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Of smart terrains, space restrictors and gulags

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  22:14:40  14 December 2013
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gannebamm
has abondened XRay and uses Unity3D now
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/02/2007
Messages: 1077

---QUOTATION---
@all

hey guys, i just wanted to ask a related question:

how do you extend the distance that monsters can wander from their smart terrains (or gulags, or whatever)?

cheers in advance,

yours.
---END QUOTATION---



Hi, a bit late but who cares!

There are distance values in some config files you could increase AND this is more likely you have some space restrictors which prevent your aLife creature from going any further (in and out restrictors)

cheers, gbamm
  10:51:25  17 November 2012
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Storm Shadow
A machine, a Shadow Machine.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 11/14/2007
Messages: 1430
@all

hey guys, i just wanted to ask a related question:

how do you extend the distance that monsters can wander from their smart terrains (or gulags, or whatever)?

cheers in advance,

yours.
  13:41:57  29 October 2012
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Muad'Dib
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 01/24/2011
Messages: 421
Hey,

I used ZRP 1.05 R10, the last version is too big for me.
And i used the Natvac respawn population manager too.

About "You have to change the values in that config/script file to get them properly executed."
I'll look at this.
Thanks you again.

Now, i'm working on path_walk and path_look with the level_editor. I need to study the flag system.
  23:55:05  28 October 2012
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gannebamm
has abondened XRay and uses Unity3D now
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/02/2007
Messages: 1077
I pop in again to add:
As NatVac with the help of some others has discovered are the vanilla respawners badly coded which leads to way to fast spawned npcs/mutants (some timer issue in there). So i would recomenend you to use latest version of ZRP in which this was issue deadled with (iirc again - i haven´t followed all this for quite a time!)
  17:07:25  27 October 2012
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gannebamm
has abondened XRay and uses Unity3D now
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/02/2007
Messages: 1077

---QUOTATION---
Yes, I changed the check npc function in all gulag scripts files.
And no, i'm not working on a big mod with more levels. Now, i'm only working on vanilla levels (this is only a test, by curiosity, to understand the engine).

But i activated all smarties in all.spawn, i deleted all condition for do it.
So, i increased quickly the free job places.

In consequence, you're right. As i have a lot of empty smarties, the respawn work continuous and npc walk to join empty smart terrains.


There were 3 or 4 like seldom,medium,fast or so. I thought these are part of customData in all.spawn but the smartterrain entries in modwiki do not have those and i do not have a decompiled all.spawn currently (or a all.spawn in not binary format, i dont think that this would be called decompiled but anyway)

custom_data = <<END
[smart_terrain]
;cond = {-agroprom_military_case_done}
type = esc_flesh_1
capacity = 2
stay = long
END

It's "stay" parameter.
With 3 values. quick/medium/long.

So, with use stay = long for each smart_terrain, a very low going_speed value in m_stalker.ltx, and maybe too a low respawn frequenty, it could balance it.
---END QUOTATION---


"stay = long" +
"It's "stay" parameter.
With 3 values. quick/medium/long. "
no since in vanilla all those values had a way to high number in some config file or script file i can not recall currently. You have to change the values in that config/script file to get them properly executed.
  10:48:29  27 October 2012
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Muad'Dib
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 01/24/2011
Messages: 421
Yes, I changed the check npc function in all gulag scripts files.
And no, i'm not working on a big mod with more levels. Now, i'm only working on vanilla levels (this is only a test, by curiosity, to understand the engine).

But i activated all smarties in all.spawn, i deleted all condition for do it.
So, i increased quickly the free job places.

In consequence, you're right. As i have a lot of empty smarties, the respawn work continuous and npc walk to join empty smart terrains.



---QUOTATION---
There were 3 or 4 like seldom,medium,fast or so. I thought these are part of customData in all.spawn but the smartterrain entries in modwiki do not have those and i do not have a decompiled all.spawn currently (or a all.spawn in not binary format, i dont think that this would be called decompiled but anyway)
---END QUOTATION---



custom_data = <<END
[smart_terrain]
;cond = {-agroprom_military_case_done}
type = esc_flesh_1
capacity = 2
stay = long
END

It's "stay" parameter.
With 3 values. quick/medium/long.

