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Why no peaceful mutant AI?

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  23:18:59  7 April 2004
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655321
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/07/2004
Messages: 77
Why no peaceful mutant AI?

"The AI system has about 200 parameters, which are constantly evaluated for response, where they evaluate their chances of victory - where they panic, where they are sure of their victory and so on. For now we have simplified it intentionally to increase those parameters otherwise we have a chance for the player to wander around and just come across peaceful monsters not attacking him - it might not be so much fun for you to play."~Oleg Yavorsky

I understand why most creatures should be hostile simply to make the game enjoyable, but why not a few peaceful prey animals as well? Cowardly pack hunters could go after these animals, such as mutated deer, insects, cats, etc. That way the predators wouldnt constantly be clashing with one another and offer more eye candy and gameplay possibilities for stalkers, such as decoys, baiting, and walkarounds during a feast.

On an unrelated note, it is said there will be about 100 other stalkers in the game. If you murder them all, will more replace them or will it just be between you, and the mutations?

Discuss.
  23:56:22  7 April 2004
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Don Reba
Bishop and Councilor of War
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On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11616

---QUOTATION---
Q: Another question, about the inhabitants of the Zone: will there be harmless animals like mutated cows or cats? Not dangerous, but atomsperic?
A: Crows. All other animals of the Zone are interesting for gameplay. At first, even rats will be frightening for the player, but later on they will flee, since everyone wants to live. Understand, it is irrational to spend two months on a creation that does not affect gameplay. Monsters are not idiots. This is not Serious Sam, where everything come out at you. All our monsters have motives for their actions: how well the opponent is armed, how hungry the creature is, where it is, whether there are creatures of the same kind nearby... This gives great diversity. They do not act by predetermined templates, therefore there is not a great need in useless background creatures.
I think the situation when in certatin situations regular mutants take on the role of harmless creatures is possible - cpcat
---END QUOTATION---

[link]http://oblivionlost.deloo.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6[/link]

Yes, new stalkers will eventually take place of the dead ones.
  00:01:33  8 April 2004
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Yoda
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On forum: 03/20/2004
Messages: 28
I think I heard a while back that new rookie Stalkers would replace the dead ones, becasue think about throughout the game not only will you kill other stalkers because you needed to or becasue you wanted to but Stalkers will meet and unfortunate end by mutants, NPC Stalkers, Military soldiers, starvation, blowouts and anomolies. So by not replacing them the zone will seem very lonly after a while. I wonder how many of the original stalkers would survive to the end of the game? Probably only a handful, the Zone is very harsh.
  00:17:48  8 April 2004
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655321
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On forum: 04/07/2004
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Highly appreciated, thanks for the link as well!
  22:29:06  8 April 2004
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Claws
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On forum: 10/23/2002
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---QUOTATION---
Why no peaceful mutant AI?

"The AI system has about 200 parameters, which are constantly evaluated for response, where they evaluate their chances of victory - where they panic, where they are sure of their victory and so on. For now we have simplified it intentionally to increase those parameters otherwise we have a chance for the player to wander around and just come across peaceful monsters not attacking him - it might not be so much fun for you to play."~Oleg Yavorsky

---END QUOTATION---



I believe Oleg was referring to the gameplay presentation. The full game will not have simplified parameters, i.e. there will be peaceful monsters.
  22:47:09  8 April 2004
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Naaaaa
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On forum: 04/07/2004
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---QUOTATION---
Why no peaceful mutant AI?

"The AI system has about 200 parameters, which are constantly evaluated for response, where they evaluate their chances of victory - where they panic, where they are sure of their victory and so on. For now we have simplified it intentionally to increase those parameters otherwise we have a chance for the player to wander around and just come across peaceful monsters not attacking him - it might not be so much fun for you to play."~Oleg Yavorsky


I believe Oleg was referring to the gameplay presentation. The full game will not have simplified parameters, i.e. there will be peaceful monsters.
---END QUOTATION---



I think it means only less chance of it.
  21:07:47  9 April 2004
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Karnie
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On forum: 03/19/2004
 

Message edited by:
Karnie
04/09/2004 21:08:53
Messages: 532
The way they have it set up is more intense..... basically you could see a wolf-rat (rat-wolf?) and wonder, "is it hostile?" as you approach it, it looks at you and wanders off, and you think it's safe and turn around to leave. Just then it's hunger stat drops and suddenly jumps you from behind, scaring the cr@p out of you!! Much better than just having passive cows or deer wandering around, you never know when an animal might turn on you!
  07:51:20  12 April 2004
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Leper Messiah
<(<(-<(-_-)>-)>)> Kirby Army
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On forum: 01/15/2004
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---QUOTATION---
The way they have it set up is more intense..... basically you could see a wolf-rat (rat-wolf?) and wonder, "is it hostile?" as you approach it, it looks at you and wanders off, and you think it's safe and turn around to leave. Just then it's hunger stat drops and suddenly jumps you from behind, scaring the cr@p out of you!! Much better than just having passive cows or deer wandering around, you never know when an animal might turn on you!
---END QUOTATION---



yeah that would be cool. And it would making hunting for food a little easier in some cases. "here kitty kittky!".
  10:20:08  12 April 2004
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Kristophan
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On forum: 12/10/2003
Messages: 120

