_base, 0 meaning that the bullet will always go where the crosshair is aimed, 0.5 meaning you won't hit the broad side of a barn.

Go wild! those w_files also contain the data for recoil, power, magazine size, weight...
  01:34:35  3 May 2007
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LA Attempt
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/24/2007
 

Message edited by:
LA Attempt
05/03/2007 1:36:13
Messages: 8

---QUOTATION---
...just because your crosschair is pointing at something, it's perfectly understandable if the muzzle of your pistol or rifle isn't. The crosschair is an aiming tool, not necessarily the exact point on which the bad end of your weapon is pointing, even less so once the bullet flies outta it...
---END QUOTATION---



Good point, something I forgot to mention.

This got me thinking... maybe with the addition of a shooting range could come the ability to sight in the rifle yourself. This way, the rifle shoots where you told it to shoot in a more realistic way. Obviously as the rifle aged, its consitancy would slowly decrees, and where the scope pointed would be less and less acuratein relation to where the muzzle pointed.

Pretty implausible for adition to the game at this point, I would assume, but I thought I would share my idea anwyay.




Melodic, thanks for those tips! I may just have to mess around with those files some.

I will admit that if rifles "in game" shot directly towards the middle of the screen every time, it would make it rather unfair and it would lose some of that role playing feel. What I ment though was that I wished the gun itself pointed where it shot. As in, the recoil would make the gun leap around and, although the bullets would still be flying in a straight line, they wouldn't hit the middle of the screen.

Another thing that might have contributed to my dislike for the accuracy system was that I was using a short barel AK with a scope on it, which by the game's standards is very inacurate (and rightfully so--short barel guns have HUGE kick). I find now with my GP 36 the rounds dont stray as much.
  03:00:21  3 May 2007
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Melodic
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On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 540
About the best, I think, you could obtain would be to make weapons have perfect (0.0) accuracy, but give them a realistic amount of kick. Of course, the recoil doesn't move the GUN but the camera itself (which the gun is attached to), so your whole screen will be jarring back and forth, but where you're aiming, you'll hit.
  03:27:08  3 May 2007
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Rednecksith
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/06/2007
Messages: 19
I agree, the accuracy kinda sucks. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten a bandit's head perfectly lined up from 20yds, only to fire and have the round bounce off the concrete barrier an inch to the left of his torso.

Still a fun game though, despite the fits of cursing the seemingly unrealistic accuracy causes sometimes.
  20:13:07  3 May 2007
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Wolfed
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/30/2007
Messages: 34
I kinda think most of you are overestimating how accurate a shot actually is. True, I've never fired a REAL gun, but BB's sure rarely go exactly where I aim 'em. And that recoil is ludicrous compared to a real gun. But physics and reality aren't allways the same, at least not the calculated physics of the matter. Anomoly (not the kind that kills you in STALKER) in the barrel, wind, disorientation, muscles, whatever. Just because the bullet doesn't hit where you want it to be doesn't mean it isn't realistic.

I, personally, am fine with the accuracy system, as I never really appriciated the dead-certain accuracy in many other FPSes. Some of the "mis-hits" might be ludicrous, but if you've seen Pulp Fiction (which I KNOW isn't realistic), you know that messed up stuff happens at the bad end of a gun
  22:55:43  3 May 2007
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Carnivore
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On forum: 04/23/2007
Messages: 252
overestimating accuracy

Many things can affect accuracy. Humidity, type of ammo, number of rounds fired since barrel cleaning, barrel temperature, trigger squeeze, focus, etc.
Had a rifle once that shot 1 hole groups @ 100yds with a clean barrel but after a box or two fired could only group the size of a dinner plate. Clean barrel and one hole groups again.
  23:22:32  3 May 2007
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R2k
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On forum: 04/07/2007
Messages: 167
If you want to make the guns accurate but still challenging, dont just change that one file.

fire_dispersion_base = 0.24

That's the default LR-300, change that to something more like 0.07.

Then change

cam_relax_speed = 6;0.15

To = 0.0

That makes it so the gun doesn't go back to its original starting position automatically each shot. therefor, you have to do it yourself, making it much more realistic.

Then, if that's still to easy, modify these lines:

cam_dispersion = 0.15
cam_dispersion_inc = 0.15
cam_dispertion_frac = 1
cam_max_angle = 7
cam_max_angle_horz = 5.0
cam_step_angle_horz = 0.5;0.4

I don't know for sure what each one does specifically, but I have an idea.

I believe cam_dispersion is how far each shot is thrown off from the center.
Cam_dispersion_inc is for guns set to auto instead of semi, how much each shot throws it off from the previous.
I have no idea what cam_dispertion_frac is.
cam_max_angle I believe is the limit in degrees your screen will be turned due to recoil.
cam_max_angle_horz I think effects the same as above, but from side to side.
I dont know what cam_step_angle does.

