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  21:35:10  16 January 2013
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Bangalore
Robberbaron
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On forum: 02/17/2008
 

Message edited by:
Bangalore
01/16/2013 22:57:03
Messages: 1159

---QUOTATION---
if you have a good pc with lots of rams and 64bit win7. plz dont start to tell me about 32bit apps, we know... but see for yourself. for instance one of our maps is almost 10 km2 big (5x2km), on win xp no matter what you do, xrai will crash when it makes level graphs, on win7 64 it works. however it wont change a fact, its terribly unconvenient to work with big maps.
---END QUOTATION---



Win7 x64 Ultimate + SOC xrAI (by Loxotron?) + 1.5 km x 1.5 km ai map:

with 130 graph points: successful, i get a 7 MB sized level.graph
with 250 graph points: crash, no matter what i do, as the memory using hits ~4-5 GB

My machine isn't strong enough? Dez, how much graph points did you lay to your 10km2 Stancia?
  00:31:40  17 January 2013
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dezodor
level designer
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On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
dezodor
01/17/2013 0:47:09
Messages: 3803
stancia is not our biggest map, thats only 2334m x 1973m (still almost 6k m2) ...stancia's level ai us just 43-44 mb, it passes easily. our biggest map it 5x2km, and has ca 64mb aimap with ca 280 graphs (smaller maps sometimes has more graph points). you dont need to put the graph points so close to each. it all depends on where you plan to add monsters or story related things which needs the offline-online optimising
  19:42:06  17 January 2013
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Bangalore
Robberbaron
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On forum: 02/17/2008
Messages: 1159

---QUOTATION---
stancia is not our biggest map, thats only 2334m x 1973m (still almost 6k m2) ...stancia's level ai us just 43-44 mb, it passes easily. our biggest map it 5x2km, and has ca 64mb aimap with ca 280 graphs (smaller maps sometimes has more graph points). you dont need to put the graph points so close to each. it all depends on where you plan to add monsters or story related things which needs the offline-online optimising
---END QUOTATION---



The ai map of this 1.5 km x 1.5 km test map is 96 MB sized, and i can make only a draft ai map, if i try a full compilation, xrai immediately crashes. Your 5x2 km map (maybe Deadmil) may have the biggest ai map for stalker games with 64 mb size. So it's understandable, why i can't compile a full ai map and graph, i have no chance to make graph for a 96 mb size ai map.
In comparison, CS Marsh ai map is only 12 mb, COP Zaton has a 42 mb sized ai map.
  01:33:28  18 January 2013
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dezodor
level designer
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On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
dezodor
01/18/2013 1:44:19
Messages: 3803
just checked, it has 21mb level.ai, dunno where you saw 90mb, maybe you mixed up something, 90 is unrealistic for 1.5x1.5 sized level. if you decompiled the level, probably some bug occured, you should recalculate aimap, if it will be again that big, then something is wrong with that.

+ most of the new trees werent set to mu object in this old compile (they were left on static type), thats why they flicker in game, and appear at random places as you fly or walk
  19:00:56  18 January 2013
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Bangalore
Robberbaron
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On forum: 02/17/2008
Messages: 1159

---QUOTATION---
just checked, it has 21mb level.ai, dunno where you saw 90mb, maybe you mixed up something, 90 is unrealistic for 1.5x1.5 sized level. if you decompiled the level, probably some bug occured, you should recalculate aimap, if it will be again that big, then something is wrong with that.
---END QUOTATION---



it's not a decompiled map, Borovos uploaded this terrain object:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/32595810/test_terrain.7z
and i generated an ai map with SOC LE, and for the second try i still get a 96 mb sized ai map:
http://i.imgur.com/JMV9P.jpg

i validated the ai map, so dunno, level.ai size seems too much for me too... weird...
  02:54:14  19 January 2013
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dezodor
level designer
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On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
dezodor
01/19/2013 3:02:00
Messages: 3803
i was referring to nc build map, totally missed the one borovos91 linked. hmm, i remember discussing about limits with bac9 back in those days :3

as for that terrain: what did you expect from a plane 1.5x1.5? if there would be decoration on it, it wouldnt have more than 25mb of ai map. place some props on it, dense vegetation, buildings, then add those to aimap snap list, and it wont be that big
  11:57:59  19 January 2013
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Muad'Dib
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On forum: 01/24/2011
 

Message edited by:
Muad'Dib
01/19/2013 12:49:27
Messages: 421
@Dez:

Bangalore would like to make a test to verify that Bac9-fcl said in january 2012:

---QUOTATION---
Before they've introduced quad core support, x64 compiler executables and distributed computing, the compilation of some levels could took up to a WEEK. Nice, eh?

Other downsides are limited AI navigation solution (it needs node gpaph all over the whole level, not just for complicated scenes like CryENGINE AI does), which leads to obvious consequences like 5.000.000 nodes per 2x2km area, which, by turn, leads to inevitable problems with storing and processing such and enormous amount of data by level compilers and engine itself. Long story short, it usually means you can't make the playable area of your level bigger than approximately 1,5x1,5km.
---END QUOTATION---



So, this plane terrain is just to make a test, not to create a level ofc.


