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Different ammo(make use of it)

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  17:39:40  6 December 2005
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Robertino_lt
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On forum: 11/19/2005
Messages: 36
Different ammo(make use of it)

well my gradfather used to be a hunter and this is how he prepared the gun-in one barrel he puts a bullet and in another he puts a shotgun shell so when the boar is away he fires the bullet ad trys to hit the heart or the brain and if he misses or injure the boar and it closes in he fires the shell

so heres the reason why i have wrote this- i've heard that the first gun you will have will be a hunting rifle with two barrels so the game developers could add this little trick to make the gun a little bit more useful firing should be used something like this primary mouse button-bullet secondary mouse button-shell

post your ideas
  19:04:56  6 December 2005
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Flixz
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On forum: 12/04/2005
 

Message edited by:
Flixz
12/06/2005 19:07:16
Messages: 24
I don't really understand youre point to well, but I like the idea of different types of ammo, for example, AK ammo (still compatible with any AK assault rifle) but in different types, for example a "blue" type which is better for close range, is little less acurate but does little more damage, and a "red" type, better suited for long range, so little more accurate, but does a little less damage. Or different kinds of clips, 20 round clips, and 30 round clips for example, or double clips maybe.

[url=http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl02-e.htm]Different kinds of RPG's[/url] also would be cool in my opinion.
  21:03:46  6 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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On forum: 06/04/2003
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He's saying that his grandfather would load his double-barrel shotgun with one slug and one buckshot when he went boar hunting. He'd fire both barrels at once, that way if he missed with the slug and fail to kill the boar, he would hit it with the buckshot and wound it.
  14:51:42  7 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
 

Message edited by:
x5060
12/07/2005 14:59:53
Messages: 2015
Uh... Ill settle for just diffrent types of rounds. FMJ, JHP, AP, Tracer, Id be fine with those. if the devs want ot get fancy, then they can let me stager the rounds in my mags.

Felix. In that link to the other types of RPG7 round, did you see the TBG-7V Thermobaric round? For anyone that dosent know, that is one WICKED round. Id uses an incredibly intense pressure wave to kill. Its like a mini Fuel Air Bomb (Hence the FAE marking). This round could take out a building if fired into the first story. The US is testing thermobaric rockets in Afganistan, they fire them into caves where suspected weapons caches or terrorists are, and since its a confined space, it will destry anything and everyone in the cave. Possibly one of the most awsome anti-personel munitions today.
  01:32:40  8 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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The marines have them for the at4s. Apparently, anything that protects you from normal blasts and fragments makes the effect of FAE's worse. Body armour, cover, fox holes, etc, make the shockwave much more brutal. They also suck all of the oxygen out of the air with intense heat, which causes an implosion after the explosion... all the debris that went out, comes flying back in. The russians developed them in the 60's or something and called them 'vaccuum bombs.'
  03:13:36  8 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
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---QUOTATION---
The marines have them for the at4s. Apparently, anything that protects you from normal blasts and fragments makes the effect of FAE's worse. Body armour, cover, fox holes, etc, make the shockwave much more brutal. They also suck all of the oxygen out of the air with intense heat, which causes an implosion after the explosion... all the debris that went out, comes flying back in. The russians developed them in the 60's or something and called them 'vaccuum bombs.'
---END QUOTATION---



The AT4 is a self enclosed warhead. The thermobaric weapon was developed for he SMAW.
  06:23:59  8 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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Yeah, I thought I read on military.com that it was the at-4. I can't find any sources now, so I must be mistaken. Maybe I'm confusing it with the m72 with the NE warhead.
  13:17:45  8 December 2005
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Flixz
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On forum: 12/04/2005
 

Message edited by:
Flixz
12/08/2005 13:18:21
Messages: 24
wow, you guys have quite some knowledge about weaponry

Dunno, but I think that if there were to be different ammo types, I think it would be better that the devs just make some up, with some differences in things like accuracy or damage, with names like "red type" or "blue typee", so they can also give the ammo icons in the inventory I distinguishing red/blue strip or something like that.
Basing it on real types and names would make it confusing, especially for beginners, I think.
  16:41:08  8 December 2005
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Dulus
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On forum: 10/02/2004
Messages: 116
I agree. It would be confusing.
The name of the ammo is to some who is not an hunter or military or policeman ......... is just only the name maybe with some numbers.
In SWAT it was solved pretty good, but it was still confusing anyway. In SWAT there was a name of ammo type with short description and some tips against which type of enemy is it most suitable (classic or impact-explosive is best against unarmoured target, full metal jacket is best against armoured targets an so on....)

But in stalker there should be something like that mentioned "red/blue" dividing.
It can have a original name, but under that something like "anti-pearcing"
"explosive", "normal", "improved accuracy", "uranium filled" and things like that.
Just to make it obvious for everyone which type of ammo use in which situation.

Or simply there could be only one type of ammo for each weapon and all that stuff with choosing the best type of ammo will be away.

