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Pissed off SIN... Failed "Go deeper into the mines"

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  01:25:03  14 July 2014
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Steelyglint
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/06/2009
Messages: 5171

---QUOTATION---
Ahh. Well. Should be a stronger message not to kill SIN or join Duty.
I know the Master Stalkers around here probably know all of this stuff but us regular Veterans need a little more guidance it would seem.

I really wish I had just stopped in the tunnel so I could still have that message that Petrenko sent me verbatim so I could relay it to you.

He sends me to Voronin specifically to join Duty. Like the game knew this could happen and seeing Voronin would start me on an alternate path.
---END QUOTATION---



I would think that is the point, and the way it was meant to be. If you mess up with Sin, joining Duty - now you've shown your true colours - is the only option left.

You can go through the game as a neutral loner, help Sin and still keep Duty as at least neutrals. Or you can opt to have no compassion for the damage done to the Sin, refuse to help them, and join Duty who hate them. Either path will work, or should. It is your ethical outlook that decides which path you take.

There is a similar choice offered in vanilla CoP. You can remain neutral or you can take the ethically-devoid path of joining the bandits.

.
  01:28:37  14 July 2014
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 28292
Pissed off SIN... Failed "Go deeper into the mines"

A good rule of thumb in LA is...

If an NPC is an enemy ( red ) and they don't try to kill you
then you should return the same courtesy. They may be
valuable at a later time. If an NPC is an enemy ( red )
and they try to kill you, you can defend yourself.
Be careful that their action is not based upon
you breaking their stated rules or that
you went somewhere that you
should have not. There
may always be some
consequences to
your actions.

TS
  01:35:16  14 July 2014
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burger
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 12/01/2008
 

Message edited by:
burger
07/14/2014 1:35:49
Messages: 1355

---QUOTATION---


Also, who is Ivancov? Voronin tells me I should go see him to get a good shooter but there is no mission.
---END QUOTATION---



I think hes on a roof in the bar area. There's someone on a roof (colonel inancov ?)that repairs weapons and stuff in the bar area after you talk to them.
  01:35:36  14 July 2014
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Steelyglint
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/06/2009
Messages: 5171

---QUOTATION---
@Steelyglint:
This is somehow getting a little bit...uhm...LOL?
You have to kill soldiers but why? They only do what their goverment wants them to do and they don't have any chance to change that. So this is really not ok. Why do you kill the dogs in game? They are not responsible for that what happend to them and if you were one of them you really would like some humen flesh...got it?
---END QUOTATION---



Completely. But if the soldiers are shooting at you, and the only way to make them stop is by shooting back, that's what you do. They decided to make an enemy of you - it wasn't your decision. And even though they are under orders, they still have the option to refuse those orders if they consider them wrong. It will, of course, mean a court martial and time in the glasshouse, but that is a result of a military/government with no ethics or humanity.

Seems none of the soldiers in the Zone (save one in Agroprom in vanilla SoC) has the courage of his convictions. They are all 'bulletheads' who have no minds of their own, or no morality, which just means they'd probably be criminals if they were civilians. Criminals are those in society who have a serious lack of morals and ethics, after all.

As to dogs, that's a bit silly. Unless you are suicidal and enjoy vast pain, you are not going to let a dog chew on you because it might be hungry. You shoot the things to prevent that. Same goes for any mutant.

.
  01:37:58  14 July 2014
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Steelyglint
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/06/2009
Messages: 5171

---QUOTATION---


Also, who is Ivancov? Voronin tells me I should go see him to get a good shooter but there is no mission.


I think hes on a roof in the bar area. There's someone on a roof (colonel inancov ?)that repairs weapons and stuff in the bar area after you talk to them.
---END QUOTATION---



That's Captain Ivantsov. Ivancov is in Rostock Factory.

.
  01:56:45  14 July 2014
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Nite
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 09/25/2008
 

Message edited by:
Nite
07/14/2014 1:59:37
Messages: 1125
I'm seeing alot of people hitting this bug, and said they didn't kill the sin guys in cordon, however sometimes some random stalkers will walk past the sin house, thier is a fence full of rats next to the sin house, also it could have been the miltary sniper on the bridge that caused it. Any one of those could have caused the trigger to make the game think the player killed them which causes the mine to fail.