About my current work:
I'm creating a "trucks graveyard" level based on the real area.
The scale is around 1:1. The terrain size isn't immense (0.8km x 0.7km), but it contain a very high quantity of objects.

Now, the first half of the level contains around 700 vehicules with a total of 5,000,000 faces and 3,000,000 vertices.
And i didn't add trees, bushes and little element of decor.

For the time being, the draft version run perfectly with soc 1.0006 + superbin. (the aimap is just a 10m x 10m to spawn the actor).

In this way, i would like to know the limit for faces and vertices.
And the max aimap size could help me for another project, a real size Duga Antenna level.

Finally, i have a strange error today.
I'm making a full aimap in my trucks cemetery level. LE crash at the "building collision model" step:
[link]http://uppix.net/6/a/8/4fff8975e2a846ddae6ddf9de485f.png[/link]

I'll clear my snap list and remake it.

EDIT: it's good, i make a aimap part by part and it's running.
  15:43:56  19 January 2013
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dezodor
level designer
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On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
dezodor
01/19/2013 15:50:09
Messages: 3803
i hope bac9 wont mind it, here is one of our talk back in 2011:
http://pastebin.ca/2304556 (article expires in 3weeks)

actually thats still the biggest aimap which can be compiled with soc xrai we know so far. the whole level is around 10km2, but of course not the whole terrain is playable, we had to add fences and stuff to make the end of the map invisible on all sides. so lets say 100-200m per side.

if you make vehicle scrapyard, you might want to add hom object for all vehicles which has no interior to speed up the game, since its almost a flat level with mnimal elevation on the terrain. and also make them "lod" objects, so from higher distance they change to 2d sprite texture. it can be done in sdk le in the object library, just make the obj multiple usage, set shaders (check other lod veh objects as reference), and then in object library click on make lod (low quality is enough). this way you wont have so many static verticles since all cars will belong to mu.

for reference one of our map has 1.5million static verticles, and 4million mu (lod, trees) and xrlc still makes it, but it has sectors-portals and lots of hom obj, to speed it up in game. its highly recommended to use cop sdk and make maps for cop since that xrlc can take even more static verticles, i remember soc xrlc is pretty much "crashy" over 1.2-1.3m static, if you compile on highest settings (pixel per meter value is the best on 6.0, above it is not so visible difference, plus its mainly used on r1, which not many ppl play these days)

for vegetation: you can make lowpoly trees to make an immersion of a forest around the level, then add normal trees to the playable areas, once Bac9 made the very same level you are working on, he also used googlemaps as reference, i will check for screenshots and post them here.

about that crash, if you make aimap, LE might crash, just reload it and try again. the best solution is the same as i posted years ago for building heavy maps in LE. you need to hide almost all objects, fly a bit away from the center, save, reload sdk, open map, build it, and it will work. the same can be made when you make aimap on such big levels. fly a bit away from it, since le only loads the objects and textures which are in your viewport (you can even hide the cars, trees, since you already added them to snap list), this way you can spare a lot of ram, which is needed for such tasks.
  15:56:38  19 January 2013
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Bangalore
Robberbaron
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On forum: 02/17/2008
 

Message edited by:
Bangalore
01/19/2013 15:57:57
Messages: 1159
I made some test, scaled down a little the 1.5 km x 1.5 km plane terrain, and generated some ai maps and graph.

It turned out, that the last ai map for i could make a graph succesfully, was a 1350 m x 1350 m sized, plane shaped, pure ai map with 237 graph points, the level.ai size was 78 mb. The node count in LE was 3.717.000. But this is just a draft ai map, for the full ai map if i try to compile the terrain with xrLC (to get a build.cform), i get this:


* New phase started: Optimizing...
    | Processing...
    | Processing... (0 verts removed)
 
FATAL ERROR
 
[error]Expression    : assertion failed
[error]Function      : CBuild::PreOptimize
[error]File          : D:\xray-svn\xrLC\xrPreOptimize.cpp
[error]Line          : 76
[error]Description   : ix<=HDIM_X && iy<=HDIM_Y && iz<=HDIM_Z
 
stack trace:

0023:7C34F9A2 MSVCR71.dll, setvbuf()



I failed with 1425 m x 1425 m ai map already, with a 86 mb level.ai, the graph generating was too much for xrAI, and it crashed.

For me it seems, that the ai area (ai map pure size) limits are really somewhere near 1.5 km x 1.5 km, as BAC9-FLCL stated, a little below.
  17:04:36  19 January 2013
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dezodor
level designer
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On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
dezodor
01/19/2013 17:04:56
Messages: 3803
if you reduce the amount of graph points, it might still work, in our case i remember the 64mb aimap + 400 graph point didnt work, but 395 graphs still worked during level.graph creation, so the limits are somewhere there. your geometry can be any size, yet you wont be able to fill it with nodes.
 
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