And abou that bigger/double magazines, it is not very common to see it. Every weapon's original magazine is designed as compromise between capacity and weight. Try to imagine that during a firefight you are trying to load that pretty heavy(more than twicw as normal) magazine into your weapon. Also it is harder to carry such heavy magazines on belt or something.
As I know bigger magazines are used only in specific situations.

And another one little problem is how to quickly(durin fight) choose which type of magazine will you load.

Imagine it. You have two 60 rounds and two 30 rounds on belt. You shoot first one 60 and then what? Some dialog with options ? OK maybe it will automatically load that another 60 rounds magazine. You shoo it out. Reloading 30 rounds mag. Shooting.....You have already shooted 25 rounds....and now in the middle of combat with belief that you have another 35 rounds in mag. (you have forgotten that you have 60,60,30,30 on belt) and now you are staying in front of 3 creatures. You will shoot one and then realize that crucial mistake,.....but it's too late.
  16:54:14  8 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
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---QUOTATION---

Imagine it. You have two 60 rounds and two 30 rounds on belt. You shoot first one 60 and then what? Some dialog with options ? OK maybe it will automatically load that another 60 rounds magazine. You shoo it out. Reloading 30 rounds mag. Shooting.....You have already shooted 25 rounds....and now in the middle of combat with belief that you have another 35 rounds in mag. (you have forgotten that you have 60,60,30,30 on belt) and now you are staying in front of 3 creatures. You will shoot one and then realize that crucial mistake,.....but it's too late.
---END QUOTATION---



That sounds like something that would happen in real life. Guess you should remmember then.

Anyway, i really dont think its a good idea to dumb the game down so much so there is NO learning curve. With very little knowledge of weaponry a person can figure out the diffrence between full metal jacket, jacketed hollow points, armour percing, and a tracer. Its not hard, though usually the rounds themselves are differentiated. M805 (thats a 5.56 round with a steel core) has a green tip, tracers are usually red, incindiary rounds are orange, FMJ has nothing painted on the tip, and JHP... well theres a hole in the tip (duh). But it shoudlent be dumbed down to the point of red bullets and blue bullets.
  20:46:50  8 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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On forum: 06/04/2003
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---QUOTATION---

I agree. It would be confusing.
The name of the ammo is to some who is not an hunter or military or policeman ......... is just only the name maybe with some numbers.
In SWAT it was solved pretty good, but it was still confusing anyway. In SWAT there was a name of ammo type with short description and some tips against which type of enemy is it most suitable (classic or impact-explosive is best against unarmoured target, full metal jacket is best against armoured targets an so on....)

---END QUOTATION---



I don't recall any impact explosives in SWAT (I played SWAT 3 and 4, but 3 was a long time ago). I think you might be referring to expanding bullets, but I don't know. There was definitely no explosive bullets in SWAT, and there aren't really any explosive bullets in pistol or assault rifle calibres in real life.

Expanding bullets like the hollow point increase in diameter when they enter the body, forming a greater hole and bleeding off all their energy so they don't over-penetrate.
  17:16:37  9 December 2005
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Dulus
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On forum: 10/02/2004
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Yes I was thinking about those expanding/hollow point bullets, but I didn't know how it's called in english.
Or to be more precise I was thinking about that sort of bullets which are filled with mercury or other liquid/material. When they hit the taget they "explode"-=- they are ragged to multiple smaller parts "shards"-=- and those parts then cull/damage the surrounding material. I think that in USA there is famous ammo of this type called "Blood Mary".

I hope you understand me, because my english is not very perfect.
  18:31:09  9 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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---QUOTATION---
Yes I was thinking about those expanding/hollow point bullets, but I didn't know how it's called in english.
Or to be more precise I was thinking about that sort of bullets which are filled with mercury or other liquid/material. When they hit the taget they "explode"-=- they are ragged to multiple smaller parts "shards"-=- and those parts then cull/damage the surrounding material. I think that in USA there is famous ammo of this type called "Blood Mary".

I hope you understand me, because my english is not very perfect.
---END QUOTATION---



I've never heard them called 'Bloody Mary' and I'm not sure if USA is famous for them, but they don't 'explode' either. They also sort of expand and fragment a bit.
  21:10:30  9 December 2005
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Flixz
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On forum: 12/04/2005
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Poisonous bullets or projectiles that give of radioactive stuff when they hit you takes the game a little to far in my opinion.

