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Pissed off SIN... Failed "Go deeper into the mines"

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  13:51:10  14 July 2014
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Steelyglint
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/06/2009
Messages: 5171
The Chinese were very good with them.

Confucius say God fights on side with heaviest artillery.



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  14:29:44  14 July 2014
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Joubarbe
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/02/2009
Messages: 93
You can't explain a game design flaw by some ethic or morality... This is wrong, you should be able to kill everyone without fearing a game break. That's why in Elder Scrolls, either you have invulnerable NPCs, or a message saying that you've killed an essential NPC and you've broken the world. The latter seems a good solution for STALKER.
  14:30:18  14 July 2014
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Charcharo
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175
Its basically me saying I dont agree

No need to tell me something I know. I am just trying to somehow express "Дървен философ " in English. Seems like I am not there yet.
  14:31:20  14 July 2014
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Charcharo
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175

---QUOTATION---
You can't explain a game design flaw by some ethic or morality... This is wrong, you should be able to kill everyone without fearing a game break. That's why in Elder Scrolls, either you have invulnerable NPCs, or a message saying that you've killed an essential NPC and you've broken the world. The latter seems a good solution for STALKER.
---END QUOTATION---



Previous STALKER games were like that too you know .
Just start killing Wolf, Stalkers, Clear Sky, Duty Freedom....

You aint gonna finish
  16:25:23  14 July 2014
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Steelyglint
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/06/2009
Messages: 5171

---QUOTATION---
You can't explain a game design flaw by some ethic or morality... This is wrong, you should be able to kill everyone without fearing a game break. That's why in Elder Scrolls, either you have invulnerable NPCs, or a message saying that you've killed an essential NPC and you've broken the world. The latter seems a good solution for STALKER.
---END QUOTATION---



Stalker games are different, to just about everything else there is.

Elder Scrolls is NOT a Stalker game.

Nothing further is needed.

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  19:14:53  14 July 2014
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memeics
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 07/07/2014
Messages: 280

---QUOTATION---
You can't explain a game design flaw by some ethic or morality... This is wrong, you should be able to kill everyone without fearing a game break. That's why in Elder Scrolls, either you have invulnerable NPCs, or a message saying that you've killed an essential NPC and you've broken the world. The latter seems a good solution for STALKER.
---END QUOTATION---



I completely disagree with that assessment, that you should be able to kill everyone and the game should still work. I agree that some form of freedom and options should be offered (like I said, the bug where you report back to Voronin should be fixed so you can continue the main quest while being enemy with Sin and have joined Duty) but that doesn't mean you can now go and kill _anyone_ and still hope to not break the game. That's unrealistic and just childish.

And yes, I'm aware of TES (and other games that don't let you do this) but that aspect of those games I dislike. The fact that either NPCs don't matter of it they matter then they are immortal. Both of these break immersion and I find it as a problem in TES, clearly you find that as a strength. Look at Morrowind, it allowed you to kill everyone (and break your game) but it displayed a warning when you killed an NPC involved in the main quest.

Have you ever played Fallout1/2? How did it work for you that instead of talking and doing their quests you started killing every NPC?

I much more prefer that choices have consequences, and choosing to kill some NPC is a heavy choice, this is not that you said to someone that you don't like them, you killed them. Obviously it should bear heavy consequences (at least from the faction that character belongs to). This is not an arcade shooter game, it's a simulation of the Zone environment as portrayed after a second explosion and the consequences of that. It should try to be as realistic as possible within the game's world and rules and clearly shooting NPCs should have consequences in that world.
  20:01:05  14 July 2014
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wrangler708
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/15/2007
Messages: 104

---QUOTATION---
You can't explain a game design flaw by some ethic or morality... This is wrong, you should be able to kill everyone without fearing a game break. That's why in Elder Scrolls, either you have invulnerable NPCs, or a message saying that you've killed an essential NPC and you've broken the world. The latter seems a good solution for STALKER.

