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L.U.R.K.: Overhaul Discussion

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  08:51:11  26 May 2009
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rikiiy
(Novice)
 
On forum: 05/22/2009
Messages: 17
Could you also let the player choose whether he wants to follow to story or play freeplay?

I would most defiantly enjoy a bigger emphasis on free play
  23:02:26  26 May 2009
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Lucan
Sup
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 11/13/2007
 

Message edited by:
Lucan
05/26/2009 23:02:43
Messages: 759
Would it be possible to make an NPC wearing a certain suit have night vision?

I.E: A STALKER npc has a normal STALKER suit on. He gets some more money from a raid he participated in, and buys a STALKER suit with a gasmask with it. He now has nightvision. Crappy, but better then nothing. In this instance, he could see clearly in dark up to, say, 25 meters? If it was blue nightvision in a SEVA suit maybe he could see clearly up to 75 meters.
  07:33:03  27 May 2009
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Audioave10
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 07/19/2008
Messages: 2461
Let me take the "other" side of the fog question. I want to see this game & my enemies - NOT fog. The way the AI works, they would see
me and shoot me right through the fog and I would never see them!
Okay...rant over (at least make it an option if you ever do it). This is
an interesting mod idea. Would also love some freeplay.
  12:32:41  27 May 2009
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Racemate
Loner
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 02/11/2009
 

Message edited by:
Racemate
05/27/2009 12:33:33
Messages: 1254

---QUOTATION---
Let me take the "other" side of the fog question. I want to see this game & my enemies - NOT fog. The way the AI works, they would see
me and shoot me right through the fog and I would never see them!
---END QUOTATION---



The answer to it is there:

https://www.gsc-game.com/index.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr&thm_page=1&thm_id=17473&page=5&sort=ASC&sec_id=16


---QUOTATION---
Could it be possible to implement in this mod severe weather conditions i.e. rainstorm (maybe snowstorm), fog, darkness which would affect NPCs as well as actor? I mean their ability to see, hear and act.
---END QUOTATION---

  15:07:06  27 May 2009
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{imperialreign}
Звуковой Шаман
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/29/2008
Messages: 3075
In regards to the fog . . .

the closest you'll get is more than likely what nandersen has implimented in Dynamic Weather.

For the most part, fog any "thicker" than how it appears with that mod really screws with the visuals. The closer you make the fog, and the denser it is, the engine applies the fog color to everything, which can give a really strange, washed-out appearance - even in "underground" areas.

To the best of my knowledge, there's really no way around this - one can only strike a decent balance with using fog.
  01:48:02  28 May 2009
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Holden
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 05/21/2009
Messages: 232

---QUOTATION---
In regards to the fog . . .

the closest you'll get is more than likely what nandersen has implimented in Dynamic Weather.

For the most part, fog any "thicker" than how it appears with that mod really screws with the visuals. The closer you make the fog, and the denser it is, the engine applies the fog color to everything, which can give a really strange, washed-out appearance - even in "underground" areas.

To the best of my knowledge, there's really no way around this - one can only strike a decent balance with using fog.
---END QUOTATION---



Actually you'll find that the fog is actually used in a method that contradicts what first comes to mind. It's always prevalent, except for maybe at night. It's more like a lighting filter then anything, the density provides how strong the effect is, and the color is self explanatory.

The effect it provides is a more uniform sun lighting finish if used properly, which I've taken advantage of to the best of my abilities, making the saturation a little more rich without having too much color conflicting with what you see. However it's a difficult balance finding the desirable threshold between appealing and realistic.

The weather cycles have been trimmed down significantly in its current state so that I can start fresh with the most appealing configurations, and I'm trying to make each weather cycle aesthetically pleasing and having its own effect on gameplay.

The way GSC implements fog isn't really fog at all. As I stated before it's merely a color filter. It's embarrassing in the sense that this fog saturates every area, and even makes areas that were once dark more visible. Which gives us a conflict.