Some different ammo types for much used rifles/assault rifles like the AK would be cool, pistols for example would better just have 1 type, it's own type/caliber/mm, of ammo.
  21:29:48  9 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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Poisonous/radioactive?
  21:59:55  9 December 2005
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Robertino_lt
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On forum: 11/19/2005
Messages: 36
anybody want to make mods with different ammo?(or shall you wait till the game is finished?)
  09:58:35  10 December 2005
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Dulus
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On forum: 10/02/2004
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---QUOTATION---
Poisonous/radioactive?
---END QUOTATION---



It's not that hard to get an example of poisonous bullet.
In history there was an attack on some state leader (I think it was Prussia -not Russia- but not sure) in which he was killed by bullet fired from an umbrella which had 3 holes, filled with rycine(it is very efficient poison, but I'm not sure, and unable to find in dictionary how it is called in english--it is ten times efficient than cyanide). So imagining poisonous bullets is not that hard.

And about radioactive. Uhmmmm. I've heard that in Iraq were used uranium shells, which then caused illnesses to US troops.
And SPAS 12 have also uranium ammo, but I don't know if it is bullets or only the cartridge.
  23:46:43  10 December 2005
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Flixz
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On forum: 12/04/2005
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Sounds like a good idea if you're a bad guy in reality

Though I think it just doesn't fit into a game like S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
I think it would be darn irritating to be sick while playing, just because someone hit you with 1 bullet.

My opinion.
  01:26:07  11 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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---QUOTATION---
Poisonous/radioactive?

It's not that hard to get an example of poisonous bullet.
In history there was an attack on some state leader (I think it was Prussia -not Russia- but not sure) in which he was killed by bullet fired from an umbrella which had 3 holes, filled with rycine(it is very efficient poison, but I'm not sure, and unable to find in dictionary how it is called in english--it is ten times efficient than cyanide). So imagining poisonous bullets is not that hard.

And about radioactive. Uhmmmm. I've heard that in Iraq were used uranium shells, which then caused illnesses to US troops.
And SPAS 12 have also uranium ammo, but I don't know if it is bullets or only the cartridge.
---END QUOTATION---



Oh, I thought you meant that you thought we had discussed those previously. I had no idea that you were introducing a new idea.

Depleted uranium shells are only for anti-tank cannons.
  03:11:46  11 December 2005
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Wilmer
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On forum: 02/23/2005
Messages: 59
To those who don't get it I want to say that depleted uranium is used because it's heavy not because it's radioactive.

Also poisonous bullets are silly. The bullet Dulus mentions weren't fired from the umbrella, it was lying in the tip and stabbed into the knee of the victim. He died three days later. That's why poison is silly because normally a bullet will kill a person and even if he survives the bullet has probably passed through thus not delivering a high enought dose.

I think they should have "special" ammo that exists in real life. I think people are smart enought to understand the differences if the items have an explanatory text. Anyways, experimenting is fun.
  07:38:00  11 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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DU also has a wicked incendiary effect.
  18:57:16  11 December 2005
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Dulus
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On forum: 10/02/2004
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Hey people I have just mentioned that poisonus/radioactive bullets exists, but I don't want them in the game. At first they are rare and must be specially manufactured so I think you would not find them just lying in the zone, and secondly if radioactivity in the zone did't already killed the creatures, it's not worth to use radioactive bullets. And poisonus is another crazy idea. I just wrote it like some prove that they exists but are not used commonly.
And btw, as I mentioned, different ammo types looks to me like unpractical thing. It's only another improvement that will make unhappy people who wants more action than clicking.
If every improvement mentioned in these forums (for e.g say : fuel, different magazines, repairing the cars, diff. ammo, long maintaining of weapons, tripping, and so on....) will be added to the game, it will turn to something like STALKER MANAGER 2006.....
It will take hours and hours to prepare yourself for a five minutes action.
Maybe different grenades or rockets is usefull but different bullets to pistols, rifles and so on is only some another thing, that will nearly no one use. Of course there are people who consider this crucial, but there are always some people who wants something different.
But this is free opinion forum and everyone can write here what he think so it's only on the dev team what they want to add and what not.

And if you want stalker to be a most realstic game ever made, than it's no need to read these my words.
  20:29:06  11 December 2005
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Flixz
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On forum: 12/04/2005
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Yeah I agree on the poisonous/radioactive bullets.

Though I still thing a few kinds of ammo would be cool, implementing it would make to much trouble, for example on the reloading part that, that you'd profit from it.
  13:57:58  12 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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Message edited by:
x5060
12/12/2005 13:58:29
Messages: 2015
Ill straighten out some things here.

The posiones "bullet" was just a delivery system for the poison, the actual ballistics of it were horrible. It had an effective range of only a few feet. The holes made it inherently unstable, because of weight distribution and aerodynamics.

There are no mercury filled rounds. They dont exist. It is an urban legend. There are rounds that are ment to fragment through a target instead of just tumble, such as the 5.56. The round upon encountering a soft target fragments violently. You may think of this as "exploding" however there is no explosive charge, its just the kinetic energy of the round being disipated.

There are no DU rounds for the SPAS12. the spas 12 only takes shotgun shells (12 gauge). DU is only used in rounds larger than the 50 cal. This is because there is just not enough powder behind a round smaller than that to get a decent muzzle velocity that is critical to its lethality. The secondary incindiary effects of the weapon are just simply because of the sheer amount of friction between an incredibly dense round and slicing through 3 feet of reinforced armoour. This effect is only realized from the M1's 120mm Main gun, and too a lesser degree the A10's GAU-8 30mm gatling gun.

