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READ & LEARN: Damage, Target Neutralization, Energy, and Caliber

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  09:41:00  12 January 2005
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ulukai
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2004
 

Message edited by:
ulukai
01/12/2005 9:46:02
Messages: 220

---QUOTATION---
Uh, i got some close up pics. I dont own one though, I know a few people though, what shots do you need?
---END QUOTATION---


Well, any good (800x600) pics would help, but these especially:

1.) shots from these angles:
[link]http://test333.szm.sk/p90_01.jpg[/link]
[link]http://test333.szm.sk/p90_04.jpg[/link]
[link]http://test333.szm.sk/p90_05.jpg[/link]

2.) close-ups of these parts
[link]http://test333.szm.sk/p90_02.jpg[/link]
[link]http://test333.szm.sk/p90_03.jpg[/link]


I rendered those images from "pre-production" stage of modeling, where I try to find the basic shapes, so these by no means represent the final quality of this product


--EDIT--
In previous post I have written: ".... searched web like mad, bud could find images from some..." - but it should be: ".... mad, bud could NOT find...."
  01:53:00  12 January 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
A bit off-topic, but....:

Has anyone access to P90 (or other modern weapons)?
I'm modeling P90 in 3dsmax and however ridiculous it may sound, I have searched web like mad, bud could find images from some view points (have found tons from side view).

If someone has access to p90 and could take some shots..., it would be great!

Thanks.
---END QUOTATION---



Uh, i got some close up pics. I dont own one though, I know a few people though, what shots do you need?
  20:54:20  11 January 2005
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ulukai
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2004
 

Message edited by:
ulukai
01/12/2005 9:41:56
Messages: 220
A bit off-topic, but....:

Has anyone access to P90 (or other modern weapons)?
I'm modeling P90 in 3dsmax and however ridiculous it may sound, I have searched web like mad, bud could not find images from some view points (have found tons from side view).

If someone has access to p90 and could take some shots..., it would be great!

Thanks.
  20:32:20  11 January 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
 

Message edited by:
x5060
01/11/2005 20:32:56
Messages: 2015
Ok, sorry it got kind of hectic at work and this is the first time ive gotten a chance to look at anything other than work in the past few days. A lots happened in the thread and i dont want to make this long becasue im tired and want ot go to bed.

1. We arnt sending our soilders out for oil. America is already make an effort to move to better cleaner fuel sources. with tens of billions of dollars put toword research for new fuel sources, we are leading every other country in funding for such research.

2. You were suppose to look at the picture. =

3. Every country has this thing called the "Black Market" as things become banned and outlawed other illegal markets will increase to adapt for a shortage. Basic economic principle mandates this. This only leaves all the law abiding citizens defensless.

4. Im glad you feel safe, I dont live in a very good part of town, and work will call me away to even worse areas then where i live. You may have the luxury of feeling safe everywhere you go, but not everyone does.

5. The UN hasent done anything useful in the world since October 24, 1945. They have not stoped one war, ended one famine, or even had a positive ROI. they suck up the money of all countries that could be doing some good somewhere, and the delegates have only become corrupt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/11/wun311.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/11/ixnewstop.html
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/104ccmvi.asp
http://nypost.com/news/worldnews/38017.htm
http://washingtontimes.com/world/20050107-125919-3038r.htm

Thank you and good night.
  22:23:22  10 January 2005
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baff
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/16/2004
 

Message edited by:
baff
01/10/2005 22:34:02
Messages: 708

---QUOTATION---
Resolution 687
Resolution 1205
Resolution 1284

No, there was no new resoulution it would have been redundant. But we were getting a little POed that the "enforcement" of the resolutions was nada.
---END QUOTATION---




687 was enforced
1205 was enforced
1284 was enforced



saddam was in full compliance with all security resolutions.
u.n. weapons inspectors under hans blix confirmed this.
(had they not done, our generals would not have been so willing to commit our troops).

colin powel gave that great presentation showing all of saddams breaches, blix checked them and found all the intelligence to be in error.
so we invaded.

if your familiar with sun tzu's art of war, you may find that particular moment to be a masterstroke of military generalling. powells finest hour. he must have been grinning his little face off to himself back in the hotel room that night.

with the benefit of hind sight.......
history has confirmed blix and saddam as correct.
even the u.s. weapons inspector has recanted.


ultimately
it is not for america or britain to decide whether u.n. resolutions have been complied with or not, the decision rides with the security council.
thats the point of having a u.n.
to stop individual nations going off half cocked into needless wars that interefere with everyone elses intrests.
to keep the peace.

we have a "veto" to stop ludicrous mandates, but not a "carte blanche" to make them.

