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  12:32:21  28 January 2004
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PRES_00
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On forum: 01/15/2004
Messages: 922
Top Stories Ratings

I haven't followed the literary contest up to now. To be honest I've only started reading the first part of "Predator of one, Prey of another".

I've noticed on the Stalker site that the "Zone Tales" has ratings for each story. Only good trip (haven't read yet, sorry) has a good grade of 9.64 (almost 100 percent). Why don't the other stroies even have a passing mark (60 percent).

My reason for asking is that I assume that a lot more quality work could have been found in such a contest. Is it because some just read the first story that appears on the page and don't bother with the rest?
  22:55:27  28 January 2004
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Ian_C
The man lacking a plan
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 08/02/2003
Messages: 273

---QUOTATION---
Top Stories Ratings

I haven't followed the literary contest up to now. To be honest I've only started reading the first part of "Predator of one, Prey of another".

I've noticed on the Stalker site that the "Zone Tales" has ratings for each story. Only good trip (haven't read yet, sorry) has a good grade of 9.64 (almost 100 percent). Why don't the other stroies even have a passing mark (60 percent).

My reason for asking is that I assume that a lot more quality work could have been found in such a contest. Is it because some just read the first story that appears on the page and don't bother with the rest?
---END QUOTATION---



Well, basically the literary contest is fundamentally flawed.

It's very easy to use multiple I.Ds to vote other peoples' stories down, which is why even 'Loss of Innocence' which was #1 before Good Trip didn't rate even a 7. As soon as someone decides they don't like you being at number 1 there's pretty much nothing you can do to retaliate, they usually keep voting you down until you're off the top ten ( at which point, strangely enough, the voting down stops ) so you're no longer considered a threat to them.

GSC has admitted that the whole thing just doesn't work, but are keeping it open so that exposure of Stalker stays high until the game is released, it has become little more than a P.R exercise, I'm sorry to say. If you comb through all of the stories I have little doubt you'll find some that deserve a place in the top 10 but are nowhere near it, that's why GSC are now reading all the stories themselves and making the final decisions based on their own personal judgements.

It's a shame it all went pear-shaped, but just goes to show that if you give people anonymity and enough opportunity they'll just see how much they can get away with.
  01:54:58  29 January 2004
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johnadaniels
Excuse me, was that your gun?
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On forum: 12/02/2002
Messages: 249

---QUOTATION---
Top Stories Ratings
that's why GSC are now reading all the stories themselves and making the final decisions based on their own personal judgements.
(
---END QUOTATION---




Where did you hear that? or did you make it up
  11:54:45  29 January 2004
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Ian_C
The man lacking a plan
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On forum: 08/02/2003
Messages: 273

---QUOTATION---
Top Stories Ratings
that's why GSC are now reading all the stories themselves and making the final decisions based on their own personal judgements.
(


Where did you hear that? or did you make it up
---END QUOTATION---



Lol! I only create fiction in my stories sir.

GSC have admitted that they are reading all of the stories, so the logical conclusion is that when the competition finishes they'll examine the top 10 and, if there are some entries that plainly don't deserve to be there, exercise their own judgement. It wouldn't reflect well on them to have 10 winners on the CD which were sub-par, yet the contest still remains open to keep exposure of Stalker alive, hence my earlier comments.
  01:41:15  30 January 2004
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johnadaniels
Excuse me, was that your gun?
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On forum: 12/02/2002
 

Message edited by:
johnadaniels
01/30/2004 1:42:13
Messages: 249

---QUOTATION---
GSC have admitted that they are reading all of the stories, so the logical conclusion is that when the competition finishes.
---END QUOTATION---



So GSC did not actualy say they were going to judge the contest?

I say this because when you submit your story it says that it will be judged by the
votes receives by the public. No where does it say GSC is going to judge.
  06:18:55  30 January 2004
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Doc Jones
Older than before
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On forum: 10/09/2003
Messages: 2008

---QUOTATION---
GSC have admitted that they are reading all of the stories, so the logical conclusion is that when the competition finishes.

So GSC did not actualy say they were going to judge the contest?