As for a radioactive bullet, that just sounds dumb... why would you want someone to die VERY SLOWLY because of radioactivity, when you could just put another bullet in them and thier dead. Obviously if you are shooting at them, you no longer want them to live, and you want them to no longer live, very quickly. Though radioactivity would be a horrible death, it would comparitivly be very slow.
  01:19:08  13 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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Message edited by:
Fux0r666
12/13/2005 6:02:03
Messages: 1927
Someone said that there was a DU round for a shotgun??

Yeah, Uranium likes to get nice and hot when it's compressed- more so than other materials of similar density/ abundance.

I also thought that the mercury filled rounds were an urban legend. Wikipedia gave some information on 'how they worked,' so I decided to share it.
  14:48:05  13 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
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---QUOTATION---
Someone said that there was a DU round for a shotgun??
---END QUOTATION---




---QUOTATION---

And SPAS 12 have also uranium ammo, but I don't know if it is bullets or only the cartridge.
---END QUOTATION---



since a SPAS12 is a shotgun, id guess this made up round came in a shotgun shell.


---QUOTATION---

I also thought that the mercury filled rounds were an urban legend. Wikipedia gave some information on 'how they worked,' so I decided to share it.
---END QUOTATION---



if anyone ever starts talking about mercury filled rounds to you, youll know that they have no idea what they are talking about.

And i almost forgot.


---QUOTATION---
And about radioactive. Uhmmmm. I've heard that in Iraq were used uranium shells, which then caused illnesses to US troops.
---END QUOTATION---



the operative word of Depleted Uranium, is the word "Depleted". This stuff is barly radioactive. You would get more radiation from an indeglow watch than from sitting next to a 120mm depleted uranium kinetic penetrator. However there is one danger, but its not radioactivity. When a round hits an armoured target a very thin portion of the outer part of hte round is vaporized. So now you have a gasous form of DU in the air. This could be toxic if a soldier has a long enough exposure time. However this would disapate quickly, then its not a big deal. However this is a down side to all modern kinetic penetrators. The human body just dosent like breathing in heavy metals. This is also the reason we tell our soldiers not to climb around destroyed enemy vehicals (among other reasons).
  16:11:08  13 December 2005
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Dulus
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On forum: 10/02/2004
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Sorry, but i know it surely, that mercury filled bullets exists. Maybe you mean that legend that someone was killed by that mercury inside, but that isn't what I meant.

As I know the mercury is added in the bullet, because it is pretty heavy liquid. and that word liquid is critical. When the bullet hits the target, it's kinetic energy cause that it will penetrate in, decreasing it's speed quickly. And because liquid has different physical properties as metal(or solid material) it will decrease it's speed less quickly as metal so it will try to get in front of the bullet. And because that the mercury will tear apart the bullet, and those parts then cause much more damage.
I have read it in the book for policeman so it should be true OR I am crazy OR the author of that book is crazy.

Peace
  16:54:06  13 December 2005
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shefa
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On forum: 09/29/2005
Messages: 50
5.45x39

this type of bullet enters ur body through ur leg , changes its trajectory went out through ur neck.
pretty cool
one shot , one kill
  18:27:34  13 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
 

Message edited by:
x5060
12/13/2005 18:28:37
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
Sorry, but i know it surely, that mercury filled bullets exists. Maybe you mean that legend that someone was killed by that mercury inside, but that isn't what I meant.

As I know the mercury is added in the bullet, because it is pretty heavy liquid. and that word liquid is critical. When the bullet hits the target, it's kinetic energy cause that it will penetrate in, decreasing it's speed quickly. And because liquid has different physical properties as metal(or solid material) it will decrease it's speed less quickly as metal so it will try to get in front of the bullet. And because that the mercury will tear apart the bullet, and those parts then cause much more damage.
I have read it in the book for policeman so it should be true OR I am crazy OR the author of that book is crazy.

Peace
---END QUOTATION---



My guess is that either you or the author is crazy. Ive run into this myth for the last 2 decades. NO one ive ever met that had any actual experiance with mercury filled munitions. Ive never seen or even HEARD of anyone ever being killed by a Mercury filled slug. This is a load of BS. There are bullets that fragment, but it is NOT caused by mercury, its the simple application of stresses on the bullet caused by the human body that tear the bullet apart.



