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Request about help(NPC's shooting in the sky)

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  13:02:37  27 September 2013
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Vandrerer
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/03/2011
 

Message edited by:
Vandrerer
09/27/2013 13:19:55
Messages: 7
Request about help(NPC's shooting in the sky)

Hello dear Stalkers,

I have very strange issue which I can't solve. I have no any idea why it's happening. Few NPC's like one model of military guy/freedom or duty can't aim correctly directly in me but they aiming about one meter above my head. They have only a one good shot then they shooting above my head.

-I have no any AI modification- just vanilla AI
-I have some new NPC's models but without new models problem is still present.
-I have some new weapons models and configs.
-I have changed Gameplay files(assigned weapon for NPC's)

I have no any idea since half year how to solve it and you are my last hope. Where can I looking for the source of this problem?

Thank you so much for all replies and clues,
V.

PS: I found this topic https://www.gsc-game.com/index.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr2&thm_page=1&thm_id=19405&sec_id=22&offset=-180 where someone has written:


---QUOTATION---
^ Correct. The AI can't compensate for recoil so if you remove the reset parameters, only the first shot fired by AI will be accurate, with each subsequent shot being progressively less accurate as the weapon fails to return to its initial vert/horz position.

Watching the AI hopelessly shoot the sky while threatening to kill you is only funny once.
---END QUOTATION---



and then:


---QUOTATION---
@Vandal----Thanks.Everything you said makes sense.A way to reduce recoil while sighted....seems like they were thinking realism with that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
disp_base = 2.5
disp_aim = 0.00
disp_vel_factor = 3.0
disp_accel_factor = -0.0
disp_crouch_factor = -0.0
disp_jump_factor = 3.5

Using this now with just a tiny dot.Gives a good feel as you can point the dot at enemy and the gun sprays in direction and crouching doesnt improve grouping so you dont get the "point dot super aim" cheat.....good for up close action.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As Catsy pointed out...probably better off not messing with recoil return to center since it offs the AI
---END QUOTATION---



I set vanilla values to all DISP options but it doesn't help.
  02:16:09  28 September 2013
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Storm Shadow
A machine, a Shadow Machine.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 11/14/2007
 

Message edited by:
Storm Shadow
09/28/2013 2:44:11
Messages: 1430
Hi,

have you changed the cam_relax_speed in your weapon configs? if so, then add in another line below it called cam_relax_speed_ai and set this to the vanilla value.

for example, in my mod the w_ak_74u.ltx file looks like this:
cam_relax_speed         		= 0
cam_relax_speed_ai         		= 120



This may not fully solve all your problems, but it should be a good start. Hope it helps.

Shadow


EDIT: a quick forum search for cam_relax_speed_ai reveals a few more handy infos:
STALKER AI Recoil Problem
https://www.gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr&thm_id=19619&sec_id=16&page=1

NPCs Not Compensating For Recoil - Halp
https://www.gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr&thm_id=18902&sec_id=16&page=1

Regulating NPC Recoil Control
https://www.gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr&thm_id=18437&sec_id=16&page=1
  17:19:00  28 September 2013
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Vandrerer
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/03/2011
Messages: 7
Unfortunately I set both values as you wrote but issue is still present.
  02:37:06  29 September 2013
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Storm Shadow
A machine, a Shadow Machine.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 11/14/2007
 

Message edited by:
Storm Shadow
09/29/2013 10:41:23
Messages: 1430

---QUOTATION---
Unfortunately I set both values as you wrote but issue is still present.
---END QUOTATION---



um, yeah, that's why I posted those other threads for your reference. the answers are all in there my friend.
  09:47:03  29 September 2013
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ZaGaR
Skaarj Hybrid - NaPali survivor
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/24/2007
Messages: 647
Is it possible to change the AI aiming point to body midsection, or it is engine coded? That would look weird but compensate a lot for the uncontrollable recoil from AI.
  10:42:34  29 September 2013
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Storm Shadow
A machine, a Shadow Machine.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 11/14/2007
Messages: 1430

---QUOTATION---
Is it possible to change the AI aiming point to body midsection, or it is engine coded? That would look weird but compensate a lot for the uncontrollable recoil from AI.
---END QUOTATION---


Recoil is controllable.
  10:46:21  29 September 2013
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Vandrerer
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/03/2011
Messages: 7
What about if I put vanilla weapon(meshes), config(for example Abakan) and Military guy with Abakan still can't aim correctly? It's weird.
  18:17:27  29 September 2013
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ZaGaR
Skaarj Hybrid - NaPali survivor
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/24/2007
Messages: 647
Shadow bro, I believe it is a game BUG at close range or point blank, and I want to stress it, particularly at point blank. I see all the time on all kind of mods how it is impossible for AI to shoot accurately at my face. I challenge anyone who can find an existing ShoC setting where AI can hit me firing less rounds a palm from my nose than from a certain distance. I have yet to play one.

Similarly, watch situations of two NPCs locked in combat at arm-length distance; a total waste of ammo until one kneels, or moves a bit back. It means it is engine related. It is clearly visible how the AI's weapon muzzle climbs to the sky, UNLESS we set artificially a very short fire queue even for point blank.