I say this because when you submit your story it says that it will be judged by the
votes receives by the public. No where does it say GSC is going to judge.
---END QUOTATION---



Extreme example:

Debbie Does the Zone

Somehow the author is able by some means to get it into the top ten via friends, hacking or both. I think GSC would make an executive cut.
  12:21:23  30 January 2004
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Ian_C
The man lacking a plan
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On forum: 08/02/2003
Messages: 273

---QUOTATION---

I say this because when you submit your story it says that it will be judged by the
votes receives by the public. No where does it say GSC is going to judge.
---END QUOTATION---



Well, they wouldn't would they? They only admitted as much on this forum after some pressure, as they knew that they were placating a small bunch of people and, as a whole, the message wouldn't get out to everyone. If your aim is to use the Literary Contest to generate publicity, why would you come straight out announce that all votes are superflous?

I do agree with Doc Jones tho, they will most likely use this authority in extreme examples of obvious cheating, although it would be a shame to see some of the more bland examples earn a place just because there was nothing really wrong about them as opposed to them actually being good.
  14:06:06  30 January 2004
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Nauris Krauze
(Novice)
 
On forum: 01/09/2003
Messages: 44
oh.. I had been absent for some time (quite a long time, actually). Top10 looks like a battlefield now. Over 2500 votes for some of them, from comments it seems like people were voting either 1 or 10...

Voting should require voters being logged in. Maybe using the same account as these forums, to not overcomplicate things. Of course, its possible to use dummy accounts, but at least thats more hassle.

But hey, I should keep quiet, i made it to top10. My preciousss 15 minutes of fame... until some kid will buy 20 seats in ecafe for 5 min ..ehm.
  10:42:57  31 January 2004
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Amoki
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On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
Top Stories Ratings
that's why GSC are now reading all the stories themselves and making the final decisions based on their own personal judgements.
(


Where did you hear that? or did you make it up
---END QUOTATION---



Says ME! AMOKI! Atem mailed me and told me so about two months ago. Oh, wait- you were so mad about no one taking care of your work then at the moment... too bad.
  10:46:56  31 January 2004
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Amoki
back with a vengeance
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On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
GSC have admitted that they are reading all of the stories, so the logical conclusion is that when the competition finishes.

So GSC did not actualy say they were going to judge the contest?

I say this because when you submit your story it says that it will be judged by the
votes receives by the public. No where does it say GSC is going to judge.

Extreme example:

Debbie Does the Zone

Somehow the author is able by some means to get it into the top ten via friends, hacking or both. I think GSC would make an executive cut.
---END QUOTATION---



Nope. They do it by changing their IPs- just type winipcfg on "Run" in your windows and reset your IP. THat's it. Look, I know the way to do it, doen't meant I use it (well, at least after I repent..., which was about two years ago, 5 months after my first entry, I think...)
  10:55:39  31 January 2004
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Amoki
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On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
oh.. I had been absent for some time (quite a long time, actually). Top10 looks like a battlefield now. Over 2500 votes for some of them, from comments it seems like people were voting either 1 or 10...

Voting should require voters being logged in. Maybe using the same account as these forums, to not overcomplicate things. Of course, its possible to use dummy accounts, but at least thats more hassle.

But hey, I should keep quiet, i made it to top10. My preciousss 15 minutes of fame... until some kid will buy 20 seats in ecafe for 5 min ..ehm.
---END QUOTATION---



"Illusions,Mr Anderson. Those are illusions, created by the feeble human intellect, trying to justify an existence without meaning or purpose, although.... although only the human mind can come out with somethign as insepid as... stalker?"

Look, sport, don't be disillusioned with the contest rating system. Real good stories can take the stand of time, not the stand of the feeble human voters...

To say honestly, I have not find any stories that have any resemblance to quality, which are the case with almost 3/4 of the contest entry. Only you yourself knows if your story really worth the top ten.
  11:07:31  31 January 2004
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Amoki
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On forum: 07/31/2003
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Damn it. Damnit. Damn it.

Quite an odd experience to begin my post like this, but ,damn it, not much has change with the stories of STALKER since I left Malaysia to be in New Zealand, which hopefully I can become a P.R here, because the country is sooooo sweet that I don't want to leave. Have problem only with the accent though...

But, Damnit, when I scroll through the new arrivals at the stalker webpage, the contest entrees was worthless as a 100-yen note in America. Most stories are short and looked as if the owners were doing them in such a hurry that it looked like my work done in 3.00 o'clock in the morning. NO character, simple plot, lousy theme, short length, no effort... And to note that I only scroll thoguh instead of giving the stories a good look. Obviously the writers wanted to win the prize with cheap shots. Not trying to be proud here, but I regarded them as inferior with my "Prey of one", and not to mention those works done by Ian C and Midnight Ramblers and Ruintained and Goodspeed and ... the lists is not that long, really.