---QUOTATION---
5.45x39

this type of bullet enters ur body through ur leg , changes its trajectory went out through ur neck.
pretty cool
one shot , one kill
---END QUOTATION---



Ok, the 5.45 round DOES NOT "change its trajectory", its a bullet, it keeps moving in the same direction untill a large enough force is met that it changes direction. There is nothing in the human body solid enough to cause any where close to such a "change in trajectory"

The 5.45 round really stinks actually. It was based off of a flawed understanding of the 5.56 round. When the russians developed the round (back in the early 70s) they still believed the 5.56 round caused its temporary and permanent crush cavities by tumbling through the target. This is simply not true. The 5.56 round gains its lethality by fragmenting into the target, this means it breaks up into smaller peices that are more easily stoped in the body, thus having a better transfer of kinetic energy into the target. This also cause multiple wound trails which is MUCH harder to treat even if you have a fully stocked surgery and trauma ward. It also creates a MUCH larger temporary cruch cavity and and pretty good sized larger permanent crush cavity.
  18:43:01  13 December 2005
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shefa
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On forum: 09/29/2005
Messages: 50
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff

thanx for the info
  19:53:14  13 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
 

Message edited by:
x5060
12/14/2005 1:59:32
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff

thanx for the info
---END QUOTATION---



Though the ammo-oracle is a very good sight, it only deals with 5.56 and .223. If you want more info on the 5.45 round i suggest this study.

[link]http://www.btammolabs.com/fackler/ak74_wounding_potential.pdf[/link]
  20:03:52  13 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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Yeah, I somehow missed that thing about the spas12. Maybe I didn't read back far enough. I wasn't being cheeky
  23:41:36  13 December 2005
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shefa
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On forum: 09/29/2005
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Hooyah
  15:36:20  14 December 2005
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Flixz
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Could you ammo freaks continou this discussing about all kinds of fact about ammo in the spam section Cuz this obviously is taking the tread pretty oftopic.
  15:59:35  14 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
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---QUOTATION---
Could you ammo freaks continou this discussing about all kinds of fact about ammo in the spam section Cuz this obviously is taking the tread pretty oftopic.
---END QUOTATION---



How is talking about "Diffrent ammo" in a thread about "diffrent ammo" taking it offtopic?
  06:28:38  15 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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LOL! What an idiot.
  15:34:04  15 December 2005
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Flixz
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Message edited by:
Flixz
12/15/2005 15:35:22
Messages: 24
Were talking about a GAME! IDOIT! LOL!

If you wanna blaat so much about if the SPAS blabla does fire radioactive shit or not go do it somewhere else, this isn't a forum about the militairy or something.
  20:06:24  15 December 2005
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Fux0r666
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---QUOTATION---
Were talking about a GAME! IDOIT! LOL!

If you wanna blaat so much about if the SPAS blabla does fire radioactive shit or not go do it somewhere else, this isn't a forum about the militairy or something.
---END QUOTATION---



Keep it going, man. You haven't saved any face yet, but maybe if you push it harder. There's a boy
  23:40:38  15 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
Were talking about a GAME! IDOIT! LOL!

If you wanna blaat so much about if the SPAS blabla does fire radioactive shit or not go do it somewhere else, this isn't a forum about the militairy or something.
---END QUOTATION---



... They were thinking of other ideas for the game...

P.S. this forum is partially about the military... thier in the game...
  09:20:08  16 December 2005
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shefa
(Senior)
 
On forum: 09/29/2005
Messages: 50
LMG

I noticed that there isn't light machine gun or heavy machine gun in the game.This weapon is essential. for examlpe when in combat you team needs to regroup , the machine gunner starts rock'n'rollin , while the rest of the platoon reload weapons and regroup.Just to keep the enemy's heads down for a while.
  09:31:08  16 December 2005
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shefa
(Senior)
 
On forum: 09/29/2005
Messages: 50
Tracer bullets at night?

what do you think?
if not the whole magazine , at least the firs two or three rounds.
  11:28:36  16 December 2005
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Flixz
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/04/2005
Messages: 24
I love the idea of an LMG ingame, I think it would be pretty cool, especially mounted LMG's.

Night tracers would also be pretty cool, though if I remember right this was already implemented, but I don't think there will be many night time maps, would be nice for singleplayer tho.
  19:51:21  16 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
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On forum: 06/04/2003
Messages: 1927
No prone, no supported lmg.
  21:02:32  16 December 2005
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wondervirus
Resident Filth
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On forum: 03/30/2004
Messages: 337
Fuxor, in the most recent video, they did show a fixed position machinegun,
tho none of the stalkers used it (feh). It is possible they are adding that
as one of the 'we are adding stuff' kinds of features,
  23:08:10  16 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015
The problem with LMG's, is even though they are called "light" they arent so light. They are heavy, consume MASS amounts of ammunition in a very short time, and are not to accurate. HMG's have to be mounted and non-manportable, so there goes that idea. The only real good use for an LMG is as a covering fire weapon.

