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Firing from vehicles?

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  21:03:51  21 January 2004
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On forum: 01/18/2004
Messages: 11
Yeah, it always sort of bothers me a bit when bullets travel instantly. One of the coolest things about tribes is its firing physics and jetpack duels, where if you're moving sideways in the air and fire, the disc will travel forward at its normal speed, and also sideways at your speed.

It bothers me when I shoot out of a moving vehicle in a game and instinctively aim behind the target (being so used to Tribes and such), but it turns out the fact that I'm moving sideways doesn't affect the bullet, and I have to adjust and aim straight for them. If you can shoot from moving reenforced vehicles in Stalker, however practical or foolish it may be, I certainly hope this won't happen. However, I'm sure (considering how realism-based Stalker seems to be) that this won't be a problem.
  17:25:09  7 March 2005
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On forum: 03/06/2005

Message edited by:
03/07/2005 17:35:08
Messages: 10
I think at least in the singleplayer the driver should have the option to steer with one hand and wield a pistol in the other, more to shoot point blank anything that tries to drag you out of your car, or gets into / onto the vehicle and increases in accuracy the slower the car is moving and the smoother the surface it is running on, if the car is stationary or moving slowly over a smooth road surface the accuracy should be the same as when using the pistol normally on foot. Sound right? Suggestions?

Also how realistic are the vehicle's damage model? At best I would expect it to be possible to totally riddle most of the redundant parts of the car with hundreds of bullets and have no real effects on it's handling and performance as long as no bullets hit the Radiator, Fuel Tank, Engine, Gearbox, Transmission, Axles , Steering wheel or steering column and mechanisms, Tires or Wheel Hubs while passing through the redundent stuff such as the roof, seats, sides and rear door and windows and to some degree the floor, through the floor functions as the structure of the car so too many bullets through it and the car would just come apart or distort and bend while driving which would break the transmission/Axles and halt the car if the structure flexes too much from being damaged by gunfire.

The different effects of hitting different parts would be relatively simple to code yet effective.

Hitting the radiator a couple of times would cause steam to billow up from the front grill and from under the bonnet and limit the driver's visibility and would often cause NPC and sometimes player drivers to become blind to what is in front of them and crash because of it, it would also cause the engine of the car to overheat rapidly and burn out soon afterwards, perhaps 5 minutes of hard running time, and would have to be shut off to cool often to prevent burnout or just abandon the car.

Hitting the fuel tank if realistic would not necessarily cause an instant imolatey fireball of doom, though each bullet hitting the gas tank would have a 20% to 30% chance of igniting the fuel which would have a small explosive effect but I doubt it would be enough to cause large initial physical damage to the whole of the vehicle though passengers above the tank may be injured and may wreck the transmission and halt the car. The main effect would be the fire which would ignite the close surrounding area under the rear of the car and quickly spread into the inside of the car and passenger compartment killing anyone and destroying anything that stays inside for too long and would eventually destroy the entire vehicle, perhaps with a 50% chance of a large explosion after 15 seconds of burning for variety. If the tank is hit but dosen't ignite it will start draining fuel rapidly, leaving a trail that can be followed and will stop the car once the fuel runs dry, Any suggestions?

Hitting the Engine enough times would simply cause the car to loose power with effects such as a few bangs, sparks and grinding noises and thick oily smoke from under the bonnet and the car would roll to a halt unless its rolling downhill in which case the smoke and oil on the windscreen may blind the driver and cause him/her to lose controll and crash, a small oil fire in the bonnet area could start but would pose minimal danger and would be more for effect than anything else.

Hitting the GearBox, Transmission or Axles would cause the cars thrust to become increasingly jerky along with sparks left behind the car and metal on metal grinding noises and have verry short periods where thrust is lost then regained and the effects would increase as more bullets hit untill the link between the Engine and Wheels is lost altogether with perhaps a recognisable loud metalic snap bringing the car rolling to a halt or a smaller chance of completely jamming the rear wheels stopping the car quickly.

Hitting any part or the steering mechanism such as Steering wheel or Controll Column may cause temporary loss of controll swerving the car in a random direction.

Hitting the Tyres would cause a blowout on the tyre hit (Not the Zonewide type) which could send the car spinning out of controll if moving fast and making the vehicle harder to controll afterwards and decreasing speed to some degree.