1441 was the resolution we were all cited in britain as our u.n. mandate. we all swore blind that even if he wasn't in breach of it, (and all the evidence said he wasn't), he wanted to be and that was good enough for us.
even though 1441 had already been enforced, we thought we might as well enforce it some more and mount our weapons inspectors on tanks this time.

there was no u.n. mandate.
but who could stop us?

as for the americans being POed.
that about sums it up. you have been since 11/9.

the big question is, are you all over it yet, or is the blood still pumping?
  21:07:58  10 January 2005
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Doc Jones
Older than before
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/09/2003
Messages: 2008
Resolution 687
Resolution 1205
Resolution 1284

No, there was no new resoulution it would have been redundant. But we were getting a little POed that the "enforcement" of the resolutions was nada.
  18:30:09  10 January 2005
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baff
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/16/2004
 

Message edited by:
baff
01/10/2005 18:34:41
Messages: 708

---QUOTATION---
but since i know that a majority of the english population is against the war already
---END QUOTATION---


it's about half and half.

we're british. we love war.

it would take one hell of a defeat (and we've had a few), to put us off it.

most of the disatisfaction comes from the politcal storytelling we have had to put up with.

had they said, "the americans are good old boys lets go to war beside them"
or
"it's important for the (longterm) u.s. economy and we have a lot of pension funds tied up there"
or
"our army will get sloppy if it doesn't get some action"

we would have been a lot more comfortable with the current situation.

there has alway been a strong anti war lobby here, but it will never get in power. at least not until we are utterly and humiliating crushed in combat in the stlye of germany or japan in ww2.
we're too proud of our military tradition not to want a chance to demonstrate it.
the last government to refuse to go to war (1938) got promptly unelected.
  18:07:06  10 January 2005
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baff
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/16/2004
 

Message edited by:
baff
01/10/2005 18:56:51
Messages: 708

---QUOTATION---
Oh sure, the WORLD never had any thought that the US would take military action when they signed the resolution, right.
---END QUOTATION---



sorry doc but thats a gross distortion of history.

no resolution was tabled. let aloned signed.
the british wanted to propose one but realising there was no support for it, didn't bother.

the british parliament voted for war only on the premise of a u.n. resolution.
no resolution was even tabled. the brits still went to war.
democracy in action.
3 million people took to the streets in the largest protest in the history of great Briton.


there was a resolution tabled for operation desert fox or maybe desert storm i believe.
perhaps that is the one you are refering to.

in fact the members of the u.n. security council at the time promised that should a resolution be tabled they would vote against it. with the vote already unable to be won, france even went so far as to promise to use their veto. (something it has never actually done but often prevaricates).
had an attack been in the intrests of the other members of the u.n., they would have signalled their willingness to vote for action. it wasn't so they didn't.

if it makes things any clearer, the president of the u.n. described the coalitions actions as "illegal". (and, predictably, has since been demonised by the bush administration).


had it not been a key requisite of the parlimentry vote here, it would not have been an issue.
we have mounted attacks in both iraq and kosovo without u.n. sanction previous to this one.


it's too easy to blow off against either the u.s. or the u.n. on this one.
diplomatically bush is about as popular as hitler at the moment, his clear disregard for the U.N. reminds everyone of hitler and the league of nations. it's almost word for word.
he's almost daring it to bring sanctions against him. unbelieveable.
the u.n was started by the u.s. and idealistically is the closest system we have to a global democracy. 10 years ago the U.S. was seen as it's natural leader. how things change.
the u.s. people will live under a cloud of bad feeling for many years to come. and like with the germans the rest of the world won't allow them to forget.

comicaly my american friends and relatives all say they are german or canadian whilst over here these days. saves a load of abuse.

i get earbashed about iraq on the continent because i'm british, but it has yet to start bar brawls like it does here with the yanks.

funny old world.
  06:30:50  10 January 2005
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Doc Jones
Older than before
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/09/2003
 

Message edited by:
Doc Jones
01/10/2005 6:37:32
Messages: 2008
No-one who really crunches the numbers chants "blood for oil".


---QUOTATION---
---QUOTATION---

Well this war is not for oil. if you think that your a fool. You would know that if you were to look at our oil prices we now pay 1.70$-1.80$ a gallon for gas and in several places upwards of 2.60$. at the start of the war we were paying 1.10$-1.20$ a gallon. If you say we're doing it for the oil then this make NO SENSE. You need to stop believing everything you hear.
---END QUOTATION---


Keep telling yourself that. Ever heard of preparing for the future? The oil will be depleted in roughly 50 years, and until then Americas government is going to try to get their flotty hands on any oil they can find, so yes.. the war is about the oil, and it makes a lot of sense. If you think Bush went to war against the opinion of most of the world and on vague reasons to help a country, then you are a fool.
---END QUOTATION---



Yeah, a pretty typical response.

It was all on TV.

US asks UN to go in on them with a resolution against Iraq.
Iraq did not comply.
US took action because we got damn tired of waiting for UN to fulfil their end of the resolution.