The AI is programmed to recognize the presence of fog, and have their vision obscured as a result of which, in humorous irony the only possible way to actually have it tangibly obscure your vision is to set the "fog_distance" parameter to a lower degree, however all that does is cut of visibility completely, with absolutely no in between.

With the new AI that L.U.R.K. has created, the fog conflicts with the light visibility parameters, one of the aspects that we've worked so hard to achieve. The actually increased visibility from the fog in dark areas makes the AI work in reverse. They are taught to act with less visibility in these circumstances, even when it is in fact easier to see. So here I am sitting in agropram on a foggy overcast evening inside the agropram building, and the soldiers are just mucking about like morons trying to find me while I'm staring right at them.

I slept in game for about an hour, and I noticed that the dynamic weather scripts shifted to clear, which subsequently lowered the fog. Much to my surprise it was pitch black in the building I was sitting in, and I was in a very similar circumstance that these soldiers were, mucking about in the darkness trying to locate me.

BAC9 was very right when stating "You can't change the world with one .ltx file". There are a seemingly endless amount of factors involved in making realistic detection parameters a reality, and there's still much work to be done refining the base. However I've been forced to truncate some poorly conceived AI parameters until I can fix the objects surrounding them, mainly the sound detection for steps and movement, as well as the fog detection parameters.

Just for laughs and giggles I tried to see if I could set the fog detection parameters to a negative variable, alas, crash to desktop lol. The fog in this game is just laughably bad, and seeing as how fog plays an integral role during all days to achieve a desirable lighting effect, it's beyond the scope of this project to recreate the way the engine renders fog in order to be more functional.

It would seem that Clear Sky improved upon the fog aspect, but it actually has no effect on weather, shame shame. I guess it would be impractical regardless to have something that hardware intensive stretched across the entire landscape. That was probably taken into account considering Stalker at the time was already ridiculously hardware intensive.

Now onto some other questions. A few fellows asked me about freeplay and faction wars, as well as blowouts, those are unfortunately production cuts at this stage in time. If you've been following development since its meager days of a simple mod merger, then you'd know that there was a time when those were included, along with Oblivion Lost in its entirety, however they were dropped in the end.

Ultimately, we want to provide the best possible experience from Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl, we don't plan to skew the scope of this game, because I, like many others, fell in love with the game because of the story, the realistic gameplay, and the atmosphere. I plan to preserve and improve on that concept to the best of my abilities, and our team has vowed to do so as well. Which is why we took it upon ourselves to do this.

I'm unfortunately disappointed in the direction that some mods took. Oblivion Lost always touted itself as "The way it was meant to be", however I felt as though it was quite the opposite. I don't mean to insult this mod by any means, however I feel as though the premise is misleading. Things like boss battles, ridiculous spawns and blowouts taking place every day seemed to contradict the sense of desolation and plot focus the original had. As well as things like 80kg weight limits and various other implementations. The game certainly makes Stalker appeal to an audience that was otherwise unsatisfied, however I don't really feel as though they were Stalker fans, so much as they were Oblivion Lost fans.

I want to change that by fulfilling a niche that's otherwise unfulfilled in the modding community. I want to bring as many features to Stalker without damaging or changing the original theme of the game. Every single weapon has undergone a complete overhaul, using real weapon scaling as a staple for balance, taking into account every function of a weapon in order to determine damage and effectiveness as depicted by this sheet, all credit goes to my fellow L.U.R.K. developer Giegue:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MO7EV0HY

Of course needless to say all weapons loadouts for NPC's have been completely overhauled to take into account these changes. Which is why no NPC hasn't been touched by our filthy hands. Of course while implementing these features we've dedicated our time to completely new features, such as major things like AI overhaul, graphical overhauls with Clear Sky content, complete rebalancing, to little things like new menus, and notably the only custom menu that's animated:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YT97E5EJ


It would seem that not enough information has been provided in the Original Post, so I'll make it clear just how far this project has gone, and how much it entails. We're here to provide the definitive Stalker experience, no more, no less.