Hitting the Wheel Hubs would blow off the Hubcaps (if there are any) and have a chance of causing the wheel to grind and spark or even lock the wheel completely which would slow the car down due to the added resistance or could blow the wheel off entirely if the gun is high enough calibre or enough bullets connect. If both rear wheels lock or are blown off then the car would loose power and stop, unless it is front wheel drive in which case it is the opposite way around. Locked or missing wheels would weaken steering if front wheels are effected, a Locked damaged wheel may tear off at any time due to the extreme stress.

Crashing would be the hardest damage to simulate by far due to factors such as speed, what object is hit and how much force it hits with untill it gives way IF it gives way and the effects it can have on the structure which would effect all major components including Engine, Transmission, Steering and could cause injury to passengers and driver depending on how sharply the car decelerates and from what speed and whether the car rolls or not.
For example crashing a car into an un-yielding concrete wall at 80MPH will almost certainly result in a mangled car and all occupants dead.

While hitting a thin telegraph pole at 40MPH may simply result in light/medium random wounding for occupants and a semi drivable car with a great V shaped dent in the front bumper and bonnet area, grinding transmission, leaking radiator, misfiring engine and no more phonecalls for the local zombies.
Though an already damaged car may just give up the ghost completely.

Armour plates could be attatched to strategic areas such as on the passenger/driver doors, the bulkhead between the boot of the car and the rear passenger seats to protect the driver and passengers. Or over certain components such as the Front, Sides And top of the engine compartment or circular hubcap plates that would cover the hub and a small side part of the tires. An over armoured car would be heavy, slower, take longer to accelerate and brake, take more damage from crashes and landings from jumps or large bumps on or off road.

A heavily armoured car would function as a light mobile bunker that can be immobilized by accurate shots to the right places, and a bunker that would have to be hastily abandoned if the fuel tank is hit and gets ignited. Also realistic damage from explosives such as grenades or RPGs would be interesting, an RPG probably wont kill the driver if it hits the car at a point where there is some distance between the driver and the impact, but would tear off a large chunk of the car and almost certainly stop it in it's tracks even if it is over armoured but not blow it sky high with all hands lost.

Having some freedom to move around inside the car is a great idea, great for dispelling the feeling that you are an airfix man glued to the seat, using movement keys that would not normally be in use while driving or passenger in a vehicle is exellent for this, though the movement may be on rails to some degree such as moving from one side of the back seat to the other, or ducking down to take cover behind the armour plates (If there are any attached) with the crouch key, though when the driver ducks his head will need to be visable, as he needs to see to drive.

Also armour plates should only take so many bullets then would fall off all bent and battered and allow bullets to penetrate through the thin skin of the car below easily as normal.

Perhaps all of this is too much to be propely implemented and tested in the time left in development for S.T.A.L.K.E.R Though perhaps we can see some of the simpler ideas such as passengers being able to fire their guns from the windows, some simple level of customization and maintainance for vehicles such as to add armour plates and replace damaged parts such as the Radiator or wheels by finding another vehicle of the same type and cannibalizing it. Having the driver able to fire a pistol while driving would be handy also though the rest such as the advanced damage and effect model will have to show up in S.T.A.L.K.E.R II when computers are more powerfull, with an improved engine and more flexible and powerfull SDK if they decide to use the ideas.

Sorry for it being so long, just so many ideas in mind at moment so it become one the Quite Staggeringly Massive posts.
  20:56:55  7 March 2005
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Independant games developer.


On forum: 02/13/2005
Messages: 618
I heard about addons to vehicles, it would be cool if you could put armor plating on your car etc. get a bustype vehicle and put armor all over it and have chainsaws hanigin out the side AKA the bus from Dawn of the dead.
  04:40:24  8 March 2005
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On forum: 03/06/2005

Message edited by:
03/08/2005 4:45:47
Messages: 10
Yeah, a makeshift Armoured Bus could make an appearance in stalker, with a very strong reinforced structure behind the armour plates and a heavy duty bumper and plow to force its way through clogged streets. It might be able to have a stronger engine inplanted to make up for all the extra weight of the armour plates. Also could have a hole in the roof cut out and have a roof gun mounted in a similar way to the 50.Cal setup on Military Humvees. The bus could be a sort of home brewed jury rigged equivilent to the BRDM APC. It would be less effective, but simlar to the APC in its function, Large, heavy Tough, yet reasonably fast light armoured transport vehicle with mounted weaponry.

A possible senario involving such a Bus would be along the lines of Ripley's APC rampage from Aliens, fleeing from an overwhelming force of fast and deadly mutants thundering down streets and tunnels smashing aside anything that gets in the way, perhaps with an NPC gunner covering the rear, trying to keep anything from getting on and inside the bus.