Tracers are usually staggered about every 3rd or 4th round.
  10:15:48  17 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
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On forum: 06/04/2003
Messages: 1927
Well the weapon that wondervirus describes would be a heavy machinegun, I guess. Still, no prone position, no supported lmg. It's a shame. I really like support weapons in ofp (mods, noone plays vanilla ofp anymore). The AI usually reacts to the hail of fire by going prone if they are out in the open.. it makes them sweet sweet candy for the riflemen.
  14:01:01  17 December 2005
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shefa
(Senior)
 
On forum: 09/29/2005
Messages: 50

---QUOTATION---
The problem with LMG's, is even though they are called "light" they arent so light. They are heavy, consume MASS amounts of ammunition in a very short time, and are not to accurate. HMG's have to be mounted and non-manportable, so there goes that idea. The only real good use for an LMG is as a covering fire weapon.

Tracers are usually staggered about every 3rd or 4th round.
---END QUOTATION---



OK , guys , the machine guns usually are carried by two man , but in every special forces/recon units the machine guns are modified for one man.Yeah ,this weapon requiers a lot of ammo and free space and in the real life the machine gunners are allways the slowest members of the groups.
BUT I think it's good idea this weapon to be placed in the game , even if it's rear to find. The military stalkers are in group , so one man may carry machne gun , other sniper rifle , the rest of the crew - AK's with underbarrel grenade launchers.Anyway , the developers will decide what to include and what not.
  18:59:24  17 December 2005
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Dulus
(Senior)
 
On forum: 10/02/2004
Messages: 116
Snipers, are commonly lone soldiers (or with another one man who helps them to aim better). And those who are in group with other soldiers are not snipers in real. They only have some better rifles with scopes. It's because the sniping is mainly about waiting. Some snipers must wait for their target even a few days. So if you are in the group with another 10 men, you are more easy to spot and also those another 10 men have nothing to do, coz they cannot do nothing with their weapons on the long distances, but the sniper can.

So sniping isn't some first line action.
  19:01:45  17 December 2005
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Dulus
(Senior)
 
On forum: 10/02/2004
 

Message edited by:
Dulus
12/17/2005 19:05:03
Messages: 116

---QUOTATION---
what do you think?
if not the whole magazine , at least the firs two or three rounds.
---END QUOTATION---



Uhmm.
Tracers are good for you, but also they are good for your enemy, because if you start firing on them, the tracers will light, and your night cover is away.

And about those LMGs.
As it was mentioned they have their place only in group of soldiers as support weapon to provide covering fire. So maybe in MP, but definitely not in SP. It will be only another thing that you will carry "but what if something will happen, and I will need it".
  22:46:00  17 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
 

Message edited by:
x5060
12/17/2005 23:34:23
Messages: 2015
LMG's as described dont really exist in a modern military. they have been relegated to a defensive support weapon. The clsoest thing to an LMG that is used today is an M240 or M249 which are both considered offensive support weapons. Thier is mounted in its normal form (although tere are mounted forms).

ETA:

As for the squad based snipers there are a few countries that do this. The most notable of which is Isreal. They have whats termed a "Dedicated marksman" This is someone usually with a national match M16 with a 20" barrel and an adjustable 1-8x ELCAN. This has wokred very well for the isrealies, a group of soldiers i would not want to mess with.
  12:26:29  18 December 2005
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Robertino_lt
(Novice)
 
On forum: 11/19/2005
Messages: 36
about the snipers it goes offtopic but you may know a group of people who play soldiers with real guns real tactics and so on but fake bullets.
so everything is real except for the bullets so nobody gets hurt and they actually use a sniper in the group-as u have said 10 people 1 sniper.
the sniper acts as a scout reports to the squad leader and tries to pick off a few members of the opposing squad(because his rifle has triple the range)and when he sees that he is spotted and hunted then he retreats to the squad or changes his position
  15:01:04  18 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015
Well i have no idea who these people are, sounds like they use simunitions. Thats typically not how israelie dedicated marksmen are employed. Basically most of the squad is outfitted for CQB and short to medium ranged combat. Then they have 1-2 members of the squad outfitted from medium to long range. They are not realyl a sniper perse(hence why they are called dedicated marksmen), however they do deal with targets out to distances at which a sniper would be engaging targets.
  16:13:06  18 December 2005
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Flixz
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/04/2005
Messages: 24
I think this is going pretty oftopic.

For the game itsself I think it would be very cool to have mounted MG's (would be awsome if it was a Kord )without ammo like in Call of Duty, to make some positions better defendable for example.
  16:36:14  21 December 2005
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Dulus
(Senior)
 
On forum: 10/02/2004
Messages: 116
sorry dude, but there are many ideas to increase the realism of the game, so I don't think that unlimited ammo MG will be implemented in the game.
  17:36:25  21 December 2005
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wondervirus
Resident Filth
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On forum: 03/30/2004
Messages: 337
I'm not fond of unlimited ammo as a game tool, but don't forget that any
fixed position makes you a greaaat biiig, stationary target. I would imagine
that if the AI is as smart as it's been described, you'd find yourself out-
flanked in short order.
  17:57:39  21 December 2005
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shefa
(Senior)
 