I am soooo sick and tired of the stories in the contest, so I might as well stay quiet and only comment when asked or when I see anything that is good enough for me to type.
  19:10:49  31 January 2004
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Nauris Krauze
(Novice)
 
On forum: 01/09/2003
Messages: 44

---QUOTATION---
Damn it. Damnit. Damn it.


---END QUOTATION---



Hehe, take it easy, sport

There`s no need to sound so disturbed - contest was not going to be anything more than collection of (hopefully) B class sotries, with (again, hopefully) some interesting ideas, some interesting situations and maybe even one interesting character.
They are short? Well, its kinda perfect for web-format anyway. I still havent forced myself to read yours form A to Z. doesnt fit in 3 screens? People get tired.
And I prefer short ones anyway. Well, of course, my "Long Way Down the Hill" is short so I`m biased and proud of it.
(come to think of it, I truly believe it should be in the Hall of Fame10, although I havent read all the rest here.)

Lets face it - its a PR stunt and good in a sense that it at least tries to revive some creativity in potential customers. Any contest which doesnt consist of question and three answer options is a good thing (shut up, MTV!)

If there will be three stories middle level sci-fi magazine worth, I`d call it a success. Those authors you think of as unworthy, at least will have had tried to create something (maybe for the first time in their life), instead of simply consuming without a thought.
  20:21:56  31 January 2004
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Amoki
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On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
Damn it. Damnit. Damn it.



Hehe, take it easy, sport

There`s no need to sound so disturbed - contest was not going to be anything more than collection of (hopefully) B class sotries, with (again, hopefully) some interesting ideas, some interesting situations and maybe even one interesting character.
They are short? Well, its kinda perfect for web-format anyway. I still havent forced myself to read yours form A to Z. doesnt fit in 3 screens? People get tired.
And I prefer short ones anyway. Well, of course, my "Long Way Down the Hill" is short so I`m biased and proud of it.
(come to think of it, I truly believe it should be in the Hall of Fame10, although I havent read all the rest here.)

Lets face it - its a PR stunt and good in a sense that it at least tries to revive some creativity in potential customers. Any contest which doesnt consist of question and three answer options is a good thing (shut up, MTV!)

If there will be three stories middle level sci-fi magazine worth, I`d call it a success. Those authors you think of as unworthy, at least will have had tried to create something (maybe for the first time in their life), instead of simply consuming without a thought.
---END QUOTATION---



There is no substitute for quality, as there is no substitute for victory in war.
But the problem is, while you re writing, quality means length, and that really shows, you know. SO I am looking forward to look at yours, maybe you are those who can really put both length and quality really well.
  01:30:27  1 February 2004
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Nauris Krauze
(Novice)
 
On forum: 01/09/2003
Messages: 44

---QUOTATION---
SO I am looking forward to look at yours, maybe you are those who can really put both length and quality really well.
---END QUOTATION---



Well, I wouldnt be the one who would call himself a Writer, although I tend to fall into writing habbit time to time.


But regarding quality=length statement...well... its better than length=quality idea, anyway, I still think that you have to strip your work (be it story, painting or whatever) of everything that doesnt fuel the core of your work. Its painful, but it always pays off.

I read your piece today, while it stood out from all the rest quality-wise, I think you have problem with words: you cant stop them flowing out of your itchy-typing-fingers
In some places you could have done better by not overstating the obvious or repeating the message.

However, I do not consider myself being in position to criticize anyone`s writing, so take my words with pound of salt
  04:06:49  1 February 2004
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Amoki
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On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
SO I am looking forward to look at yours, maybe you are those who can really put both length and quality really well.

Well, I wouldnt be the one who would call himself a Writer, although I tend to fall into writing habbit time to time.


But regarding quality=length statement...well... its better than length=quality idea, anyway, I still think that you have to strip your work (be it story, painting or whatever) of everything that doesnt fuel the core of your work. Its painful, but it always pays off.

I read your piece today, while it stood out from all the rest quality-wise, I think you have problem with words: you cant stop them flowing out of your itchy-typing-fingers
In some places you could have done better by not overstating the obvious or repeating the message.

