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  19:25:00  23 August 2012
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BAC9-FLCL
Senior Moderator
 

 
On forum: 04/10/2007
 

Message edited by:
BAC9-FLCL
08/23/2012 19:26:51
Messages: 8995
Wow, yeah, these bricks are completely out of proportions. And actually, the problem is even larger: all destruction on brick architecture in the game was based on and referenced from old textures. So if you change the number of rows, you are breaking every single hole, every single collapsed wall, and every single brick laying in debris. Shape no longer follows seams.

So, basically, if you want to keep proper look without having to edit the texture mapping all over the game, you should basically draw new brick textures on top of the old ones. Paste individual bricks or groups of bricks from sources of your choice, resize them to fit to a proper grid, edit them, etc., but never use just a simple stock texture unless you're making that texture to create new models yourself.

P.S.: Also, I'm not sure if even that "old" mossy brick texture was used in SoC objects. Isn't that from CoP? In that case, brick positions on it will be wrong too.
  20:36:58  24 August 2012
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LoNer1
Настоящий Cталкер, Русская Версия
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On forum: 10/23/2009
Messages: 1890

---QUOTATION---
Wow, yeah, these bricks are completely out of proportions. And actually, the problem is even larger: all destruction on brick architecture in the game was based on and referenced from old textures. So if you change the number of rows, you are breaking every single hole, every single collapsed wall, and every single brick laying in debris. Shape no longer follows seams.
---END QUOTATION---



Yeah, i was thinking the same thing It will result in one hell of a lot more time texturing it, but I did the same for the mossy brick texture so I think ill get a nice workaround for it eventually


---QUOTATION---
P.S.: Also, I'm not sure if even that "old" mossy brick texture was used in SoC objects. Isn't that from CoP? In that case, brick positions on it will be wrong too.
---END QUOTATION---



No, it's totally from shoc It's used in many locations as well, and IIRC only on flat surfaces. And as i followed the stream of the old texture by sizing it up to 1k, and just copy paste other higher res. brick textures in it, I kept the tileability. I just remade it in higher res Something i want to do for all textures

Look: http://www.moddb.com/mods/photo-realistic-zone-2/images/the-texture-ingame

--

Decided to stick with the normal brick texture, but I borrowed Cromm/SC2009's bump maps

http://www.moddb.com/mods/photo-realistic-zone-2/images/new-brick
  02:55:54  26 August 2012
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LoNer1
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On forum: 10/23/2009
Messages: 1890
Please look at these newest shots!

I put a lot of work in my textures lately:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/photo-realistic-zone-2/images/new-brick

BAC, following your lead:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/photo-realistic-zone-2/images/upclose-and-personal-3#imagebox

With working bumps, i just need to amplify them a bit
  12:52:23  26 August 2012
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BAC9-FLCL
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On forum: 04/10/2007
 

Message edited by:
BAC9-FLCL
08/26/2012 12:56:25
Messages: 8995
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-24-12_17-38-03_l01_escape.jpg
Unfortunately, that darkened strip is completely out of place.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-24-12_17-34-03_l01_escape.jpg
Why would you replace a stucco texture with these bricks? It removes the last bright area from the scene, leaving it with monotonous set of dark similar textures.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_01-26-58_l03u_agr_underground.jpg
Looks good.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_16-51-32_l01_escape.jpg
Not really, Argus did a better job with these, if I remember correctly. Normal map is not visible on your screenshot, and diffuse is too washed out.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_16-56-13_l01_escape.jpg
A bit too much noise on vertical planks, but still, overall it looks good.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_17-16-39_l01_escape.jpg
Table texture should provide contrast to dark textures used around it in the room, so it's not usually good to make it so rotten and scratched. I'd raise the brightness of diffuse a bit and make specular less dirty.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_01-15-34_l03u_agr_underground.jpg
http://www.moddb.com/mods/photo-realistic-zone-2/images/upclose-and-personal-3#imagebox
I'm sorry, but bricks are completely out of place there and they look a lot worse than that old texture. Why would you use them there? It was a texture of bunker concrete, not related to bricks at all.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_01-19-20_l03u_agr_underground.jpg
Looks okay, but you could play with specular on the blue paint, making it more reflective to create contrast with non-reflective concrete above.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_01-19-57_l03u_agr_underground.jpg
Scattered tiles look a bit strange, I guess you have added too much black on the seams on their texture, making them look cell-shaded.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_00-26-51_l01_escape.jpg
Normal map is OK, though it should probably be inverted, as seams are generally deeper than brick surfaces. Nevertheless, it's not the kind of texture to be used there, as I've said earlier.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_00-31-26_l01_escape.jpg
The texture itself is good, but I suspect it will look less than pleasant on buildings with large tiled surfaces. Also, again, making this texture overly dark and dirty, you've stripped the scene from the only contrast it had. White surfaces are very important.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_00-27-28_l01_escape.jpg
Like there. They work great with these bricks, and you won't replace them with brown dirt, won't you?

