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L.U.R.K.: Overhaul Discussion

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  07:30:08  21 May 2009
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Psycho Sonic
(Novice)
 
On forum: 05/21/2009
Messages: 10

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I'd recommend you to concentrate on really new feature, maybe small, but new, bringing fresh experience and variety to gameplay.
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HMMM, I WONDER WHAT THE STEALTH SYSTEM IS THAT ENTIRELY CHANGES COMBAT IN THE GAME.

Seriously, people think it's WAY too cool to be cynical these days. Just read the post, read what's added, don't make presumptions, and wait till it's out.
  07:36:40  21 May 2009
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Holden
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 05/21/2009
 

Message edited by:
Holden
05/21/2009 7:38:34
Messages: 232

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What a gloomy outlook! People are doing original things, too: ZRP, Ambient Audio Overhaul, Nanderson's mods, etc.
No-no, I'm just speaking about talented people who developed this mod. I appreciate your work, it's really good, but... don't you think that any additional features mainly seen in other mods are pointless and can't give any fresh experience until the main game part is exactly the same and you need to kill bandits on ATP for 1000th time?

You did a good work on the mod, but I think it's really interesting only for those who didn't played the game too much. Well-made feature list isn't the way to bring new experience to the game.

For example, if you mod would have added the new quest line, or introduced weapon upgrade system, or extended the dialog possibilities with NPC, etc. - I'd have already downloaded it and played with interest But what I currently see there is what I mostly already saw.

I'd recommend you to concentrate on really new feature, maybe small, but new, bringing fresh experience and variety to gameplay. You'll see, it'll affect your mod popularity in a good way
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I appreciate your suggestions, and while I don't want to sound rude, I would suggest that you read through the post in its entirety as a prerequisite for suggestions. It would be impossible for you to have downloaded it and played it seeing as how it's not released yet.

I can assure you that it's a fresh experience, however I'll look into custom scripting new missions and dialogues for newer releases.

Once again I'd like to emphasize that there are certainly new features implemented by this mod, however it might be hard to identify from that list seeing as how it's rather convoluted in nature, which is a good thing in my opinion, given the amount of meticulous balancing.

This video represents the new AI structure, I hope this will suit your desire for ingenuity:
http://www.xfire.com/video/bcd6a/

There are many more unique features to boot, although custom missions aren't one of them at this point, I'll certainly look into that.

I'm surprised I didn't credit you correctly BAC9 - FLCL, I was a fan of that particular anime myself.
  07:40:48  21 May 2009
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Holden
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 05/21/2009
Messages: 232

---QUOTATION---

I'd recommend you to concentrate on really new feature, maybe small, but new, bringing fresh experience and variety to gameplay.

HMMM, I WONDER WHAT THE STEALTH SYSTEM IS THAT ENTIRELY CHANGES COMBAT IN THE GAME.

Seriously, people think it's WAY too cool to be cynical these days. Just read the post, read what's added, don't make presumptions, and wait till it's out.
---END QUOTATION---



Please lets not be rude, I can understand why it would be difficult to see what's new under the mass of features from other modders.

Rest assured what hasn't been added by us, has been thoroughly tweaked by us.
  08:09:06  21 May 2009
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barin
scripter
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 09/12/2007
Messages: 702

---QUOTATION---
Please lets not be rude, I can understand why it would be difficult to see what's new under the mass of features from other modders.
Rest assured what hasn't been added by us, has been thoroughly tweaked by us.
---END QUOTATION---



Nah, noone is rude here, I believe this is a discussion thread so you want to hear from people what would they like to see in your mod, right?
I for instance, I would really like to see something new, something unique. While there's nothing wrong in merging things, it's just boring, like BAC9-FLCL stated. This game has really great potential in what you can change and adjust. I realize that it's annoying to edit ltx files, for instance weapons, not to mention about testing, seriously i admire your patience. But have you thought about new storyline maybe? It doesn't have to be literally a "new game" but new plot with interesting tasks and new alife would add a fresh experience to gameplay, imho.