The armour customization system would have to be simplified a little, there would be hardpoint areas for an armour plate to be welded to so there would be no need to code out a complicated system of having the player attaching different shape and size armour plates in anywhere on the vehicle, that can show up in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. II perhaps.

The hardpoint system would be simple, you could just select a hardpoint and chose the action to armour it which, if you have the supplies and equipment to do so would attach a pre-set armour plate of the correct shape and size in a snap-into-place fashion onto the vehicle model itself over the top of the hardpoint area. The hardpoints would be limited and would include:

Engine compartment front over the radiator grill, with some room for the grill to recieve air but would decrease airflow and make it easier for the engine to overheat but would protect the radiator and engine from most shots from the front until the armour plate object can take no more and detaches from the vehicle model and falls to the ground leaving the place it occupied empty for bullets to pass through as normal again.

Engine compartment left (A plate above the front left wheel arch)

Engine compartment right (A plate above the front right wheel arch)

Engine compartment Top (An armour plate covering some portion of the bonnet)

Front left door.

Front right door.

Rear left passenger door.

Rear right passenger door.

Rear door (Mostly for vans and buses, for cars the armour plate would be the bulkhead between the trunk/boot and the passenger compartment.

Front wheels (circular armour plates that would replace the hubcaps and would protect the hub and a small portion of the tires, both front left and right wheels would be armoured as one hardpoint, both wheels armoured at once)

Rear wheels (same as the front wheels, just involving the rear wheels instead).

Roof (to prevent bullets from above from easily penetrating and killing the occupants, the plate would be large but thinner than other plates, able to stop 9mm most of the time but only migitating some of the damage of assault rifle rounds)

This system would be relatively simple to implement.

Armour plates would have their own hitbox which most bullets would stop when hitting it, Each armour plate can only take so many bullets before physically snapping off and being left behind on the ground leaving the area it covered un-protected. Powerfull bullets may penetrate though but have their damage reduced after passing through the armour's hitbox. The effect the armour would have on a weapon such as an RPG would be to reduce the blast effect on the rest of the vehicle. However the armour would not be able to protect any component or passenger directly hit by the RPG even behind the armour plate.

An RPG hitting the front or sides of the engine compartment of an unarmoured car or hitting a gap between the plates of an armoured car would smash the engine to oblivion and blow a large chunk off the front of the car, severly wound or kill the driver but leave the passengers in the rear mostly unharmed aside from some shraphnel so if the passengers are armoured they should be capable of walking away with only light injuries, though if the RPG hits the rear or rear sides of the car the passengers may die or be severly wounded and have the driver survive instead due to his distance from the impact, an impact on an unarmoured side or rear surface may ignite the fueltank and start a fire.
An impact from above on the roof if unarmoured would injure all in the car equally with medium or severe wounds and would blow the roof itself off, though is less likely to disable the car unless shraphnel passes through the internal hitboxes of the transmission or fuel tank under the floor. Armouring the roof would decrease the wounding to occupants but roof itself may still be torn off leaving the passengers exposed.

An RPG hitting an armour plate over the engine compartment would destroy the engine, but have less chance of severly wounding the driver.

Another possible example would be an RPG hitting a rear passenger door that has an armour plate over it would blow the door off completely, anyone behind that door would take the Full force of the RPG and he would likely die but the actual blast would be limited, it may give the passenger on the opposite side of the rear seat severe shraphnel but he would be spared the brunt of the blast. It may also damage the wheel near the impact and/or damage the transmission and set it grinding and wearing down. The car would have a large chunk torn out of it, but that chunk would mostly be redundant structure such as the roof and door so the car could limp on, and perhaps give up the ghost later from worn down broken transmission.

The car woulden't be so fortunate if the RPG flies through a window and explodes inside, or hits a gap between the armour plates, as the plates dont cover 100% of their hardpoint area, they are just a thick plate roughly cut into shape and welded over tha area. The survival rate each would depend on how close they are to the blast and what restistance the RPG met.

Any suggestions?
  09:58:20  9 March 2005
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On forum: 02/06/2005

Message edited by:
03/09/2005 10:00:08
Messages: 87
Aye. You're not gonna be a sniper from a vehicle speeding along a dirt road, but you could still hit things, and, like Whoeveritwas said, it'll at least help keep the enemy's head down.
The effectiveness of driving and shooting has been proven in LA. If you've got a couple guys firing automatic rifles, things are gonna get dead.
It would be cool if the passengers were able to, say, use larger weapons to destroy the rear window and shoot at pursuers.
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