---QUOTATION---
I believe Oleg was referring to the gameplay presentation. The full game will not have simplified parameters, i.e. there will be peaceful monsters.
---END QUOTATION---



I seem to remember reading that they considered anything that doesn't attack you as superfluous to gameplay. I hope they've reconsidered.
  19:56:45  16 April 2004
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baff
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On forum: 04/16/2004
 

Message edited by:
baff
04/16/2004 19:57:22
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peaceful ai?

can you imagine if facehuggers in alien only cuddled?

all that time and effort spent animating guns and coding ballistics and then the AI turn into peaceniks.
all the players start getting bored and interior design the old power station, while others plan theme park. and a fourth player re opens the railway and gets rich.

then again if you can ride one of those cows, or tip it over when it was asleep.....
  06:45:15  15 May 2004
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xenok5
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On forum: 04/19/2004
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---QUOTATION---
peaceful ai?

can you imagine if facehuggers in alien only cuddled?

---END QUOTATION---




I think they mean, the monsters will be peaceful at times. Much like how most predatory animals are less prone to attack you when they're full. I remember Oleg saying something about that in one of the interviews.. But this doesn't mean creatures like the "Bloodsucker" will be docile at times, I think they'll always try to kill you.

I like the concept, it adds more depth into the game. I like the fact, I can camp in some bushes and watch the creatures roam about - esspecially the "devil dogs". I read on IGN that the non-handicapted Devil Dogs like to herd the blind ones into highly radioactive areas and watch them explode. That'll be quite a sight for sure.
  07:59:45  15 May 2004
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doggydog
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---QUOTATION---
I read on IGN that the non-handicapted Devil Dogs like to herd the blind ones into highly radioactive areas and watch them explode. That'll be quite a sight for sure.
---END QUOTATION---



treachery among dogs! BOOM! me like me like.
  10:25:59  15 May 2004
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!nF3rnuZ
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On forum: 05/01/2004
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Maybe mutant can be called "peaceful",if they don't attack you.for example,when the mutant eats meat and is too busy to attack.
  11:49:59  15 May 2004
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doggydog
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And those who just can't stand peaceful mutants can always attack the beast to get it to fight you, unless it runs ofcourse.
  12:02:00  15 May 2004
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!nF3rnuZ
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Pretty much,yeah
  18:18:49  17 May 2004
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GSC-El*Hefe
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On forum: 05/17/2004
Messages: 18
they will be peaceful, when they are not hungry or there are not many of them, but do they know that you are peaceful
  05:47:18  19 May 2004
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Pika-Cthulhu
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On forum: 05/19/2004
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How about some kind of lure/decoy, where you can distract the creatures for a certain ammount of time, perhaps some sort of psi-emitter to distract the psychic mutants, it generates a strong field that they go and investigate, giving you time to sneak in while thier minds are occupied elsewhere? its not exactly peacefull mutant AI, but it adds to you chance of survival.

Or a benevolent type of creature that lives in the zone, doesnt try to kill you (unless you attack it) and can help you in certain ways. Would add an interesting element to the 'duty' stalkers, who want to eradicate all mutant life forms, perhaps they (The happy mutants, for lack of a better term) could give you a mission to guard/protect their leader while he tries to establish contact with the military. Would add an intersting twist, you might end up working for the muties (old fallout term) against everyone else. Maybe they are/were the remnants of a scientific community/laboratory that somehow survived the accident, and mutated to thier surroundings,t hey also are looking for artifacts and weapons to defend themselves against the growing dangerous mutants.
  10:30:10  29 June 2004
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alc'o'SHoLiK
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/14/2004
Messages: 60

---QUOTATION---
Why no peaceful mutant AI?

"The AI system has about 200 parameters, which are constantly evaluated for response, where they evaluate their chances of victory - where they panic, where they are sure of their victory and so on. For now we have simplified it intentionally to increase those parameters otherwise we have a chance for the player to wander around and just come across peaceful monsters not attacking him - it might not be so much fun for you to play."~Oleg Yavorsky

I understand why most creatures should be hostile simply to make the game enjoyable, but why not a few peaceful prey animals as well? Cowardly pack hunters could go after these animals, such as mutated deer, insects, cats, etc. That way the predators wouldnt constantly be clashing with one another and offer more eye candy and gameplay possibilities for stalkers, such as decoys, baiting, and walkarounds during a feast.