Hope that is new information to someone. I'm pretty new here but I couldn't find anything like this posted anywhere else.
  01:42:10  4 May 2007
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LA Attempt
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/24/2007
 

Message edited by:
LA Attempt
05/04/2007 1:42:57
Messages: 8
R2k, thanks for those tips. I'll try em out.

Carnivore, dude, what rifle were you using? a 1 hole grouping at 100 yards is REDICULOUSLY impressive shootinh... almost too impressive...

Also the rifles I have fired in the past dont get innacurate when their dirty. They jam more frequently (especially the HK 53-- damn dirty russian ammunition!) but it doesnt decrease their accuracy.
  03:20:23  4 May 2007
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R2k
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On forum: 04/07/2007
 

Message edited by:
R2k
05/04/2007 3:20:35
Messages: 167
and if you can find out what dispersion_frac is please let me know
  04:57:32  4 May 2007
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Armitage
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/30/2007
Messages: 30

---QUOTATION---
I find now with my GP 36 the rounds dont stray as much.
---END QUOTATION---



The GP 36 is a wonderful assault rifle, I only got my hands on it for a short time during an arena match but I loved it's amazing accuracy through the built in scope Looking forward to finding one on my playthrough and I'm never changing it out afterwards xD
  05:01:29  4 May 2007
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R2k
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On forum: 04/07/2007
Messages: 167

---QUOTATION---
I find now with my GP 36 the rounds dont stray as much.

The GP 36 is a wonderful assault rifle, I only got my hands on it for a short time during an arena match but I loved it's amazing accuracy through the built in scope Looking forward to finding one on my playthrough and I'm never changing it out afterwards xD
---END QUOTATION---



i didn't either my first time through, not until the last like 6 minutes of the game when i found the guass rifle, which wasnt even that great.
  05:29:07  4 May 2007
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intrepid
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/22/2007
Messages: 69

---QUOTATION---
one of the early videos showed them going to a firing range that included all the weapons on a table, lots of targets and also pigs. They showed testing the weapons and the physics. a lot of stuff got cut from the final game. it would have been nice to have the range in a sandbox mode.
---END QUOTATION---



This is true, but then again, perhaps we will see it re-appear in later patches.... I think that it is possible, if it adds value to the game.
  07:44:46  4 May 2007
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Carnivore
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On forum: 04/23/2007
Messages: 252
I noticed one of the ARs double taps on semi-auto. Thought the ammo counter was busted until I tested it on the hood of a truck.
LA- It was a homemade 7.62 silhouette rifle with a Sako action. Just had a goofy barrel. Heavy too. Went to a Remington bolt action pistol after that.
  16:31:04  9 May 2007
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Voxdeumbra
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/27/2007
Messages: 13
you know honestly this is how it goes. you all have very good points, and general ideas on how guns work.

i've been through marine corps boot camp, and shooting was the largest portion. accuracy of the weapon, depends on how you hold it, how you pull the trigger, and how you zero in on range. shooting keyed shots at 100 yards isn't hard at all... as a matter of fact we were zeroing at 200 yards. i can hit a target standing at 500 yards, center mass. then again i was the highest shooter in the company, never have fired a weapon before that.

be it game play, i was just alittle aggravated because i'm a realism addict. lol you may not be able to aim at a bandit 20 feet away in game and hit him directly where you want. but in life i would be able to. And honestly it's not like we're taking shots 1000 yards in game. the other day (and this happens very often), i was aiming at a stalkers head about 6 feet away, and i shot off the round and didn't even hit him. to me that's absurd. awesome game, don't get me wrong, but if they just fixed the accuracy system without having to go in and do it yourself would be alot better.. for the casual gamers sake.

another issue is the damage system. i don't remember what they called the gun, but it's almost exactly like the m4, and it shoots the same round, but it did more damage than the ak47 or aks74 (one of them), which has a bigger round. i think that if they geared more towards skill in the game rather than the typical rpg broad sword to excaliber, weakness to power, it would have been more pleasing. like i said, i'm a realism addict though, it's still a great game, i enjoy it. nothing is perfect.
  19:34:25  4 June 2007
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Voxdeumbra
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/27/2007
Messages: 13

---QUOTATION---
You guys know you can fix this yourself, right? Assuming you've already extracted the databases, just go to gamedata/config/weapons/w_whateverweaponyouwant, and edit fire_dispersion_base, 0 meaning that the bullet will always go where the crosshair is aimed, 0.5 meaning you won't hit the broad side of a barn.