However, I do not consider myself being in position to criticize anyone`s writing, so take my words with pound of salt
---END QUOTATION---



Not actually true, my friend, although the piece was design to be standing out of the rest. For Part 1,2,3,4, they were rewrote once before they were typed. Which means: first process- write on paper; second process- rewrite on more paper; third process- type while rephrasing. The other two was a little bit off- there were finished in three weks time with just script and typing. To speak honestly, the finger isn't typing-itchy, they were typing-disgusted... So what I implied is that what you had seen are works that had been shrink in terms of words. (Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that I actually redid Part 1 and 2 because of the quality. What you had seen was the first prototypes, so sorry about that)

but thanks for reading. And please don't use the word criticize- the more correct term is 'comments' and 'reviewing', because none of us here is proffeisional enough to be critics.
  04:34:24  1 February 2004
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Amoki
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On forum: 07/31/2003
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I have gone through most of the stories- only a few really worth reading. Why? Not trying to repeat my words in my previous post, but they are done as if they were done for fun. ( Hitting myself in the head- 'Of course you idiot, people did it for fun!)

What I actually meant is that the writers put no effort in them. Lousy paragraphing, simple plot which had nothing more then death and killing. ANd while their marks in putting 'flower' sentence is probably good, that did not compensate to the fact that the work is still shoddy, jsut like how we chinese put it: 'putting a flower on a pile of dung'. My best guess is that they actually join the contest when GSC announced that the contest is closing, and they thought that putting out a work is better than. And it looked as if Goodspeed's thread to help people write better had tield no results at all.

Worst, they did not much of a research at all, a essential part of joining the contest. Most of the material is available right at the website, although some more need to be looked up in the Internet. This is a few flaws that make the joke of my day:
1) a OICW in the Zone. Wait- how did a $12,000 gun designed to be use with the Future Warrior and to be use with, if not mistaken, 1 in 8 soldier in the US Army end up in the Zone?
2) A FN2000 submachinegun. Submachinegun?

That's enough. So far, the only few I am waiting for is Ian C's THe difference between you and me, Part 3, Lukin's view.' and Midnight Rambler's work which he was working on before he went nuts ( Just an expression) but went back to work right after the short break. OF course, I am still waiting for miracles from teh new entrees.
  13:17:04  1 February 2004
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Killzig
(Novice)
 
On forum: 02/22/2003
Messages: 5
Seeing as you've gone through most of the stories would you mind posting your own personal top 10? (Just out of curiousity) ... Anyone else who's read the majority of these stories feel free to chime in as well.
  05:29:05  10 February 2004
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The Duke
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/20/2003
Messages: 6
So, the ratings won't be used at all? :/

My story is doing well, it would be a shame for it to not be considered despite it's standings. Though if the voting for other stories has been tampered with, they should be considered as well.

On a related note: Does anyone know how many winners there will actually be?
  14:41:20  10 February 2004
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Ian_C
The man lacking a plan
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On forum: 08/02/2003
Messages: 273

---QUOTATION---
So, the ratings won't be used at all? :/

My story is doing well, it would be a shame for it to not be considered despite it's standings. Though if the voting for other stories has been tampered with, they should be considered as well.

On a related note: Does anyone know how many winners there will actually be?
---END QUOTATION---



Don't worry Duke, I'm sure the ratings will be taken into consideration, I think it's more that GSC will retain the final power of decision if there are stories in the top 10 that are so awful they plainly don't belong there ( of course I can only speculate about this )

There will be ten winners, which was originally the function of the top 10 before it all went a bit skewed.
  01:53:47  11 February 2004
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johnadaniels
Excuse me, was that your gun?
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On forum: 12/02/2002
Messages: 249

---QUOTATION---
So, the ratings won't be used at all? :/


---END QUOTATION---




The rating system still stands. No one here has shown any proof other wise.
  10:40:27  11 February 2004
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[GSC]pepsi_1205
Bloody Murderator
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On forum: 02/19/2002
Messages: 600

---QUOTATION---
So, the ratings won't be used at all? :/
The rating system still stands. No one here has shown any proof other wise.
---END QUOTATION---


Here is the proof then. The votes will be discarded and not taken into account when selecting winners.
  14:55:47  11 February 2004
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The Duke
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/20/2003
 

Message edited by:
The Duke
02/11/2004 15:40:16
Messages: 6

---QUOTATION---
So, the ratings won't be used at all? :/
The rating system still stands. No one here has shown any proof other wise.
Here is the proof then. The votes will be discarded and not taken into account when selecting winners.
---END QUOTATION---



Well, that's a helluva thing.