---QUOTATION---
HMMM, I WONDER WHAT THE STEALTH SYSTEM IS THAT ENTIRELY CHANGES COMBAT IN THE GAME.
---END QUOTATION---



I'm afraid it's not possible to implement a stealth system in Stalker. It just won't work because npcs always see you, you can only make the npcs dumb by adjusting ltx settings, eventually a script, but it won't work anyway. Sonner or later you will notice strange npc behaviour, they will attack you from greater distance or they won't care about you at all, in some cases npcs will "feel" danger even if there isn't any.
  08:32:14  21 May 2009
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Holden
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 05/21/2009
Messages: 232

---QUOTATION---
Please lets not be rude, I can understand why it would be difficult to see what's new under the mass of features from other modders.
Rest assured what hasn't been added by us, has been thoroughly tweaked by us.

Nah, noone is rude here, I believe this is a discussion thread so you want to hear from people what would they like to see in your mod, right?
I for instance, I would really like to see something new, something unique. While there's nothing wrong in merging things, it's just boring, like BAC9-FLCL stated. This game has really great potential in what you can change and adjust. I realize that it's annoying to edit ltx files, for instance weapons, not to mention about testing, seriously i admire your patience. But have you thought about new storyline maybe? It doesn't have to be literally a "new game" but new plot with interesting tasks and new alife would add a fresh experience to gameplay, imho.

I'm afraid it's not possible to implement a stealth system in Stalker. It just won't work because npcs always see you, you can only make the npcs dumb by adjusting ltx settings, eventually a script, but it won't work anyway. Sonner or later you will notice strange npc behaviour, they will attack you from greater distance or they won't care about you at all, in some cases npcs will "feel" danger even if there isn't any.
---END QUOTATION---



I certainly don't intend on making a new storyline. Shadow of Chernobyl has a great plot, and I don't intend to ruin that, or try to create a suitable main plot. However I suppose if you want that you could play your own mod Priboi Story .

I'm not sure if you've watched the video I posted, but I can assure you that the AI is functioning better then ever, if you need more proof then just say the word. Stealth is fully functional, and I've done my best to improve every aspect of both daytime and nighttime aspects of battle. Flanking is now a battle characteristic that's possible, and the knife is now useful. You can L.U.R.K. in the dark.
  09:12:10  21 May 2009
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notanumber
mod abuser & exploiter
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/22/2008
 

Message edited by:
notanumber
05/21/2009 9:15:18
Messages: 2822
Wow! You managed to merge Panoramic Mod with SWO textures and Clear Sky dynamic weather?

These pictures look VERY good, almost too god to be true

EDIT: yeah, the storyline in SoC is OK but I think that everybody is just so used to it now that at least some small changes would be welcome. E.g. adding one or more tasks in the storyline and maybe use some of the cut out dialogs and tasks (e.g. for the Snitch/Wolfhound relation and Lucky's PDA).
  10:58:09  21 May 2009
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trojanuch
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
trojanuch
05/21/2009 10:59:48
Messages: 1444
Screenshots indeed look good

I have a question however:
SWO and Panoramic has somewhat dofferent philosophy in approach to sky textures - SWO uses rotating textures with enhanced fog while Panoramic uses non-rotating textures with fog disabled in favor of 'distant-landscape view'.
How have you managed to create a single and coherent system out of those two?
Have you disabled the sky rotation entirely in SWO? Or have you edited Argus sky textures and took out the distant landscape and put 'normal' fog stripe in it's place?

Textures with distant landscape drawn on them (all of them from Panoramic Mod) cannot rotate - cause it will also make the landscape drawn on them to rotate with them.
On the other hand disabling rotation in SWO is very diffcult as sky rotation is one of the foundatons the mod is build on and it is perfectly synchronized with sunflare movement (so that sun is always in exacly perfect, most-fitting place on every sky texture displayed).

So I really wonder - how have you managed to pull this of?
  11:28:16  21 May 2009
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Holden
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 05/21/2009
 

Message edited by:
Holden
05/21/2009 11:30:56
Messages: 232

---QUOTATION---
Screenshots indeed look good

I have a question however:
SWO and Panoramic has somewhat dofferent philosophy in approach to sky textures - SWO uses rotating textures with enhanced fog while Panoramic uses non-rotating textures with fog disabled in favor of 'distant-landscape view'.
How have you managed to create a single and coherent system out of those two?
Have you disabled the sky rotation entirely in SWO? Or have you edited Argus sky textures and took out the distant landscape and put 'normal' fog stripe in it's place?