Go wild! those w_files also contain the data for recoil, power, magazine size, weight...
---END QUOTATION---



how do i extract the databases?
  20:21:30  4 June 2007
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kwakkel
(Senior)
 
On forum: 05/21/2007
Messages: 83
search for the database extractor.
  21:39:49  6 June 2007
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Voxdeumbra
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/27/2007
Messages: 13

---QUOTATION---
search for the database extractor.
---END QUOTATION---



ok, now what database do i extract?
  22:40:59  8 June 2007
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NonWonderDog
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/24/2007
 

Message edited by:
NonWonderDog
06/09/2007 2:58:40
Messages: 8

---QUOTATION---
search for the database extractor.

ok, now what database do i extract?
---END QUOTATION---



Assuming you've installed 1.0003, the newest database is gamedata.dbb, and the weapon config files are duplicated in there. The game seems to load data in reverse alphabetic order out of files named gamedata.* when it starts up. If you were to extract every database in order from db0 to dbb, allowing overwrites, you'd have all the data S.T.A.L.K.E.R. sees. This is not really recommended unless you have lots of time and drive space to burn.

Incidentally, most of the config files and even some of the graphics files (like that doom3 flashlight texture people found a while ago) in db0 are years and years and years old, and aren't used by the game at all. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. wasn't packed up very efficiently.


Extract that one to a temp folder, and copy what you need (with the folder structure) into a folder named "gamedata" in your S.T.A.L.K.E.R. directory. You could just extract into "gamedata", but then it would take precedence over anything in a new patch. You also have to change the first "false" in fsgame.ltx to a "true" for the game to read anything from the "gamedata" folder.

The weapon config files are in gamedata/config/weapons. They're just text files, open them with any plain text editor. Notepad, for instance. Individual weapons are in different files by (real) name, while ammo is in weapons.ltx.

"fire_dispersion_base" is labeled (in Russian) as "the dispersion of the gun when clamped in a vise." It's in degrees. There are multipliers to this dispersion for standing and crouching... somewhere, I think. Realistic dispersion for an excellent western assault rifle with military-grade ammo (i.e. absolutely not match grade in any way) is 2-3 minutes of angle, or 0.035-0.05 degrees. Colt's claims of 0.5 MoA precision for the M-16 are seemingly based on hand-loaded ammo fired in a climate-controlled hanger on top of a mountain, and are not to be taken seriously. The Abakan should have a bit more dispersion than the western guns, while I've seen anything up to 6 MoA, or 0.1 degrees, for the AKS-74. The MP5 should have, believe it or not, about the same dispersion as the AKS-74 (it has a much lower muzzle velocity and lots more bullet drop, but it's just as accurate at short range), while the AKS-74U should be a fire hose with 8-10 MoA "precision." The handguns are fairly realistic as is. Maybe the Makarov should shoot better than the 6 inch group size depicted in game, but it's not unrealistic with crappy ammo. Most guns other than the handguns seem to have received precisely double the originally intended dispersion sometime during development for balancing reasons, so halving the dispersion is a good place to start.

The shotgun spread is spectacularly exaggerated, too, so you might want to choke that down (they use fire_dispersion_base for spread). All the shotguns (from the Remington to the sawn-off) have a patten size of 126 inches at 40 yards! Firing buckshot! More realistic values for dispersion are about 0.16-0.18 (40" at 40yards) for the sawn-off and 0.11-0.125 (30" at 40 yards) for the long guns. These will make the sawn-off you get in the beginning of the game quite overpowered, gameplay wise, but sawing off half the barrel of a shotgun doesn't change the spread nearly as much as you'd think -- it's basically the difference between whatever choke was on before and a cylinder barrel with less muzzle velocity. An easy way to reduce the damage a bit is to change the load from 10 pellets to 9 pellets in the ammo definition (weapons.ltx). Nine pellet 00-buck is more common than ten pellet 00-buck anyway (although the SPAS can fire 12 pellet magnum shells...). If you want to get more involved you can change the dispersion modifiers for the ammo types, too. By default, buckshot has 10x dispersion, slugs use the dispersion listed in the weapon file, and fin-stabilized slugs have 0.8x dispersion. If you change the buckshot multiplier to 12x and lower the gun dispersion a bit it would be closer to reality, but slugs would be a bit too good because they don't slow down nearly fast enough in the air (if they slow down at all, I'm not quite sure on the ballistics in game).


"fire_distance" in the file is the range at which the bullet magically disappears. Most realism mods set this to the effective range of the gun, reasoning that the bullet wouldn't do full damage past that point anyway. I don't like that, though, so I set it to 1000 (meters) for the rifles and half that for the pistols. Bullets follow arcs in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. anyway, so the real purpose of fire_distance is probably to save a tiny bit of performance by deleting bullets fired up into the sky. I'd rather not have bullets magically deleted, myself.