Oh sure, the WORLD never had any thought that the US would take military action when they signed the resolution, right.
  16:40:50  9 January 2005
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Snakeskin
(Novice)
 
On forum: 01/08/2005
Messages: 12

---QUOTATION---

Well this war is not for oil. if you think that your a fool. You would know that if you were to look at our oil prices we now pay 1.70$-1.80$ a gallon for gas and in several places upwards of 2.60$. at the start of the war we were paying 1.10$-1.20$ a gallon. If you say we're doing it for the oil then this make NO SENSE. You need to stop believing everything you hear.
---END QUOTATION---



Keep telling yourself that. Ever heard of preparing for the future? The oil will be depleted in roughly 50 years, and until then Americas government is going to try to get their flotty hands on any oil they can find, so yes.. the war is about the oil, and it makes a lot of sense. If you think Bush went to war against the opinion of most of the world and on vague reasons to help a country, then you are a fool.


---QUOTATION---
As for your connection, just keep believing what everyone else has told you, its much easier than thinking.
---END QUOTATION---


Funny to hear you saying that..


---QUOTATION---

Seeing as to how the so called police force and military was such a corupt orgonization that was responsible for the ATROCITIES of saddam i dont see how you could trust them to run the country and protect it. Personally i dont know anything about "missing money" but we are dumping billions of dollars into rebuilding that country so they will have a better life. what has your country done for them?
---END QUOTATION---



The majority of policemen and soldiers were of course not corrupt. They were ordinary guys like police in Sweden or soldiers in America. If you think that every one in iraq, or any muslim is evil - a bad guy, then it is you using stereotypes. It would have sufficed to replace the authorities, the leaders. Perhaps with americans or the like but still. Then gradually leave the country while giving the new iraqi leaders something to keep teir country secure with.


---QUOTATION---

You dont think its justified becasue you ignore the problem, because YOU are not the target. Someday your country will get a turn at what happened to us, then you will cry "why did you let this happen to us!?!?!" Adn we will be blamed, like usual for anything we do and everything we dont do.
---END QUOTATION---



Yeah, perhaps someday someone will see Sweden as a suppressing nation and fly a couple of planes into something here. But we will certainly not blame George Bush or Saddam for it, because it probably was the act of an independent organization. We dont need an "evil guy" to shake our fists at.
About america being blamed, i think to some degree that it is justified. By all means you have got the resourses to stop many evils in the world, but you dont. Barricading inside your country of "freedom" spending money on the military and other useful things. If the military budget in america was used one day to research a cure for AIDS it would most likely find one. It is not all about you, and if you really want to be looked up to as an ideal for others, then act that way, help people in need instead of spurring the conflict in Jerusalem for example. Or for starters just help the population in your own country, equalize the class differences between people in america instead of helping the rich get even richer. American dream.. bah.. i would like to see a black woman as the president of the united states.


---QUOTATION---

We have a comparitivly low crime rate to most other countries including but not limited to all of africa, all of south america, most of eroupe (with the few exceptions of Germany, Switzerland, denmark, and norway), and most of the southern asian countrys and china.
---END QUOTATION---



I do not know where you got your numbers but the number of deaths in america caused by weapons is bizarre compared to other countries for example. Seen Bowling for Columbine lately? I for one would not feel safe living in a country like that.


---QUOTATION---

Americans are also not allowed to own automatic weapons in normal situations. You must pay thousands of dollars to apply for a title 2 classification, then compound that the BATFE can turn you down for no more reason than they dont like the sound of your name. then you have to wait 2 years then you have to deal with the least expensive fully automatic weapon is about 6000$.
---END QUOTATION---



I did not know that, thanks for telling me. But weapons is so much easier to get hold of in america compared to Sweden for example. Justify it if you want by calling it items of protection or wahtever, if the criminals never got a hold of firearms you would not have to either.


---QUOTATION---

I havent heard of anyones voting rights being TAKEN AWAY. Ive heard of people that showed up to vote that had no identification, no way of proving who they are, or who are not US citizens being turned down to vote.
---END QUOTATION---



Then i am telling you now, once again. People having served time in USA do not have the privilege of voting anymore. I dont know about you but here we see a prisoner as having made up for his crime when his time in jail ends. Bush´s largest amount of votes isnt exactly from former criminals and poor. By creating this law he easily eliminated some opposition.


---QUOTATION---

I carry a weapon, i dont see exercising my right to self protection as a liability as you do.
---END QUOTATION---



I do not carry a weapon, and i am proud of it. I feel safe walking the streets hours after midnight without a firearm, because i know that this country has not got nearly the amount of gun-toting lunatics as yours does.


---QUOTATION---

And personally, im atheist.
---END QUOTATION---



Good for you. Mee to.


---QUOTATION---

Your the one that decided this would take place in a public forum, not i. Its convient to spout garbage then say im being childish because i defend myself in the same medium as you.
---END QUOTATION---



Well, firstly i do not see my statements as garbage. Neither do i see yours as garbage, because in most areas you have had good arguments and valid points. I have not said you were being childish, if you consider your posts irrelevant, and childish that is entirely you. i merely wished to stop the answers that might go something like this:

"fuck you you americanhater, your just jealous cos u dont live in the best coutry of the wold and is free like us!!!!1111!!!"

Thanks for me. /S
 
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