Textures with distant landscape drawn on them (all of them from Panoramic Mod) cannot rotate - cause it will also make the landscape drawn on them to rotate with them.
On the other hand disabling rotation in SWO is very diffcult as sky rotation is one of the foundatons the mod is build on and it is perfectly synchronized with sunflare movement (so that sun is always in exacly perfect, most-fitting place on every sky texture displayed).

So I really wonder - how have you managed to pull this of?
---END QUOTATION---



That's one of the main issues I'm having. I've kept the Panoramic textures for the clear, unclouded days, and I've substituted in animated skybox textures for the default rainy configurations. The dark cloudy configurations have been completely substituted by light cloudy, simply because while it's realistic to have dark cloudy weather, it's unfavorable visually in my opinion, due to the lack of shadow contrast.

While the clouds on a peaceful clear day would still have minor cloud movement, it's not noticeable enough for somebody to say "HEY WTF THEM CLOUDS SHOULD BE MOVIN". The distant landscape textures accent the environment nicely, however the default animated skyboxes suit the rainy and stormy nights better, giving a sense of intensity from the high wind speeds and general displacement from a rain storm. That's the compromise.

I'm still working on creating more diverse weather, and fully utilizing your magnificent weather transition script, however for the time being the currently crafted weather configurations suit a more stylized visually appealing look. However there aren't enough of them for me to call myself satisfied, right now it's alternating between three config bases, However I plan to add more along the way. The weather is still very beta.

Trojanuch I wouldn't mean to offend by modifying your excellent weather modification, however the end product I desire is more stylized rather then realistic.
  12:34:39  21 May 2009
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trojanuch
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
 

Message edited by:
trojanuch
05/21/2009 12:36:15
Messages: 1444
Thx for the fast reply

However I think you confused two things:

- 'moving clouds' texture is not really a skybox - a moving cloud layer is just a 'flat' alpha-channeled texture (I use my custom modified sky_oblaka_cs_darker.dds texture for this) that is governed by 'clouds =' param and it's 5 values (with the purpose of 5th stil remaining the mystery).

- what I meant when I was asking about sky rotation - was how have you solved the differences between sky_rotation param in different weather phases?
If sky_rotation value is different in one phase than in the other and weather is transitioning between those two phases (regardles of wether it is still in the same cycle or it is switching between cycles) - the main skybox begins to rotate from one setting to the other.
The speed of rotation is depended on how big the gap between the values is and how long are the phases.

In Panoramic all sky_rotation values are the same (0 i think) - so skyboxes never rotate (to keep landscape view drawn on them in one place). SWOv3 however utilizes sky rotation very much - it's one of the principles of how the whole moving sun flares system is implemented.

So for me it always seemded that combining SWO with Panoramic would be like combining fire with water

That's why I wonder how have you managed to pull it off. And am looking forward to see the final effect

Oh - and at this stage of SHOC modding (when there is hardly anyone still interested) - I think all our mods should be considered 'open' and free to be used by onyone in anything - so I think you should stop worrying about offending anyone (at least that's what I think)
  14:59:36  21 May 2009
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{imperialreign}
Звуковой Шаман
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/29/2008
Messages: 3075
I have to say, the mod pack looks nice . . . I'll have to check it out once I have some free time away from my projects.

Anyhow, I don't think anyone here means to come across as disrespectful or down-talking the mod pack or the work that goes into it (truthfully, the really good mod packs require a lot of careful work merging everything together) . . . it's just that for most of us, all the mod packs appear similar to each other . . . I guess it's simply most of us just being a bit jaded from seeing the same projects over and over again . . . so, try not to take anyone's criticisms the wrong way, we're just bitter old stalkers

Best of luck with this comp, and keep in mind that even though most of us here can be cynical at times, we're still willing to help should you run into any headaches or speed bumps
 
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