I completely disagree with that assessment, that you should be able to kill everyone and the game should still work. I agree that some form of freedom and options should be offered (like I said, the bug where you report back to Voronin should be fixed so you can continue the main quest while being enemy with Sin and have joined Duty) but that doesn't mean you can now go and kill _anyone_ and still hope to not break the game. That's unrealistic and just childish.

And yes, I'm aware of TES (and other games that don't let you do this) but that aspect of those games I dislike. The fact that either NPCs don't matter of it they matter then they are immortal. Both of these break immersion and I find it as a problem in TES, clearly you find that as a strength. Look at Morrowind, it allowed you to kill everyone (and break your game) but it displayed a warning when you killed an NPC involved in the main quest.

Have you ever played Fallout1/2? How did it work for you that instead of talking and doing their quests you started killing every NPC?

I much more prefer that choices have consequences, and choosing to kill some NPC is a heavy choice, this is not that you said to someone that you don't like them, you killed them. Obviously it should bear heavy consequences (at least from the faction that character belongs to). This is not an arcade shooter game, it's a simulation of the Zone environment as portrayed after a second explosion and the consequences of that. It should try to be as realistic as possible within the game's world and rules and clearly shooting NPCs should have consequences in that world.
---END QUOTATION---


In principal, I also agree with everything you have said here.
There should be consequences and it is really not fun without them, to an extent. I say again, to an extent.
That early in the game, with no evidence to the contrary, it should not be possible to break the game. In fact, in this case, you are almost tempted into shooting these guys. Before this patch, they were even red to you and dressed like bandits. In this case I think it is too much. At least for the average guy who cannot live on the forums learning every idiosyncrasy or lore fact.

The other kicker is how far you can go before you realize your hosed.
Just ain't right. imho
  20:15:21  14 July 2014
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Kane4
"Order of the Liquidators" and Dez0wave Tester
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/17/2008
 

Message edited by:
Kane4
07/14/2014 20:15:49
Messages: 12654
I think this is what happens when you join Duty before going to Darkscape, but if you can manage to sneak in behind Veles and talk to him, you can still get him to give you the mission, after which you complete will make Sin yellow.
  20:18:37  14 July 2014
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wrangler708
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/15/2007
 

Message edited by:
wrangler708
07/14/2014 20:32:02
Messages: 104

---QUOTATION---
I think this is what happens when you join Duty before going to Darkscape, but if you can manage to sneak in behind Veles and talk to him, you can still get him to give you the mission, after which you complete will make Sin yellow.
---END QUOTATION---




Ahhhhh,

Now this is the kind of information I am looking for.
I am guessing it has to be one of the side entrances because if you proceed down the tunnel where you get knocked out it gives you a Game Over message?

Going to try right now!!!


EDIT: No go. You get knocked out no matter what entrance you take.

Only fix I could see is if there is a way to raise your status with SIN before you go to Darkscape.
  20:48:23  14 July 2014
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Steelyglint
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/06/2009
Messages: 5171

---QUOTATION---
Only fix I could see is if there is a way to raise your status with SIN before you go to Darkscape.
---END QUOTATION---



There is. Don't kill the ones in Cordon.


---QUOTATION---
In principal, I also agree with everything you have said here.
There should be consequences and it is really not fun without them, to an extent. I say again, to an extent.
That early in the game, with no evidence to the contrary, it should not be possible to break the game. In fact, in this case, you are almost tempted into shooting these guys. Before this patch, they were even red to you and dressed like bandits. In this case I think it is too much. At least for the average guy who cannot live on the forums learning every idiosyncrasy or lore fact.
---END QUOTATION---



Odd that you should so readily agree, as memeics has basically restated what I said that you found so much fault with.

There is no need to 'live on the forum' to pick up this information. It is right there in the game for you to find. Again, the easiest way to find it is to not kill the Sin in Cordon. I found that out in my first game, not here on the forum. Just another one of those idiosyncrasies you mentioned.

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