Of course we're open to suggestions as stated before, but first you need to understand the concepts of what we're trying to achieve before you give suggestions. We want to follow these basic design philosophies before anything is added.

Here's an early work in progress for our full promotional video, which will entail the entire 8:50 minutes. Tell me what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps8AlQ9hi7w

Also, I'd appreciate it if parts of this post were edited into the main post so as to prevent confusion.
  02:15:52  28 May 2009
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dezodor
level designer
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 3803

---QUOTATION---

I'm unfortunately disappointed in the direction that some mods took. Oblivion Lost always touted itself as "The way it was meant to be", however I felt as though it was quite the opposite. I don't mean to insult this mod by any means, however I feel as though the premise is misleading.

---END QUOTATION---



Definitely agree with this. The only thing which was nice choice, is the title itself, which mislead many new players, who saw -proper- old "oblivion lost" videos on youtube, or any other video hosting site, and then they saw a mod, which was called the same... I always disliked the "the way it was meant to be" because it had nothing to do with the real old oblivion, this one would suit better "the way we -the authors- always wanted to see stalker"
  02:17:05  28 May 2009
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Florence
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 07/19/2007
Messages: 1197
Wow. This certainly is getting very interesting. I can't wait to see the new stealth, as well as the other new features.
  03:23:25  28 May 2009
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{imperialreign}
Звуковой Шаман
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/29/2008
Messages: 3075

---QUOTATION---
I'm unfortunately disappointed in the direction that some mods took. Oblivion Lost always touted itself as "The way it was meant to be", however I felt as though it was quite the opposite. I don't mean to insult this mod by any means, however I feel as though the premise is misleading. Things like boss battles, ridiculous spawns and blowouts taking place every day seemed to contradict the sense of desolation and plot focus the original had. As well as things like 80kg weight limits and various other implementations. The game certainly makes Stalker appeal to an audience that was otherwise unsatisfied, however I don't really feel as though they were Stalker fans, so much as they were Oblivion Lost fans.
---END QUOTATION---




As well, I agree with this statement . . .

so far, my work has been aimed at improving one aspect that I found to be seriously lacking - it never ceases to amaze me how game developers seem to almost always overlook the ambient audio, which is a major, major aspect of creating immersion and realism . . . sure, a game's atmoshpere and "tone" are highly dependant upon the visual aspect - but, the audio adds that final coat of polish to a finished product. In regards to AAO, my primary goal was to address SoC's ambient audio and "start from scratch," in an attempt to enhance the environment and enrichen the atmosphere - it's been a lot of hard work, but I'd like to think that I was able to accomplish my goals . . . at least, based upon what feedback I've recieved from other users.

In regards to other large mods - I don't really look at OL as anything more than a "spin-off" of AMK . . . which, in itself (and by itself) is a work of art . . . much like Priboi Story, and (I'm sure), Lost Alpha will be.

I currently have plans for undertaking such a mod myself, and in many ways I've started upon it, redesigning what we know of the zone - with a new storyline, a new twist, and a "fresh" interpretation of SoC . . . sadly, though, the project might be more ambitious than I had initially planned, and, unless I can find some other modders willing to help out - as such a mod is nearly impossible for one user - "Frozen Sky" might never be ready.
  04:22:12  28 May 2009
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Anaphiel
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/17/2009
Messages: 23
Holden, the more detailed posts like this I read the more keenly I anticipate this mod. It sounds like you've addressed most of my key concerns with any new mega-mod, especially the desire to preserve the core Stalker atmosphere and gameplay experience, and the new stealth features will be a nice complement to that experience if everything works as intended.

Thanks for the spreadsheet as well... I'm building something similar to aid in balancing out the Arsenal weapons - or at least getting them to the point where I'm not just choosing a gun by weight or looks - and your spreadsheet is interesting to look through in that light.

Nice to see you seem to have chosen a logical mix of weapons for L.U.R.K. as well... I always wondered what sort of backstory would be needed to explain a Ukrainian digger carrying a WWII-surplus Arisaka.
 
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