On forum: 09/29/2005
Messages: 50
rules of engagement

I wonder if the military will shoot at you immediately after they spot you.
  21:00:57  21 December 2005
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CAPSLOCK
(Novice)
 
On forum: 09/17/2004
Messages: 48

---QUOTATION---
rules of engagement

I wonder if the military will shoot at you immediately after they spot you.
---END QUOTATION---



Since you´re not supposed to be in there in the first place, and the fact that you´re probably quite heavily armed, I think they´ll open fire as soon as the spot you.
  00:14:04  22 December 2005
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Omikias
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/08/2005
Messages: 21
Really, I beleve that the "bigger magazine" upgrade should be just that; an upgrade. If there was an option for "customizeing" your weapon, you would have to balance out the pros and cons.

Bigger clips = longer reload time
Speed loader = lesser reload time
Better scope = lowered periferal vision
NV-Scope = no day-time use of snipeing

So on and so forth.
  11:27:24  24 December 2005
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Dulus
(Senior)
 
On forum: 10/02/2004
Messages: 116
Isn't it possible to use NV scope also during days?

I don't know nothing about this stuff, but it seems to me little dumby then.
  14:37:04  24 December 2005
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Omikias
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/08/2005
Messages: 21

---QUOTATION---
Isn't it possible to use NV scope also during days?

I don't know nothing about this stuff, but it seems to me little dumby then.
---END QUOTATION---

NVG's or scopes super-enhance starlight, moonlight, or even streetlights to a very high level. Literally, if you looked dead-on into a pair of headlights with NVG's you'd go blind.
  10:11:05  25 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
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On forum: 06/04/2003
Messages: 1927
Wrong.
  16:47:46  25 December 2005
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Omikias
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/08/2005
Messages: 21

---QUOTATION---
Wrong.
---END QUOTATION---


Then perhaps you'd care to explain then?
  18:19:03  25 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
Wrong.
Then perhaps you'd care to explain then?
---END QUOTATION---



1. The screen inside a pair of NVG's can only go so bright, not even close to enough to blind or even stun you.

2. Larger mags should NOT be an upgrade, you dont modify mags to be bigger, you just buy new mags.
  20:27:45  25 December 2005
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Omikias
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/08/2005
 

Message edited by:
Omikias
12/25/2005 20:28:09
Messages: 21
I didn't mean physicly blind. I ment as in you can't see a bloody thing. Kinda hard to see motion in a screen of white. Maybe I should've reworded it? As for the bigger mag buying, thats exactly what I ment; you gotta buy the bigger magazines. Everything has a price; magazines, scopes, silencers. You name it.
  02:03:07  26 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
I didn't mean physicly blind. I ment as in you can't see a bloody thing. Kinda hard to see motion in a screen of white. Maybe I should've reworded it? As for the bigger mag buying, thats exactly what I ment; you gotta buy the bigger magazines. Everything has a price; magazines, scopes, silencers. You name it.
---END QUOTATION---



1) Well actually every NVG set since 3rd generation NVG's automatically adjust contrast. however you dont want ot use them durring the day because it narrows your feild of vision soo much.

2) But you dont just "upgrade" your magazine. you have ot buy new ones, and not just once, but over and over and over, then you have to make sure that you retain them.
  04:04:41  26 December 2005
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Omikias
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/08/2005
Messages: 21

---QUOTATION---
I didn't mean physicly blind. I ment as in you can't see a bloody thing. Kinda hard to see motion in a screen of white. Maybe I should've reworded it? As for the bigger mag buying, thats exactly what I ment; you gotta buy the bigger magazines. Everything has a price; magazines, scopes, silencers. You name it.

1) Well actually every NVG set since 3rd generation NVG's automatically adjust contrast. however you dont want ot use them durring the day because it narrows your feild of vision soo much.

2) But you dont just "upgrade" your magazine. you have ot buy new ones, and not just once, but over and over and over, then you have to make sure that you retain them.
---END QUOTATION---

If you know anything about hunting with any clip-base weapon, you never just drop the magazine when you're done; too expencive to replace. Instead you pocket them in a seperate place than your full clips. Beleve me, I am not gonna pay 40-60$ for a brand new one for my Ruger. I can understand getting empty mags reloaded at The Dealer, but (for me) I wouldn't want to have to buy fresh new magazines and pay extra when I still got the ones I just used.
  08:14:33  26 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
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On forum: 06/04/2003
 

Message edited by:
Fux0r666
12/26/2005 8:29:24
Messages: 1927
I think it would be pretty cool to have to buy new magazines, so you have an ammo pool that can be less or more than you're capable of carrying in magazines... but I don't think that they'll do that. I wouldn't imagine that they would have different magazines for any one weapon at all. It owuld be nice, though.. it would force the player to plan and budget

edit:
Also, the night optics on the m1a1 battle tank and other US military vehicles are considered their primary sights. The tank crews don't really use the day sights. These are IR systems, though.