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_17-37-15_l03_agroprom.jpg
A bit too bumpy, scattered pieces are in fact mostly flat.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_17-36-01_l03_agroprom.jpg
Good paint.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_17-36-15_l03_agroprom.jpg
Good overall, but the texture on that crate is extremely, extremely noisy.

***

NPC skins are ultra shiny, it's a step back from Argus textures, frankly.
  21:17:59  26 August 2012
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LoNer1
Настоящий Cталкер, Русская Версия
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On forum: 10/23/2009
 

Message edited by:
LoNer1
08/26/2012 21:45:35
Messages: 1890
Ill get to fixing everything you stated now, and provide better screenshots later.

About the glossiness of most of the textures, i max out gloss in my config to fully test my specular maps. And yeah, many inverted bump maps. I left out the "Invert Y" box in PS

And most of the texture's aren't noisy, they lack proper mip-maps. These textures are from my last texture pack where i blindly copy-paste a new diffuse in the old without any real work on the textures :\ resulting in HQ textures up close, but really noisy textures from afar.

But cromm was kind enough to give me a proper mipmap "course" on how to make good mip maps for stalker.

--

Ok, feedback time


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-24-12_17-38-03_l01_escape.jpg
Unfortunately, that darkened strip is completely out of place.
---END QUOTATION---



Yeah, the tiling on this building is really weird, the strip is applied to both the top and bottom of the texture, where as the orange part is centered. Look:

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/239/d/f/url5484_by_mod_a_holic-d5cmg94.jpg

As you see, the top and bottom have that seamless dirt applied to it. Ill try to remove that manually. Thanks for the advice, but I noticed... :\ texturing the zone is really tough, most gritty textures look really, really out of place, even when the color schemes match. I plan on repainting the terrain afterwards, adding sand-type colors where I'd think sand could be etc. But it's one hell of a job, this will probably take months of trial and error before ill get a perfect looking and feeling zone.


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-24-12_17-34-03_l01_escape.jpg
Why would you replace a stucco texture with these bricks? It removes the last bright area from the scene, leaving it with monotonous set of dark similar textures.
---END QUOTATION---



I thought it looked good at first, but you're right. Ill replace it with a dark gray concrete like texture. I know exactly how to re-texture this one


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_01-26-58_l03u_agr_underground.jpg
Looks good.
---END QUOTATION---



Thanks, i do admit that the mip maps aren't ready yet, that's why its zoomed in like this


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_16-51-32_l01_escape.jpg
Not really, Argus did a better job with these, if I remember correctly. Normal map is not visible on your screenshot, and diffuse is too washed out.
---END QUOTATION---



I think this is the standard texture? I'm unsure because I lost a lot of data when my hdd failed. Ill have to check up on this, but thanks! I was thinking of using a leather like pattern, but then, finding any good leather in the zone is highly unlikely, no?


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_16-56-13_l01_escape.jpg
A bit too much noise on vertical planks, but still, overall it looks good.
---END QUOTATION---



Yeah, mip maps again. It's a pain to re-open a whole map and save them separately by hand in PS or PDN, but it has to be done anyway


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_17-16-39_l01_escape.jpg
Table texture should provide contrast to dark textures used around it in the room, so it's not usually good to make it so rotten and scratched. I'd raise the brightness of diffuse a bit and make specular less dirty.
---END QUOTATION---



I think ill keep it like the vanilla texture, just one piece of wood with a soft pattern in it, but in twice the size of the old 256x256 one. I followed your advice by heart, keeping many textures at 1k.


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_01-15-34_l03u_agr_underground.jpg
http://www.moddb.com/mods/photo-realistic-zone-2/images/upclose-and-personal-3#imagebox
I'm sorry, but bricks are completely out of place there and they look a lot worse than that old texture. Why would you use them there? It was a texture of bunker concrete, not related to bricks at all.
---END QUOTATION---



For the first one underground; Yes, i made this screenshot because i wanted to fix them immediately. They look awful indeed.

For sids bunker, I personally like them like this. It mixes it up a bit, but as you say, and as my title goes, I want to stay as close to realism as possible, so ill replace them (i will keep them for personal use tho )


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_01-19-20_l03u_agr_underground.jpg
Looks okay, but you could play with specular on the blue paint, making it more reflective to create contrast with non-reflective concrete above.
---END QUOTATION---



Will do Ill also add some variation in the color of the blue, giving a more worn look. But not too much, i dont want to create landmarks.


