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L.U.R.K.: Overhaul Discussion

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  15:43:14  21 May 2009
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Danlo
The Lazy Writer
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/21/2008
Messages: 5198
its looks really cool, nice polished and I'm hoping nice to play.

main question: is it ready for download yet?
  15:50:53  21 May 2009
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BAC9-FLCL
Senior Moderator
 

 
On forum: 04/10/2007
 

Message edited by:
BAC9-FLCL
05/21/2009 16:01:17
Messages: 8995

---QUOTATION---
I'm not sure if you've watched the video I posted, but I can assure you that the AI is functioning better then ever, if you need more proof then just say the word. Stealth is fully functional, and I've done my best to improve every aspect of both daytime and nighttime aspects of battle. Flanking is now a battle characteristic that's possible, and the knife is now useful. You can L.U.R.K. in the dark.
---END QUOTATION---


We watched, and it looks good. And, I recommend you to try the same thing at the daytime. AI will act in with the same blindness as at night

Dezodor tried, Kanyhalos tried, everybody tried - m_stalker.ltx-based fixes didn't add any normal stealth gameplay to the game. The only thing which is useful there is proper NPC FOV and detection distance settings, which you tuned pretty good, as I see from the video.

Anyway, normal stealth is a matter of engine-based AI schemes (proper stealth requires access to level geometry for AI visibilty checks, so it's not even possible to make it with schemes fully based on Lua). To say short - it's not possible to implement the stealth to the game. Yep, it's possible to lower detection settings for knife to be more useful. Yes, it's possible to tune FOV, etc. But the shadow detection, proper geometry affection etc. are the features which aren't possible to implement with modding - only GSC can do that.

P.S.: Call of Pripyat has the improvements in this part - as I saw, level geometry at last affects NPC targeting and combat behavior, they don't see you through the walls.

P.P.S.: Sorry for being offtopic a bit.

P.P.P.S.: And, people - maybe it'll be better not to turn the thread into the "pros and cons of mod compilations" discussion, author doesn't have a blame to deserve that
  17:22:34  21 May 2009
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Gallonigher
(Senior)
 
On forum: 07/24/2008
Messages: 125
Don't listen to these ungrateful sods

This made my day when I stumbled in here, especially when I saw the stunning screenshots!

I think it's great that you're trying to combine mods that are not so easily combined. Kudos to you for that alone.

Assuming you are actually correct about stealth working the way it's supposed to, I think congratulations are in order!


However, I do have a few niggling doubts.

On some mods, I have encountered considerable stuttering when passing through heavily populated areas where the variety of guns and NPC inventories have been significantly increased. I hope L.U.R.K. will not fall prey to the same problem.

Will you be incorporating any freeplay elements for those of us who don't want to play through the story for the umpteenth time? Indeed, I don't see any need for a new main plot, I tend to think of survival in the zone as a compelling enough story in its own right.

Are you hoping to release this before Call of Pripyat or are you not bothered?

Either way, I will definitely check it out when the download option finally presents itself.
  17:54:15  21 May 2009
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Kaine
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/05/2007
Messages: 354
I look at mod compilations as just saving me a hell of a lot of work.

Also keen as mustard to see what a /k/ inspired weapon setup will be like.

Please make sure the delayed/gradual application medpack mod is in there. Not sure I could play STALKER with insta-health-packs again.
  18:17:29  21 May 2009
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{imperialreign}
Звуковой Шаман
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/29/2008
Messages: 3075
another thought on stealth . . . the m_stalker.ltx settings only adjust the "base" perception values . . .

but, the majority of "stealth" is found in the audio file comments - it don't make a shit of difference what settings you configure in the .ltx, when NPC MAX_DIST is set to 150 with a volume setting of 1.75.

If you want, I've adjusted the comments on Darius6's weapon sounds in SO1.7, they make a ton of difference . . . I'm willing to upload them, while we're waiting on Sound Overhaul 2.0 to finish up. Also, many of the sound effects in my SoundEFX mod are also properly configured, you're free to use them as you wish.

