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Valid forms of critique

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  12:44:43  15 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 06/04/2003
 

Message edited by:
Fux0r666
12/15/2005 12:46:17
Messages: 1927

---QUOTATION---
And no, it's an issue of your ego, not etiquette or of being an ass.

Aha, that explains it. So boldly grunting about the length of his story is considered a valid form of informative critique, but when someone asks that person to keep that kind of critique at a minimum (because, frankly, it seemed no more than a mindless grunt), it is them having an arrogant attitude? Ego? Selfishness? Reread that comment and imagine yourself to be on the receiving end. Who really has the biggest ego here? Just marching over Siro's story and moaning about its length.

---END QUOTATION---



I am not here to critique the story, just to partake in the discussion about critiquing. A meta-critique, if you will.

I put much of my time into all sorts of projects that are open for the criticism of the general public. I've been on the receiving end of worse. It's best just to see if there's anything valuable in there and shovel the rest off like so much oafel.


---QUOTATION---

When you write a comment for the story, what will it contribute? Will the writer actually gain anything from it? How could anyone possibly judge a story without even having read the actual story?

---END QUOTATION---



Simply, if the length of the story is repulsive to some people, the length of the story, and comments thereon, are fair game.


---QUOTATION---

Next time you feel like writing something informative, Robertino_lt, try to consider how much it will contribute. If anything. If there's no contribution, your message should be labeled as 'spam' and be deleted as soon as possible. Keep in mind that the literary contest is the most 'serious' forum under STALKER, and comments like that aren't appreciated here. But then again, Siro should have posted this story in the right section, then Robertino's comment probably never would have been posted either. So, I guess fux0r has a valid point when it comes to that matter. The offtopic forum hasn't exactly been a very serious forum anyway, hasn't it?
---END QUOTATION---



I'd imagine that no comment short of a pat on the back would be well received. Let me reitterate that a critique isn't usually done for the benefit of the writer. It's such a strange situation to have a writer start a thread and ask for criticisms from random people. For the above, then, let's make it clear that what you are after is _help writing your stories_, and that serious criticism of any kind is not welcome so long as it isn't actually benefitting the writer... what you are looking for is the kind that is done with kidd gloves, and with a lollipop in hand, ready to offer.
  14:31:57  17 December 2005
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Amoki
back with a vengeance
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729
So basically you're saying that saying anything but the story is too long is just salad dressing? Because that's essentialyl what you're arguing. And to tell you the truth, that's like saying it's okay to call an African-American a "Black" or a "Negro" or even "nigger" in broad daylight just because that's what their skin colour is.

Forget being politically correct. Do you even know what polite means?
  12:40:00  18 December 2005
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Siro
Local Law-Enforcement
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 03/02/2005
Messages: 7378

---QUOTATION---
And no, it's an issue of your ego, not etiquette or of being an ass.

Aha, that explains it. So boldly grunting about the length of his story is considered a valid form of informative critique, but when someone asks that person to keep that kind of critique at a minimum (because, frankly, it seemed no more than a mindless grunt), it is them having an arrogant attitude? Ego? Selfishness? Reread that comment and imagine yourself to be on the receiving end. Who really has the biggest ego here? Just marching over Siro's story and moaning about its length.

When you write a comment for the story, what will it contribute? Will the writer actually gain anything from it? How could anyone possibly judge a story without even having read the actual story?

Next time you feel like writing something informative, Robertino_lt, try to consider how much it will contribute. If anything. If there's no contribution, your message should be labeled as 'spam' and be deleted as soon as possible. Keep in mind that the literary contest is the most 'serious' forum under STALKER, and comments like that aren't appreciated here. But then again, Siro should have posted this story in the right section, then Robertino's comment probably never would have been posted either. So, I guess fux0r has a valid point when it comes to that matter. The offtopic forum hasn't exactly been a very serious forum anyway, hasn't it?
---END QUOTATION---



Also, as specifically stated by Don Reba, if your post does not contribute anything whatsoever, it is spam. If your posts go off topic from the thread, it is spam.

These statements are not just Don Reba's opinions, they are the rules of the forum. Moderators, regardless of what section, have to enforce these rules. By not moving this discussion into a another thread, you are not enforcing the rules, Amoki. I have asked nicely that you keep only critiques on my thread. Please do not be biased against me by allowing this to continue on my thread.

The Literary Contest forum is a serious one, not one for flames and arguments like you're used to, Fux0r. When you post your own story, how would you like it if people start bashing it for no reason whatsoever?

Comments like "It's too long! It's boring! It's stupid! It does not make sense! You suck!" With no explanation whatsoever is basically what you are defending. This section of the forum is for stories, CRITIQUES, and other topics including literature.
  20:44:51  18 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 06/04/2003
Messages: 1927

---QUOTATION---
So basically you're saying that saying anything but the story is too long is just salad dressing? Because that's essentialyl what you're arguing. And to tell you the truth, that's like saying it's okay to call an African-American a "Black" or a "Negro" or even "nigger" in broad daylight just because that's what their skin colour is.

