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Valid forms of critique

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  22:30:25  10 December 2005
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Ian_C
The man lacking a plan
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 08/02/2003
Messages: 273
Ah, I didn't pick up on that bit with the car, fair enough.

I try to be unbaised so it's good to hear you thought my critque was that way. I've been on too many writing messageboards in the past where some bitter person tears your work to shreds ( literally failing to list any good points whatsoever ) then says 'hope to read more from you soon!', it's hard enough for any writer to gain the courage to put work out there without knowing there are people with knives deliberatly waiting in the wings.

I'm from the U.K, and it doesn't actually rain here as much as everyone says.
  22:49:02  10 December 2005
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Siro
Local Law-Enforcement
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 03/02/2005
Messages: 7378
Yeah, I know what you mean. As you can tell from the posts by other people on this thread.

I agree with you, sometimes you need to read a story twice, or repeat some confusing parts to understand them, such as the scene you talked about.

And I am from Russia. It does not snow here all the time and there are no polar bears. Nice to meet you.
  05:07:11  11 December 2005
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Amoki
back with a vengeance
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 07/31/2003
 

Message edited by:
Amoki
12/11/2005 5:16:57
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
Ah, I didn't pick up on that bit with the car, fair enough.

I try to be unbaised so it's good to hear you thought my critque was that way. I've been on too many writing messageboards in the past where some bitter person tears your work to shreds ( literally failing to list any good points whatsoever ) then says 'hope to read more from you soon!', it's hard enough for any writer to gain the courage to put work out there without knowing there are people with knives deliberatly waiting in the wings.
---END QUOTATION---



Sounds a lot like me . Ian, not that most reviewers do it on purpose, when your reviewing a story after a hard day's work you don't tend to stay positive, let alone say positive words

BTW - you're promoted to become a permanent VIP by me. First thing is to further antagonize Siro, second is probably to recognize your contribution to the literary contest forum and also your seniority (if there is such a word that is)
  07:42:24  11 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 06/04/2003
Messages: 1927
Critical evaluation does not necessarily hint at bias. Moreover, being uncritical does not necessarily mean the reviewer is not biased. The hillarious thing is, that all of this moot, considering the critique of art is necessarily biased. The formal system of literary review necessitates the evaluation of a work based on certain biases. If you think it's possible to review fiction objectively with more depth than a spell checker, you're dreaming.
  08:39:09  11 December 2005
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Siro
Local Law-Enforcement
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 03/02/2005
Messages: 7378

---QUOTATION---
Ah, I didn't pick up on that bit with the car, fair enough.

I try to be unbaised so it's good to hear you thought my critque was that way. I've been on too many writing messageboards in the past where some bitter person tears your work to shreds ( literally failing to list any good points whatsoever ) then says 'hope to read more from you soon!', it's hard enough for any writer to gain the courage to put work out there without knowing there are people with knives deliberatly waiting in the wings.

Sounds a lot like me . Ian, not that most reviewers do it on purpose, when your reviewing a story after a hard day's work you don't tend to stay positive, let alone say positive words

BTW - you're promoted to become a permanent VIP by me. First thing is to further antagonize Siro, second is probably to recognize your contribution to the literary contest forum and also your seniority (if there is such a word that is)
---END QUOTATION---



Amoki, do you accept my entry into the contest?
  11:13:06  11 December 2005
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Amoki
back with a vengeance
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
Critical evaluation does not necessarily hint at bias. Moreover, being uncritical does not necessarily mean the reviewer is not biased. The hillarious thing is, that all of this moot, considering the critique of art is necessarily biased. The formal system of literary review necessitates the evaluation of a work based on certain biases. If you think it's possible to review fiction objectively with more depth than a spell checker, you're dreaming.
---END QUOTATION---



I don't think being biased is the problem at hand here (although you do score some points on it). Rather, it's of unconstructive (and potentially destructive) comments made by reviewers who tore up the hopeful work of a new-comer due to their own perception that they are better than everyone else. I did that a lot before given a harsh awakening by another forum member (he's gone now though). A critical review, by this forum's standard at least, means both good points and bad point are covered.
  15:11:19  11 December 2005
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Ian_C
The man lacking a plan
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 08/02/2003
Messages: 273

---QUOTATION---

I don't think being biased is the problem at hand here (although you do score some points on it). Rather, it's of unconstructive (and potentially destructive) comments made by reviewers who tore up the hopeful work of a new-comer due to their own perception that they are better than everyone else. I did that a lot before given a harsh awakening by another forum member (he's gone now though). A critical review, by this forum's standard at least, means both good points and bad point are covered.
---END QUOTATION---



Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.