On an unrelated note, it is said there will be about 100 other stalkers in the game. If you murder them all, will more replace them or will it just be between you, and the mutations?

Discuss.
---END QUOTATION---



If you don't know what's radiance then I tell you: cats would probably not stay alive, and there are no dears in Chernobyl.
  09:14:01  5 July 2004
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Kristophan
(Senior)
 
On forum: 12/10/2003
Messages: 120

---QUOTATION---
If you don't know what's radiance then I tell you: cats would probably not stay alive, and there are no dears in Chernobyl.
---END QUOTATION---



The birds seem to be doing fine.

(I asume you mean radiation).
  21:36:27  5 July 2004
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Doc Jones
Older than before
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On forum: 10/09/2003
 

Message edited by:
Doc Jones
07/05/2004 21:41:22
Messages: 2008

---QUOTATION---
If you don't know what's radiance then I tell you: cats would probably not stay alive, and there are no dears in Chernobyl.
---END QUOTATION---



Hmmmm. Google is the friend of people who rather know than guess.


---QUOTATION---
During recent visits to Chernobyl, we experienced numerous sightings of moose (Alces alces), roe deer (Capreol capreolus), Russian wild boar (Sus scrofa), foxes (Vulpes vulpes), river otter (Lutra canadensis), and rabbits (Lepus europaeus) within the 10-km exclusion zone.
---END QUOTATION---



I believe them because they use ultra fancy words. Although you may be right they don't say they saw any dears.

More more...


---QUOTATION---
In these areas the forest looks as though it has been struck by lightning. Efforts are being made to bury radioactive trees, but the financial burden is too great. Only the animals remain. "There are large numbers of wild deer, elk and boar because it is a closed area," said Professor Alexander Stozharov, director of the Research Institute of Radiation Medicine. "Some are shot by the guards because they can transmit radiation to the clean zones."
---END QUOTATION---



Interesting link.

[link]http://www.viridiandesign.org/notes/151-175/00166_chernobyl_wildlife_park.html[/link]


What's my name?
  00:28:34  9 July 2004
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*Commander*
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/07/2004
Messages: 4
I think that there should possibly be a few peaceful creatures in stalker. It worked in commander keen 3 with those little yellow scaredy things you could crush or pop at will . It would be nice to see something that could match the AI of the creatures in that game.
  03:01:04  9 July 2004
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illegaloperation
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/07/2004
Messages: 13

---QUOTATION---
I think that there should possibly be a few peaceful creatures in stalker. It worked in commander keen 3 with those little yellow scaredy things you could crush or pop at will . It would be nice to see something that could match the AI of the creatures in that game.
---END QUOTATION---


Omg I remember playing commander keen lol.
  11:16:29  9 July 2004
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doggydog
Tripping on waste
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i don't know anything about that... must be really old
  14:12:37  9 July 2004
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9of9
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On forum: 04/05/2004
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---QUOTATION---
i don't know anything about that... must be really old
---END QUOTATION---



Shame on you - granddaddy of Doom , a classic.
  15:26:30  9 July 2004
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doggydog
Tripping on waste
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On forum: 03/06/2004
 

Message edited by:
doggydog
07/09/2004 15:30:50
Messages: 1524

---QUOTATION---
Shame on you - granddaddy of Doom , a classic.
---END QUOTATION---



Is there a demo for windows somewhere

edit: it didn't take me long to realize what a stupid question this was
  23:37:33  9 July 2004
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IceShade
Tactical Ignorance
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On forum: 04/05/2004
 

Message edited by:
IceShade
07/09/2004 23:53:01
Messages: 1037

---QUOTATION---
Shame on you - granddaddy of Doom , a classic.

Is there a demo for windows somewhere

edit: it didn't take me long to realize what a stupid question this was
---END QUOTATION---



I really, really, really enjoyed Commander Keen ... I had every game in the series. Until a virus whiped out all of them but 2... Sniff..


EDIT:

I had the second episode... something with Exploding in the title. Dunno.
And I had this one too: http://members.chello.nl/j.tops1/content/gamesinhoud/keenlogo.jpg

Spent MANY hours on that game

EDIT 2:

I actually found that episode. No sound though. Looks like fun ;D
  23:53:04  9 July 2004
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Doc Jones
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On forum: 10/09/2003
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---QUOTATION---

And I had this one too: http://members.chello.nl/j.tops1/content/gamesinhoud/keenlogo.jpg

Spent MANY hours on that game
---END QUOTATION---



That's the only one I've played. I think it came with Doom, DoomII, Quake or something. I forget, I'm pretty sure I didn't find it on my own. It was fun, but I didn't play it very long so I don't remember much about it.
  23:57:32  9 July 2004
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Khazar
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/03/2004
Messages: 39

---QUOTATION---

And I had this one too: http://members.chello.nl/j.tops1/content/gamesinhoud/keenlogo.jpg