So, with use stay = long for each smart_terrain, a very low going_speed value in m_stalker.ltx, and maybe too a low respawn frequenty, it could balance it.
  00:07:59  27 October 2012
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gannebamm
has abondened XRay and uses Unity3D now
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/02/2007
 

Message edited by:
gannebamm
10/27/2012 0:24:14
Messages: 1077

---QUOTATION---
Thanks gannebamm,

And sorry if you repeat again the same answer.
I understand this point, i know it in french forum.

If i understand, it's a balance between the quantity/speed of respawn (so, the quantity of each communities npc) and the disponibility of each smarties.

I think that was a long work to equilibrate this system.

---QUOTATION---

Bangalore quoted gannebamm, and what gannebamm said is what you should be thinking about.
---END QUOTATION---

As i'm the disciple of Bangalore, you're my "Maître à penser" by extension.
---END QUOTATION---


i´ve read your post once more. I have missed that you actually altered every gulag.script to return jobs for every faction. I am not shure how the gulag-switching* is computed in vanilla and if it is used at all but maybe thats whats happening at your game. And at the very begining of a game in stalker there are much less npcs than jobs in the gameworld (even in vanilla). So the zone gets populated slowly (or fast depends on how much you change the level and reload .> ask NatVac about that or see ZRPs changelog ) and the new spawned npcs travel to their jobs. Since escape has the military respawn it spits out those dozens of mil-stalkers who travel to whatever job they were assigned to. If you would start in bar level there would be dozens of dutiers travelling around. From the pictures i guess you use a quite huge gameworld with more than the vanilla levels? And most of these new levels are setup with gulags but nearly no hardspawned stalkers in all.spawn (like nimble or fox or bes and the loners at loner camp in escape all these are "hardspawned" through all.spawn entries).

*gulag-switch: I can not find it in modwiki but i know theire were values like job idle or something somewhere which determine (or i think in vanilla SHOULD determine but do not do it since they all are set to infinite) how long a (generic)stalker stays at a job. There were 3 or 4 like seldom,medium,fast or so. I thought these are part of customData in all.spawn but the smartterrain entries in modwiki do not have those and i do not have a decompiled all.spawn currently (or a all.spawn in not binary format, i dont think that this would be called decompiled but anyway)


:::
@ NatVac: Are you 100% shure about the se_respawn.script table? Since i think we had to tinker with that table for aliVe long long long ago. In fact it is quite easy to test. Set everything to zero ("0" and look if respawns happen - if they do its crap but if not it gets read from somewhere. Just because a function which is written in LUA isnt called by LUA-part of the game it has not to be disabled does it? I mean the LUA part is called by the compiled c++ core and loaded into the game. You could put a debug statement in there to check that. Isnt LUA even capable to put a function call into a table? It will likely crash but maybe you could put in a simple print to console debug function in these table to check if it gets called - same with statistics block. But you have allready done such stuff iirc cause you had this interesting gamedata without all those not needed functions and LUA code which loads ten times faster than vanilla...

btw. has anybody a copy of aliVe? Links are dead...
  23:31:39  26 October 2012
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Muad'Dib
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 01/24/2011
Messages: 421
Thanks gannebamm,

And sorry if you repeat again the same answer.
I understand this point, i know it in french forum.

If i understand, it's a balance between the quantity/speed of respawn (so, the quantity of each communities npc) and the disponibility of each smarties.

I think that was a long work to equilibrate this system.

---QUOTATION---

Bangalore quoted gannebamm, and what gannebamm said is what you should be thinking about.
---END QUOTATION---

As i'm the disciple of Bangalore, you're my "Maître à penser" by extension.
  22:45:15  26 October 2012
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gannebamm
has abondened XRay and uses Unity3D now
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/02/2007
 

Message edited by:
gannebamm
10/26/2012 22:48:19
Messages: 1077

---QUOTATION---
Hello guys,

I'm back with new question.

So, i tested a little thing. I opened all gulag_xxx.script and i changed the communities like this:

function checkStalker(npc_community, gulag_type, npc_rank, se_obj)
if gulag_type == "esc_fabrika_bandit" then
return npc_community == "dolg"
or npc_community == "bandit"
or npc_community == "freedom"
or npc_community == "killer"
or npc_community == "military"
or npc_community == "ecolog"
or npc_community == "dark_stalker"
or npc_community == "sin"
or npc_community == "monolith"
or npc_community == "stalker"
end
end

function checkMonster(npc_community, gulag_type)

if gulag_type == "esc_dogs_to_fox" then
npc_community == "boar"
or npc_community == "dog"
or npc_community == "flesh"
or npc_community == "cat"
or npc_community == "tushkano"
or npc_community == "pseudodog"
end
end


The effect in game is very strange. As i see, npc and mutants doesn't use smarties.