The more "realistic" are the weapon settings, more useless is AI effort at close range. The different values of cam_relax_speed_ai = will do no good whatsoever when AI keeps the finger on the trigger.


@vanderer. There are some tricks that soften a bit this problem, but would make the weapons too easy and precise for your own use.

1- BE SURE that weapons.ltx has this value
hit_probability_max_dist	= 10

changed to 100, or more. Do this first, before proceeding to other changes.

2- Read all the threads that Storm_Shadow pointed out to get familiar with recoil params. Start cutting at half, or even a third the following set of parameters :
fire_dispersion_base= 		
cam_dispersion          				
cam_dispersion_inc					
cam_dispertion_frac					
cam_max_angle					    	
cam_max_angle_horz					
cam_step_angle_horz	

Absolutely add that line about AI relax speed Storm_Shadow posted above. Do the procedure for every gun you feel needs it.

3- Modify stalkers fire queue parameters as he explains here:
https://gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr&thm_page=1&thm_id=21708&sec_id=16

A lot of mods have bad weapons holding position by default, NPCs pointing skywards even when not firing. Do your tests with plain vanilla settings of the NPCs and weapons, then gradually change models to see if they cause or enhance the problem.
  18:45:56  29 September 2013
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Vandrerer
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/03/2011
 

Message edited by:
Vandrerer
09/29/2013 18:46:39
Messages: 7
Before all the changes can you tell me is it normal, that normal military guy with AK74 doesn't have any problems with aim but specnaz with AK74 can't hit me? Is this problem shouldn't be for example in one weapon but for ALL kind of NPC's?
  21:11:52  29 September 2013
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ZaGaR
Skaarj Hybrid - NaPali survivor
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/24/2007
Messages: 647
Vanderer, before we go more into this, you must report your testing conditions. something is not right here. The soldier and the spetsnaz AI have identical shooting parameters defined by m_stalker.ltx, so they aren't the problem.

A big difference comes if AI is standing, walking, crouching, shooting from hip or zooming. Make sure to tell exactly how you're doing this thing.
  08:59:54  30 September 2013
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Storm Shadow
A machine, a Shadow Machine.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 11/14/2007
Messages: 1430

---QUOTATION---
Before all the changes can you tell me is it normal, that normal military guy with AK74 doesn't have any problems with aim but specnaz with AK74 can't hit me? Is this problem shouldn't be for example in one weapon but for ALL kind of NPC's?
---END QUOTATION---


NPC's individual accuracy comes from their rank. Which is set in their individual character_desc_xxx.xml files (noting any change here required a new game start to take effect).

Zag my bro, I've been testing this in Reb with an Ultima Shield, and even at point blank, and even with my high fire queue (7 - 20 rounds at close range), I have no problem with weapon climb. I would be interested for you to repeat this test, if you get problems when I don't in the same mod, it could be CPU* related...

I have hit_probability_max_distance = 90, and I even have large cam_max_angles.

Shad

PS - I seen your post in our other forum, not ignoring you, I agree in large parts and this raises some grater issues I've been meaning to start a separate thread on, shortly.

*I'm currently using a Core i7 mobile.
  14:59:12  30 September 2013
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Vandrerer
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/03/2011
Messages: 7

---QUOTATION---

NPC's individual accuracy comes from their rank. Which is set in their individual character_desc_xxx.xml


---END QUOTATION---



I have modified gameplay files. Mp_ranks file too. I remember that once upon a time I have deleted all config/Gameplay files and specnaz and others didn't have any problems with aiming.
  06:57:21  1 October 2013
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te47
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/03/2010
 

Message edited by:
te47
10/01/2013 7:10:46
Messages: 415
Try setting every weapon's "cam_relax_speed_ai" value to "360" instead of the vanilla values. That's what I did for my mod, and the issue vanished completely. That'll basically get them compensating so fast for each shot's recoil that even weapons with insanely high recoil will never get out of control.
  19:37:03  2 October 2013
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Vandrerer
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/03/2011
Messages: 7
Finally I have found the source of the problem. It was character_desc_simulation.xml file in Config/Gameplay when I had modified weaponry for NPC's. After deleting this file and "re-weaponing" everything is OK but I added cam_relax_ai=360 to each weapon's config. Just in case...Thank you so much for your help, guys!
  21:44:00  2 October 2013
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ZaGaR
Skaarj Hybrid - NaPali survivor
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/24/2007
Messages: 647
Well, I have a problem with that. Why the hell should character_desc_xxx.ltx affect AI behaviour?? They simply get different weapons, but nothing there tells them how to use them.
  23:56:30  3 October 2013
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Hammru
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/13/2010
 

Message edited by:
Hammru
10/03/2013 23:57:36
Messages: 10
Sky-shooting can't be fixed by the cam relax speed. You gotta play with cam_dispersion_inc. High inc values are incompatible with full auto weapons.


Shameless self-promotion: I have a tutorial on this forum which teaches better recoil.

https://www.gsc-game.com/index.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr&thm_page=3&thm_id=22116&sec_id=16
 
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