I had a fairly realistic setup I cooked up, but I forgot to back it up when I upgraded my computer and put in a new hard drive. I'm not going to upload it now even if I redo it, with all the realism mods floating around. I have no idea what's in the realism mods, but this is probably covered.
  16:18:05  9 June 2007
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Ceano
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On forum: 03/02/2006
 

Message edited by:
Ceano
06/09/2007 16:28:14
Messages: 4820
I agree that the accuracy system is way off from reality, but i think it is hard to establish it in a game. I'm a 42 year old sniper and have been a sniper for 21 years...this is my rifle that i own and use.
Accuracy International Super Magnum
[link]http://www.accuracyinternational.com[/link]

Here is some additional information of the rifle;
Caliber: .338 Lapua (8.60x70mm), .300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag
Operation: Bolt Action
Length: 50 inches
Weight: 14.99 lbs (6.8kg) empty without telescope
Barrel: 27" (.338 Lapua), 26" (.300 and 7mm)
Magazine Capacity: 5 round box magazine
Maximum Effective Range: 1100 meters plus
Additional Features: 1 piece scope mount, Parker-Hale bipod
  08:03:53  13 June 2007
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Jed636
(Novice)
 
On forum: 06/13/2007
Messages: 8
Thats the British Forces L96
Veyr nice piece of kit!

Why didnt they consult you guys when developing this game, wouldnt need a single mod/change
  08:44:11  13 June 2007
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YuriRuler90
(Senior)
 
On forum: 06/03/2007
Messages: 134
I don't completely agree with the bullet system in the game, but it's pretty damn accurate.

For instance, in real life an AK-74 shot will yaw after 200m, at which point you have almost no chance of hitting a straight shot (although it's officially rated for 500m).

The G36 is a very realistic interpretation of its real life counterpart. The gun is a high quality piece of work, and it has a good straight shot line, but lower muzzle velocity and a smaller round.

I especially love the 9mm Pistols though. If you watch the ingame Pistols, the round kicks up at short ranges because the barrel actually kicks before the bullet leaves.
  01:52:06  18 June 2007
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TacitBlue
(Novice)
 
On forum: 06/14/2007
Messages: 7

---QUOTATION---
I have no problems with the targetting system. In fact, I think its one of the best out there. It sounds like you dislike the accuracy and the 'resetting position' of the iron sights.

First off, I don't think these guns were meant to be a dime shot. They're supposed to mimic real life weaponry and not be entirely accurate. I still have no problems killing.

As far as the iron sights go, I like the way the screen resets after each shot made. It keeps me from having to mouse down after every assault rifle shot I make. Thiswas something I hated in games like Day of Defeat. You had to constantly strive for perfect accuracy on the next shot.

Unless I misunderstood what you were saying, please clarify.
---END QUOTATION---



I own a gun in real life, it is not even close to what you would call a "dime shot" and it hits what I point it at. It might not hit exactly where the crosshairs lie, but the bullet always passes through the target if I've taken careful aim.
  01:54:26  18 June 2007
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TacitBlue
(Novice)
 
On forum: 06/14/2007
 

Message edited by:
TacitBlue
06/18/2007 2:00:30
Messages: 7

---QUOTATION---

What makes a gun "innacurate" is the human using it. Breathing, muscles twitching and our inability to calculate muzzle velocity, widn resistance and the effects of gravity are what makes us miss the target.

---END QUOTATION---


This is only partially true, some gun designs are inherently more or less accurate than others. Other things that are factors are the quality of the ammunition used, modifications to the weapon (free floating barrels) etc etc.
  02:35:38  25 June 2007
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Alamarian
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/04/2004
 

Message edited by:
Alamarian
06/25/2007 2:49:45
Messages: 39

---QUOTATION---
More realistic values for dispersion are about 0.16-0.18 (40" at 40yards) for the sawn-off
---END QUOTATION---



I would call that a little optimistic. Once all the powder has burned, choke determines the pattern. But the barrels of the in-game sawn off are probably 10" long, which is not enough to get them up to full power. A very short shotguns will tend to have "holes" in its pattern. It isn't uniform like it should be, more like a doughnut or some other trans-fat filled dessert shape.


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Nine pellet 00-buck is more common than ten pellet 00-buck anyway (although the SPAS can fire 12 pellet magnum shells...).
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The SPAS has a standard two and three-fourths inch chamber. 12 pellet 00 shells are three inch.


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If you watch the ingame Pistols, the round kicks up at short ranges because the barrel actually kicks before the bullet leaves.
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The round has left the barrel before recoils begins. I can show you a video that proves this, though I would have to upload it to rapidshare(photobucket and .mov don't get along). It shoots "up" because the bullet has a parabolic trajectory. You don't send a bullet from point A to point B in a straight line. When you throw a rock, you have to throw it higher than the target to compensate for gravity. Same basic principle.
 
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