About mutant, this way create more "life".

But human don't use smarties and travel between them:

Wolf and rookies camp guys was going to garbage.
Nimble and bandits walked in escape and was killed by mutants.

And the must thing was a big troop of military npc in escape.

[link]http://uppix.net/d/2/d/c4c9fd44713893397bc0cb67e9a77.jpg[/link]
[link]http://uppix.net/9/6/6/938a763fcbb0f3438cc36547cda58.jpg[/link]
[link]http://uppix.net/0/0/1/c7ae40e167d5e668ce47e2a5d220d.jpg[/link]

It's as the npc go to another smarties and don't take the time to rest at the same place. They're moving all time.

It's not as with general_lager and general_lair.

So, someone have a explanation?
How increase the travel time between two smarties or increase the time during which the npc rest in the same smarties?

It's only by curiosity.
---END QUOTATION---


these functions determine which types/factions can take jobs in that particular smartterrain/gulag. If you put in those various "or" statements it will return "true" for every listed faction/type so they could pick a job there.
I sometimes feel like describing the same stuff over and over again... not your fault!
iirc (which does not have to be since i am out of this since years!) x-ray goes like this:
- load smartterrains/gulags
- determine the jobs there
- fetch jobs for all.spawned characters (if they are not hardcoded anyway)

now the interesting part:
- check respawners for idle
- - if not in idle anymore AND there are possible jobs for the to respawn things (factionmembers/creaturetypes) spawn them and fetch those jobs

So i bet that the respawners for military are fast and since those smartterrains are at escape where the military respawner is near to they will get spammed by those. Other thing is that smartterrains are restricted by both gulag.scripts and the custom data block in all.spawn. I am not shure what restricion will win, maybe both will work together. So you maybe get the checkStalker() for respawners and job binding but the latter will get prevented by the factioninfo in all.spawn (which is just bandits/loner (or is the loner one a second smarty?) in vanilla for fabrica_bandit iirc).

If you want that different factions can take jobs from those smartterrains you should grab a copy of aliVe and look how we made it. iirc we changed the gulag.scripts plus the entries in all.spawn plus a hell of a lot of tinkering in se_respawn and other ltxes to not spam everything with stalkers/mutants.



---QUOTATION---

Bangalore quoted gannebamm, and what gannebamm said is what you should be thinking about.
---END QUOTATION---


  19:29:26  26 October 2012
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Muad'Dib
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 01/24/2011
Messages: 421
Hello guys,

I'm back with new question.

So, i tested a little thing. I opened all gulag_xxx.script and i changed the communities like this:

function checkStalker(npc_community, gulag_type, npc_rank, se_obj)
if gulag_type == "esc_fabrika_bandit" then
return npc_community == "dolg"
or npc_community == "bandit"
or npc_community == "freedom"
or npc_community == "killer"
or npc_community == "military"
or npc_community == "ecolog"
or npc_community == "dark_stalker"
or npc_community == "sin"
or npc_community == "monolith"
or npc_community == "stalker"
end
end

function checkMonster(npc_community, gulag_type)

if gulag_type == "esc_dogs_to_fox" then
npc_community == "boar"
or npc_community == "dog"
or npc_community == "flesh"
or npc_community == "cat"
or npc_community == "tushkano"
or npc_community == "pseudodog"
end
end


The effect in game is very strange. As i see, npc and mutants doesn't use smarties.

About mutant, this way create more "life".

But human don't use smarties and travel between them:

Wolf and rookies camp guys was going to garbage.
Nimble and bandits walked in escape and was killed by mutants.

And the must thing was a big troop of military npc in escape.

[link]http://uppix.net/d/2/d/c4c9fd44713893397bc0cb67e9a77.jpg[/link]
[link]http://uppix.net/9/6/6/938a763fcbb0f3438cc36547cda58.jpg[/link]
[link]http://uppix.net/0/0/1/c7ae40e167d5e668ce47e2a5d220d.jpg[/link]

It's as the npc go to another smarties and don't take the time to rest at the same place. They're moving all time.

It's not as with general_lager and general_lair.

So, someone have a explanation?
How increase the travel time between two smarties or increase the time during which the npc rest in the same smarties?

It's only by curiosity.
 
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