Forget being politically correct. Do you even know what polite means?
---END QUOTATION---



Amoki:

No, I'm not arguing it's salad dressing. Are you even listening? I said it's meaningful commentary that should be taken in along with all of the other comments and critiques that the writer receives- not just the ones he or she wants to hear. Whether or not they should be taken in to account for future works or revisions of the writer's present work depend on the writer's aims. That is up to the writer to decide. The big give away on that, asside from everything else I wrote, was the part about how everyone's opinions are valid, but it's up to the writer to decide how to appropriate them.

I don't think that you can adequately support the premise that calling Siro's story too long alludes is the same sort of rudeness or hatred that would inspire broad-daylight racial slurrs. That's an incredibly ludicrous argument and it certainly does not bother me one iota to say so. Oh Amoki, these attempts are so very quaint, and I love you for it, but seriously... one thing is bothering me. I don't know if they are attempts to blindly attack my argument by throwing anything you have on hand at it, or if it is just a vain attempt to understand it. Either way, I think that it would benefit both of us if you were to read what I have to say carefully and try to take into account ALL of the previous posts I've done on the subject, not just cherry pick one and try to crack it open.

Siro:

I know, man. I'm sorry. I think this thing was truly mishandled by the moderator of this board. I was the first to suggest that spamming the hell out of the thread for a work of art that seriously must have took ages of blood, sweat and tears to weave together was way out of line. I think that this moderator was just taking the opportunity to have it on with me, but that's just between you and me. I seriously don't see the reason why this could not have gone on in another thread. I didn't expect the conversation to go on this long. I don't think this rather impotent board engine supports topic splitting, so I'll start another topic and c/p the last correspondance between amoki and I into the first post.

Watch Amoki consider this cross-posting
  13:54:27  19 December 2005
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Amoki
back with a vengeance
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 07/31/2003
 

Message edited by:
Amoki
12/19/2005 13:58:26
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
And no, it's an issue of your ego, not etiquette or of being an ass.

Aha, that explains it. So boldly grunting about the length of his story is considered a valid form of informative critique, but when someone asks that person to keep that kind of critique at a minimum (because, frankly, it seemed no more than a mindless grunt), it is them having an arrogant attitude? Ego? Selfishness? Reread that comment and imagine yourself to be on the receiving end. Who really has the biggest ego here? Just marching over Siro's story and moaning about its length.

When you write a comment for the story, what will it contribute? Will the writer actually gain anything from it? How could anyone possibly judge a story without even having read the actual story?

Next time you feel like writing something informative, Robertino_lt, try to consider how much it will contribute. If anything. If there's no contribution, your message should be labeled as 'spam' and be deleted as soon as possible. Keep in mind that the literary contest is the most 'serious' forum under STALKER, and comments like that aren't appreciated here. But then again, Siro should have posted this story in the right section, then Robertino's comment probably never would have been posted either. So, I guess fux0r has a valid point when it comes to that matter. The offtopic forum hasn't exactly been a very serious forum anyway, hasn't it?

Also, as specifically stated by Don Reba, if your post does not contribute anything whatsoever, it is spam. If your posts go off topic from the thread, it is spam.

These statements are not just Don Reba's opinions, they are the rules of the forum. Moderators, regardless of what section, have to enforce these rules. By not moving this discussion into a another thread, you are not enforcing the rules, Amoki. I have asked nicely that you keep only critiques on my thread. Please do not be biased against me by allowing this to continue on my thread.

The Literary Contest forum is a serious one, not one for flames and arguments like you're used to, Fux0r. When you post your own story, how would you like it if people start bashing it for no reason whatsoever?

Comments like "It's too long! It's boring! It's stupid! It does not make sense! You suck!" With no explanation whatsoever is basically what you are defending. This section of the forum is for stories, CRITIQUES, and other topics including literature.
---END QUOTATION---



Actually, Siro, I saw nothing wrong with it. Everything being discussed here is vaguely or clearly linked to Robertino_It's comment on your work (as being too long), hence it is not considered spam (at least by my standard). In fact, his comment sparked this whole debacle. One way or another it's related to this thread. It's not being mishandled. Mishandling occurs, say, I suddenly decided to talk about Smirnoff and everyone start to join in and I do nothing to stop the topic from going further. Now THAT's mishamdling.

Hey, at least you get lots of posts around here!

BTW - a useful critique is in here somewhere, pg3 I think.
  23:24:15  19 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 06/04/2003
 

Message edited by:
Fux0r666
12/19/2005 23:25:10
Messages: 1927
I like it how saying that a work is too long, which is a valid opinion, short and completely on topic, is viewed as 'rude'- but a complete turn of discussion away from the author's work is viewed as legitimate by everyone but the person who started the conversation and the actual starter of the thread.
  20:37:14  20 December 2005
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Don Reba
Bishop and Councilor of War
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11607
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