Surely the top 10 are fairly accurate, if perhaps not the exact order thereof?
  16:31:22  11 February 2004
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Ian_C
The man lacking a plan
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On forum: 08/02/2003
Messages: 273

---QUOTATION---


Well, that's a helluva thing.

Surely the top 10 are fairly accurate, if perhaps not the exact order thereof?
---END QUOTATION---



There's absolutly no way of telling though, so to be fair to every entrant there must be a 'clean slate' which totally bypasses all the unseen manipulations and possiblities of cheaters being awarded for their actions.

I appreciate your stance, you're proud that your story is in the top 10 and you want to protect that, but I firmly believe that the scrapping of the rating system will not work against the stories which have had visible time and effort invested in them. It almost certainly shouldn't have worked out this way, I loved the idea of a reader voted top 10, but now GSC are doing the only thing that they can to ensure a fair contest, even if it does end up upsetting people who ask 'well, what the hell was all the voting for anyway?'.
  17:01:33  11 February 2004
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Chickennog
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On forum: 08/26/2003
Messages: 157
its very good tah t gsc is taking it into there own hands. Thanks pepsi.
  22:30:18  11 February 2004
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The Duke
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/20/2003
 

Message edited by:
The Duke
02/11/2004 22:30:46
Messages: 6

---QUOTATION---


Well, that's a helluva thing.

Surely the top 10 are fairly accurate, if perhaps not the exact order thereof?

There's absolutly no way of telling though, so to be fair to every entrant there must be a 'clean slate' which totally bypasses all the unseen manipulations and possiblities of cheaters being awarded for their actions.

---END QUOTATION---



Yep, I can deifnately see where you are coming from, and it probably is the best way for everyone to get a fair shot.

Dissapointing though, that people would try to manipulate the vote. I suppose you can never assume people will act in a responsible manner.
  00:01:33  12 February 2004
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johnadaniels
Excuse me, was that your gun?
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 12/02/2002
Messages: 249

---QUOTATION---
So, the ratings won't be used at all? :/
The rating system still stands. No one here has shown any proof other wise.
Here is the proof then. The votes will be discarded and not taken into account when selecting winners.
---END QUOTATION---




That is good news pepsi A lot of stories that have been submited have not been posted yet so they would not have very long to be voted on.
Great news pepsi, thanks again.
  02:21:53  12 February 2004
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serp
whats this?
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On forum: 02/27/2003
 

Message edited by:
serp
02/12/2004 2:22:10
Messages: 621
so who's going to take all that time reading and analyzing ALL of those stories?? I guess i could try and bribe my english teacher to do it , she likes dark sad stories.
  03:08:37  12 February 2004
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Chansd5
(Senior)
 
On forum: 11/26/2003
Messages: 124

---QUOTATION---
So, the ratings won't be used at all? :/
The rating system still stands. No one here has shown any proof other wise.
Here is the proof then. The votes will be discarded and not taken into account when selecting winners.


That is good news pepsi A lot of stories that have been submited have not been posted yet so they would not have very long to be voted on.
Great news pepsi, thanks again.
---END QUOTATION---



Yeah! I been checking the stories everyday to see if my mid december sent story has been posted yet. Now I know that my story will be fairly counted in the contest if GSC reads all of them themselves.
  03:38:31  13 February 2004
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Amoki
back with a vengeance
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
So, the ratings won't be used at all? :/
The rating system still stands. No one here has shown any proof other wise.
Here is the proof then. The votes will be discarded and not taken into account when selecting winners.

Well, that's a helluva thing.

Surely the top 10 are fairly accurate, if perhaps not the exact order thereof?
---END QUOTATION---



no, it is not when you have read all the 120 entrees, something that I am working on it now.
  03:57:36  13 February 2004
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Amoki
back with a vengeance
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
So, the ratings won't be used at all? :/
The rating system still stands. No one here has shown any proof other wise.
Here is the proof then. The votes will be discarded and not taken into account when selecting winners.


That is good news pepsi A lot of stories that have been submited have not been posted yet so they would not have very long to be voted on.
Great news pepsi, thanks again.
---END QUOTATION---



Yah, thanks from me too, Pepsi (perhaps now I supported pepsi more then cola ) Just too bad I can only give you my thanks at a friday.
 
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