Maybe getting rid of the rats, setting a barrier to keep stalkers away from the sin house, and setting military to not kill sin would fix the problem.
  02:23:19  14 July 2014
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Grenadier
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/13/2014
 

Message edited by:
Grenadier
07/14/2014 2:25:12
Messages: 17
@Steelyglint:
Since you obviosly won't get it:
It is totally senseless to debate about ethics or right or wrong in an area where nearly everybody is a criminal to a certain degree (for example taking hostages). Just consider the fact that all factions are only tolerated in the Zone. It is as simple as that.

The point is that if someone decides to kill the Sins in the beginning there is no way he could know how the story goes on. And thats the problem. That person simply can't finish the game.
Can I finish the storyline with the help of Duty? -Anyway I posted the bug I had with that decision.

Since they are only four (?) Sins in the house my suggestion is maybe to reduce the sensibility to react on this act if you kill them. Normally killing four Duties for example won't make you the worst enemy of them.
  02:48:40  14 July 2014
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 28292
Pissed off SIN... Failed "Go deeper into the mines

I had repeatedly suggested to Dez0wave that it did not make any sense
for the Sin to remain in the Cordon after getting their flash drive. My
suggestion was to replace them afterward with some Bandits who
took over the house. Spawning and traveling Bandits going
there would allow the Player some action, some looting
and would solve the Sin members getting killed.
The temptation was just too great.

TS
  03:06:07  14 July 2014
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Steelyglint
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/06/2009
Messages: 5171

---QUOTATION---
@Steelyglint:
Since you obviosly won't get it:
It is totally senseless to debate about ethics or right or wrong in an area where nearly everybody is a criminal to a certain degree (for example taking hostages). Just consider the fact that all factions are only tolerated in the Zone. It is as simple as that.
---END QUOTATION---



Oh, I get what you're saying. I can read English as well as write in it. You mention everybody being a criminal to a certain degree. It is your own ethics and morality that the game is putting under a microscope that decides the breadth of that degree.

It would appear that, far from all, no factions are tolerated in the Zone. None of them are supposed to be there - that's what 'Exclusion Zone' means. The military shoot at anyone because they're not tolerated there.

And nothing in Stalker games is 'as simple as that'. Any 'gun and run' type FPS allows of the indiscriminate killing of anyone or thing that can be killed. But in Stalker games you have to apply morality and ethics in order to find a correct path through the storyline. Your own experience should tell you that it is not ethically or morally right to kill the Sin - it seems to have taught you that by halting your progress through the storyline. What better evidence do you need?


---QUOTATION---
The point is that if someone decides to kill the Sins in the beginning there is no way he could know how the story goes on. And thats the problem. That person simply can't finish the game.
Can I finish the storyline with the help of Duty? -Anyway I posted the bug I had with that decision.
---END QUOTATION---



The first sentence is quite true. But had that player's ethics and morality prevented him from the indiscriminate murder of the Sin he would not have found himself in that position afterwards. Still, it should be possible to carry on with the game by joining the other Sin-killers, Duty. As with all Stalker games, there are many paths that can be followed. But if you play as a civilized, ethical human you will not encounter that problem. Getting it yet?


---QUOTATION---
Since they are only four (?) Sins in the house my suggestion is maybe to reduce the sensibility to react on this act if you kill them. Normally killing four Duties for example won't make you the worst enemy of them.
---END QUOTATION---



Unless they are 'green' friendly, killing a single Dutyer should make them your enemy. It certainly does in SoC. Even helping to get rid of Skull and his buddies in AW in vanilla SoC will turn Duty into enemies if they're not already solid 'green' friends to you. And Skull and co are disobeying Voronin's direct orders.

.
  03:06:54  14 July 2014
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Nite
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 09/25/2008
Messages: 1125

---QUOTATION---
Pissed off SIN... Failed "Go deeper into the mines

I had repeatedly suggested to Dez0wave that it did not make any sense
for the Sin to remain in the Cordon after getting their flash drive. My
suggestion was to replace them afterward with some Bandits who
took over the house. Spawning and traveling Bandits going
there would allow the Player some action, some looting
and would solve the Sin members getting killed.
The temptation was just too great.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



I like that idea too, the sin in cordon are not needed past that point.
 
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