Between proper audio comments, and a good config balance in m_stalker, stealth can be made a lot easier and more realistic. One can still be stealthy in vanilla SoC . . . but it is VERY difficult.
  21:00:20  21 May 2009
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AgentJR
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 107

---QUOTATION---
We watched, and it looks good. And, I recommend you to try the same thing at the daytime. AI will act in with the same blindness as at night

Dezodor tried, Kanyhalos tried, everybody tried - m_stalker.ltx-based fixes didn't add any normal stealth gameplay to the game. The only thing which is useful there is proper NPC FOV and detection distance settings, which you tuned pretty good, as I see from the video.
---END QUOTATION---



I get a very strong feeling that you've neglected to read the changes, one of which is "including dynamic light visibility parameters"

I can understand the hesitance to fully accept that someone has managed to implement stealth gameplay in STALKER, when previous attempts haven't been the most successful. But to just shoot down someone's work before it's even released... It's rude, to say the least.
  21:33:34  21 May 2009
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dezodor
level designer
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 3803
while the guys were talking about some ltx editing stuff, we talked about the engine itself. you cant "change the world" with 1 ltx, its not as simple, while that ltx might look complicated aswelll. but as barin stated above, you can make the npc-s "dumb" with those settings, they will still see you, and that WILL have consequences in other game aspects too.

replying to the video, the first bug which made me and maybe others post was: when he stand behind the bandits, and killed them, other npcs didnt react, and when he was shooting a bandit, and others didnt care. its not okay, you might play with values, but sooner-or-later you will realize, what we tried to say (just to help and spare you a lot of time).
  21:57:29  21 May 2009
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barin
scripter
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 09/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
barin
05/21/2009 21:58:26
Messages: 702

---QUOTATION---
I can understand the hesitance to fully accept that someone has managed to implement stealth gameplay in STALKER, when previous attempts haven't been the most successful. But to just shoot down someone's work before it's even released... It's rude, to say the least.
---END QUOTATION---



Don't even go there, noone here is "shooting down someone's work before it's even released". This is a discussion thread so we talk about things. Stealth in Stalker is not possible by editing ltx, scripts and even ogg files. You simply can't do that right because like i said before, npcs won't react properly, but it's up to you to fiqure it out.


---QUOTATION---
I certainly don't intend on making a new storyline. Shadow of Chernobyl has a great plot, and I don't intend to ruin that, or try to create a suitable main plot. However I suppose if you want that you could play your own mod Priboi Story .
---END QUOTATION---



I see what you did there ... Indeed vanilla storyline is very interesting but not if you play it over and over again. And that is why we need new storyline mods. I just can't stand that you people can't see it, or maybe you don't want to or just don't care? This community is stagnating, it stopped in one place and won't move forward. Take a look around, most soc mods, especially nowadays, are just slightly modified merged mods. In addition, cs mods are porting things from soc mods. It's just sad ... :\

As a coauthor of Priboi Story I spent enough time (almost 2 years) on it, it's just boring for me as well as vanilla game is.
  22:07:04  21 May 2009
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Gnomus
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 10/21/2007
 

Message edited by:
Don Reba
05/21/2009 22:52:16
Messages: 427
I'm looking forward to trying it out. And I have gone through STALKER more times than I'd care to admit. It looks like a very good combonation of some of the best mods and things STALKER.

Has a version of this been released yet?
  22:26:49  21 May 2009
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youzuki
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/16/2008
Messages: 115

---QUOTATION---
I just can't stand that you people can't see it, or maybe you don't want to or just don't care? This community is stagnating, it stopped in one place and won't move forward. Take a look around, most soc mods, especially nowadays, are just slightly modified merged mods. In addition, cs mods are porting things from soc mods. It's just sad ... :\

---END QUOTATION---



Agreed. But there is nothing you can do. As you see people already ignoring your post, and trying to flood the topic to hide it.

People don't need new story, they are already happy if they can save Nimble with a different weapon, or if Nimble has new skin. That's how it goes, if you can't get used to it, you will burn-out soon
 
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