Of course people's advice, even if well meaning, will be coloured by their own experiences and viewpoints ( that much should be taken as read, although we are veering dangerously close into a 'Mr Spock' style of analysis here that sucks the fun out of everything ), but to say that there is no such thing as destructive criticism is naive in the extreme.

As to other matters. VIP eh? I did wonder about that, does it grant me diplomatic immunity like the bad guy from Lethal Weapon 2?

I'll certainly be around here a bit more ( going to be posting up an alternate ending to 'the difference' soon ) and will comment on other people's work whenever I can, so hopefully that'll fufill this shiny title you've kindly awarded me.
  11:42:27  12 December 2005
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Arthur Gordon Pym
(Senior)
 
On forum: 07/28/2003
Messages: 138

---QUOTATION---

Not really a fair way of putting it, but the length can seem intimidating in this format.

---END QUOTATION---



Quote. Unfortunately i worte something too that's a little bit long but i think that sometimes it's nice to make something a little longer...too bad i am the first person that needs time to read such a long story of yours, i'll give it a shot tonight.
  01:29:26  13 December 2005
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 06/04/2003
 

Message edited by:
Fux0r666
12/13/2005 1:32:34
Messages: 1927

---QUOTATION---
Critical evaluation does not necessarily hint at bias. Moreover, being uncritical does not necessarily mean the reviewer is not biased. The hillarious thing is, that all of this moot, considering the critique of art is necessarily biased. The formal system of literary review necessitates the evaluation of a work based on certain biases. If you think it's possible to review fiction objectively with more depth than a spell checker, you're dreaming.

I don't think being biased is the problem at hand here (although you do score some points on it). Rather, it's of unconstructive (and potentially destructive) comments made by reviewers who tore up the hopeful work of a new-comer due to their own perception that they are better than everyone else. I did that a lot before given a harsh awakening by another forum member (he's gone now though). A critical review, by this forum's standard at least, means both good points and bad point are covered.
---END QUOTATION---



No, I think that this is where you're retreating to. Before there was discussion about how a review was biased because he preferred short stories. Now it's that he was too harsh, after the bias argument was rendered meaningless. Does the fact that he didn't sugar up his critique- by pouring over the thing looking for something to praise in order to render his comment more palatable- make it an invalid comment? LOL.

Anyways, it occurs to me that this thread is a little bit of a hijack. I should appologize, and invite this discussion on how comments should work on another thread.
  05:18:35  13 December 2005
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Amoki
back with a vengeance
(V.I.P.)

 

 
On forum: 07/31/2003
Messages: 1729

---QUOTATION---
Critical evaluation does not necessarily hint at bias. Moreover, being uncritical does not necessarily mean the reviewer is not biased. The hillarious thing is, that all of this moot, considering the critique of art is necessarily biased. The formal system of literary review necessitates the evaluation of a work based on certain biases. If you think it's possible to review fiction objectively with more depth than a spell checker, you're dreaming.

I don't think being biased is the problem at hand here (although you do score some points on it). Rather, it's of unconstructive (and potentially destructive) comments made by reviewers who tore up the hopeful work of a new-comer due to their own perception that they are better than everyone else. I did that a lot before given a harsh awakening by another forum member (he's gone now though). A critical review, by this forum's standard at least, means both good points and bad point are covered.

No, I think that this is where you're retreating to. Before there was discussion about how a review was biased because he preferred short stories. Now it's that he was too harsh, after the bias argument was rendered meaningless. Does the fact that he didn't sugar up his critique- by pouring over the thing looking for something to praise in order to render his comment more palatable- make it an invalid comment? LOL.
---END QUOTATION---



Sorry, don't quite get what you're saying.

Anyway, Don Reba is not in charge of this part of the forum in any way at all , and I'm declaring it's all right to discuss anything that's branching out from this thread.
 
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