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_01-19-57_l03u_agr_underground.jpg
Scattered tiles look a bit strange, I guess you have added too much black on the seams on their texture, making them look cell-shaded.
---END QUOTATION---



They're vanilla it's due to my r2_sun_lumiscale_amb setting, its on 0.1 instead of 1 giving almost black shadows.


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_00-26-51_l01_escape.jpg
Normal map is OK, though it should probably be inverted, as seams are generally deeper than brick surfaces. Nevertheless, it's not the kind of texture to be used there, as I've said earlier.
---END QUOTATION---



Yes, stupid me forgetting to tick on Inv. Y in PS


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_00-31-26_l01_escape.jpg
The texture itself is good, but I suspect it will look less than pleasant on buildings with large tiled surfaces. Also, again, making this texture overly dark and dirty, you've stripped the scene from the only contrast it had. White surfaces are very important.
---END QUOTATION---



Ill tweak it a bit, i was fiddling with this texture yesterday yeah, ill whiten it up a bit where i think it will look good and provide some new SS's


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-26-12_00-27-28_l01_escape.jpg
Like there. They work great with these bricks, and you won't replace them with brown dirt, won't you?
---END QUOTATION---



No, it will increase the quality of the white texture, but ill stay true to its origins


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_17-37-15_l03_agroprom.jpg
A bit too bumpy, scattered pieces are in fact mostly flat.
---END QUOTATION---



Ill soften the normal a bit in those areas than


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_17-36-01_l03_agroprom.jpg
Good paint.
---END QUOTATION---



Thanks, spend a lot of time on this particular texture. The top concrete part is handpainted / generated from different other concrete textures. I found a nice base one but it had a massive screw centered in the mids of the texture had to manually copy/paste/smooth that out


---QUOTATION---
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/20/19369/ss_kevin_08-25-12_17-36-15_l03_agroprom.jpg
Good overall, but the texture on that crate is extremely, extremely noisy.
---END QUOTATION---



Mips

***


---QUOTATION---
NPC skins are ultra shiny, it's a step back from Argus textures, frankly.
---END QUOTATION---



r2_gloss_factor = 10 instead of 3, to test my specs
  21:25:32  27 August 2012
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BAC9-FLCL
Senior Moderator
 

 
On forum: 04/10/2007
 

Message edited by:
BAC9-FLCL
08/27/2012 21:26:09
Messages: 8995
The best way to check your bump and specular ingame without distractions is to replace diffuse with a placeholder texture, R127;G127;B127 4x4px gray fill, for example.

As about gloss factor, well. Visuals with cranked up gloss factor are hardly something useful. For example, you can't make a judgement on whether your specular brightness is appropriate, and so on.

So I'd switch back to 3.0 (or 2.5, as Argus recommended) and keep it that way.
  21:33:03  27 August 2012
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LoNer1
Настоящий Cталкер, Русская Версия
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On forum: 10/23/2009
Messages: 1890

---QUOTATION---
The best way to check your bump and specular ingame without distractions is to replace diffuse with a placeholder texture, R127;G127;B127 4x4px gray fill, for example.

As about gloss factor, well. Visuals with cranked up gloss factor are hardly something useful. For example, you can't make a judgement on whether your specular brightness is appropriate, and so on.

So I'd switch back to 3.0 (or 2.5, as Argus recommended) and keep it that way.
---END QUOTATION---



Will do
  00:58:00  28 August 2012
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BAC9-FLCL
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On forum: 04/10/2007
 

Message edited by:
BAC9-FLCL
08/28/2012 0:58:40
Messages: 8995
By the way, it's interesting to see that this variable is called gloss factor, as it is not in fact related to gloss levels. It's the specular brightness multiplier. And gloss is controlled with one of the channels of bump# texture, but this feature is rarely used.
  14:06:46  28 August 2012
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LoNer1
Настоящий Cталкер, Русская Версия
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On forum: 10/23/2009
Messages: 1890

---QUOTATION---
By the way, it's interesting to see that this variable is called gloss factor, as it is not in fact related to gloss levels. It's the specular brightness multiplier. And gloss is controlled with one of the channels of bump# texture, but this feature is rarely used.
---END QUOTATION---



How do you mean? I'm guessing the red channel? Please explain I'd like to make use of everything SHoC's engine has to offer Add's to the uniqueness of the mod and hopefully improves the textures even more

Cheers!
  15:44:24  23 September 2012
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LoNer1
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On forum: 10/23/2009
Messages: 1890
Updates!

http://www.moddb.com/mods/photo-realistic-zone-2/images/material-definition#imagebox
 
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