The gen III and later night vision really reduces bloom and other washout effects and allow you to see very close to the infrared colour spectrum. This makes blue light pretty invisible to the system, though. Wikipedia has some good articles on that sort of thing, albeit their information stops at genIII, and I think there's GenIII or Gen4 out now.
  19:33:38  27 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
 

Message edited by:
x5060
12/27/2005 19:35:21
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
If you know anything about hunting with any clip-base weapon, you never just drop the magazine when you're done; too expencive to replace. Instead you pocket them in a seperate place than your full clips. Beleve me, I am not gonna pay 40-60$ for a brand new one for my Ruger. I can understand getting empty mags reloaded at The Dealer, but (for me) I wouldn't want to have to buy fresh new magazines and pay extra when I still got the ones I just used.
---END QUOTATION---



Hunting!?!?!?! this is combat. you shoot and scoot. if you have time you go back for your mags. if you dont you drop and reload, screw mag retention. when it comes down to do or die, a holding onto an empty mag aint worth your life.

Fux, Gen4 stuff is absolutly astounding. there isnt a lot of info out htere, but from personal experiance, its like a minature FLIR system, if the objects are thin and not to dense, you can easily look through them, including walls, bushes and other stuff.
  20:03:44  27 December 2005
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Flixz
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/04/2005
Messages: 24
For the magazines: I think it should be kept just like in most shooters like Counter-Strike an Call of Duty; you repload, and you place a full clip in again, taking of a certrain ammount of bullets you carry.

For the larger mags: I think you should buy em, and you can chose between the types of mags you have, somewhat the same as you chose between you're arms, you have like: your pistol/grenade/knive/assaultrifle with large mag/assaultrifle with small mag.

When you for example switch from large mag to a small mag, you reload youre gun, placing a small mag in.

I think it would be pretty cool if it was somewhat the same as in Battlefield 2, where you for example also have the assault rifle twice in you're inventory menu; one for just shooting with bullets, and one for shooting with the grenatelauncher.

I think solving it like that would also make implementing different ammo types more practical. So when you for example have mag.typeA loaded in youre gun, and you switch to mag.typeB, you reload the gun (I don't know to much about guns, but in most cases you'll also have to reload the chambre and have to discard the round that was in right?) and you have mag.typeB loaded in.
  23:23:57  28 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015
Im not really sure what you are saying, its kind of hard to follow. However i always hate how FPS's always seem to have unlimited full mags.


---QUOTATION---
I don't know to much about guns, but in most cases you'll also have to reload the chambre and have to discard the round that was in right?
---END QUOTATION---



Nope
  23:55:04  29 December 2005
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Flixz
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/04/2005
 

Message edited by:
Flixz
12/29/2005 23:58:41
Messages: 24
what i mean is:

If you have a blablabla mag in your gun and its fully loaded and you load a different blablabla type of bullets into your gun, can you just take out the mag and place in the new one?

btw, afterall I think larger mags would suck, it just crap to implement.
A "larger mag" upgrade is just stupid. And buying large/small mags is even more stupid cuz If you have a choise why wouldn't you always buy the larger ones.

Though different ammo types for example the AK woudl be cool imo, and easy to implement, just by letting the player chose which kind of ammo it wants to use the same way as chosing a weapon from the inverntory list when you scroll up/down
  05:56:55  30 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 06/04/2003
Messages: 1927
You can just take any mag out and replace it with another load. If the new load isn't capable of cycling the mechanism, you'll have to reprime it every time you take a shot. However, the more powerful round would cycle a round from the new magazine as normal. The following shots would either fail to cycle or jam or whatever. This is the only hitch I can think of when you're reloading different ammo types- and it's really only a concern in semi automatic shotguns with robust gas operation, like the SPAS12. I suppose there's a lot less danger when underloading a shotgun than overloading it.

So, to recap, if you're loading between ammo types with one in the chamber, the only reason why you'd have to touch the priming handle/slide/lever is if the new ammo didn't cycle or jammed due to a deficiency in the ammo itself.
  13:59:24  30 December 2005
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x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015
Fux got it right. although when he says "prime" he means chambering a new round.


---QUOTATION---

btw, afterall I think larger mags would suck, it just crap to implement.
A "larger mag" upgrade is just stupid. And buying large/small mags is even more stupid cuz If you have a choise why wouldn't you always buy the larger ones.
---END QUOTATION---



In the real world, USGI mags for my AR cost anywere from 15-25$ and Beta-C mags cost about 225 if you can get them on a good deal but are 250 retail.

AK mags:

Romanion 30rd mags will run about 10-15$ a peice.

Chinese 30rd mags go for about 20$.

Romanion 75rd drums go for about 90-100.

Actual russian drums go for about 150 while the chinese drums go for about 115-125.

Drum mags are far more expensive, and much harder to come by anyway.
 
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