Spent MANY hours on that game

That's the only one I've played. I think it came with Doom, DoomII, Quake or something. I forget, I'm pretty sure I didn't find it on my own. It was fun, but I didn't play it very long so I don't remember much about it.
---END QUOTATION---



Played it a few weeks but then.. Duke Nuken roze on the horizon.. lol that shit was awesome
  00:49:43  10 July 2004
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IceShade
Tactical Ignorance
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On forum: 04/05/2004
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Hey, how do you take a screenshot when playing a dos game?
  01:44:56  10 July 2004
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Doc Jones
Older than before
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On forum: 10/09/2003
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---QUOTATION---
Hey, how do you take a screenshot when playing a dos game?
---END QUOTATION---



I think you'd have to window it and use print scrn.
  03:27:35  10 July 2004
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IceShade
Tactical Ignorance
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On forum: 04/05/2004
Messages: 1037

---QUOTATION---
Hey, how do you take a screenshot when playing a dos game?

I think you'd have to window it and use print scrn.
---END QUOTATION---



Tougher than I thought. It will only minimize and maximize
  12:46:47  10 July 2004
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9of9
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You can always use DosBox - it normally runs in a screen
  02:07:54  11 July 2004
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IceShade
Tactical Ignorance
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On forum: 04/05/2004
Messages: 1037

---QUOTATION---
You can always use DosBox - it normally runs in a screen
---END QUOTATION---




Thank you sir!

Here's the result:

http://img30.exs.cx/img30/2666/Keen.jpg
  02:51:29  11 July 2004
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IceShade
Tactical Ignorance
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On forum: 04/05/2004
 

Message edited by:
IceShade
07/11/2004 2:53:05
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Well.. Finished that Keen game. Hopefully I can dig up the next episode somewhere.
  05:40:33  28 November 2004
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ThatGuy25X
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/01/2004
Messages: 18
WHY?

One thing I don't get is WHY anyone would WANT to go after creatures intentionaly. I mean, it's not like fighting other stalkers or soldiers, you can at least pick up they'r guns and supplies, but creatures don't carry guns... at least I don't think they do... Is there like some weird loot that can be traded like fangs or skins? Thats getting pretty lame MMORPG loot to me. Maybe some of the intelligent ones like burers could carry artifacts... If the Snork from the Monster's Ball makes it in, he probably carries random items like ammo.
  19:16:55  28 November 2004
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Stiler
о §┼§ о
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On forum: 05/20/2003
Messages: 474
Some of you people...


We aren't talking about makin EVERYTHING passive and not aggressive, just some.


With the advanced AI of stalker, it makes absolutely no sense to not have SOME passive wildlife.

I mean it just seems a bit weird (and annoying for a lot of people) if every single little think is aggressive to you.

Everything shouldn't be aggressive toward you, there should be somethings that are for the most part non-aggressive.

It makes the world feel more alive.

You can't tell me it won't get annoying if everytime you see ANYTHING you have to shoot it because you know it is aggressive and might attack you.

When I picture the Stalker world, I picture my stalker stalking through the land, coming upon a small stream and seeing some animal drinking from it. Then walking up to the stream and filling up my water canteen and the animal glancing at me and then I walk away. Then a pack of mutant dogs rush and attack the animal and I kill them and scanvage them for food

It just add's another more realistic layer to the game world, makes it more believable.
  19:42:22  28 November 2004
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Klutz
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/07/2004
Messages: 95

---QUOTATION---
We aren't talking about makin EVERYTHING passive and not aggressive, just some.
---END QUOTATION---



I gotta agree here. I'd like to see some passive critters wandering around. It would make for a more believable (or working) eco-system I think. Plus it would provide a food source for the predators and even the STALKERS at times, if they're caught in the ZONE with less than enough supplies.
  14:26:37  14 December 2004
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E.D.G.A.R.
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On forum: 11/29/2004
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I think, there must be some creatures who will ignore player, until he goes in creature (mutant) teritory, or close to creature.
Then it could become angry and atack
  21:37:30  15 May 2005
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vasillij
(Novice)
 
On forum: 05/15/2005
 

Message edited by:
vasillij
05/15/2005 21:38:29
Messages: 27
I agree that the AI should be peacefull at moments, not entire game
Like.. Imagine this : You are walking downtown to find some artifacts. Suddenly you see a blind dog, but he's alone. Since you are a pacifist you can't force to shoot this creature of nature, and offer a box of food.
Slowly the dog, comes closer wagging what's left of it's tale, but is unsure, for it's the first time inn ages someone has helped it. It likes the food and you slowy walk closer to the greatfull animal.

---LATER---

You are inn combat and have trained that dog to attack on command, but when it gets hurt... It wanted revenge! And not on the dead attacker, but the person that wasen't protecting it! YOU!
 
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