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Pissed off SIN... Failed "Go deeper into the mines"

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  00:09:28  14 July 2014
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wrangler708
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/15/2007
Messages: 104
Must have missed him. Twice.
So, from your name and avatar, it would seem you are a primary person involved with this mod.
If so, let me begin with my thanks for all that you have done, it is a truly awesome accomplishment, and thanks for answering in my thread.

That said, let's say I had not killed any SIN. But I get to the bar and unknowingly join Duty. SIN is now an enemy you say. So this would also be game over??
  00:13:38  14 July 2014
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wrangler708
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/15/2007
Messages: 104

---QUOTATION---
Just play the game as you would if it were real. You wouldn't just go around killing people for the hell of it. Especially if they had no designs on you. That's just terrorism or the acts of a psychopath.

Shoot those who shoot at you. The game will not punish you for that. It may well punish you for shooting neutrals and friends. That's just one of the ways that Stalker games differ from the usual FPS item - you can't just grab a weapon and kill everything you meet because doing so will inevitably kill your game before you get much further.

The Sin are a bunch of victims. They were experimented on in the labs, and all they are really trying to do is find some way to reverse what was done to them. Out here in the real world we would sue the ass off anyone who did such a thing to us. In the Zone they don't have that option. Strelok is right and showing his humanitarian tendencies by helping them.

.
---END QUOTATION---


The SIN in forest were shooting at me. I am not a psychopath and I do play as I would in real life and have played all of the Stalker games for many hundreds of hours.
You cannot lay this at the feet of the player that the game can be broken so easily. I understand that you are probably a huge fan but blaming me will not make this better. The SIN had Fox tied up and my job was to get him free. If killing them was what I had to do, so be it. I wasn't truying to break the game. Many people have apparently also killed those same SIN so I am not unique psychopath as you would suggest.
  00:15:13  14 July 2014
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dezodor
level designer
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2007
Messages: 3803
both triggers them to be enemy. previously relations file wasnt working fine, now it works (still not perfect though).
duty hates sin, you can feel it from the words of petrenko, or the other guys there, so if you join them just because you can (and because we did not add the pre-condition for it, which would only trigger to join duty when its not lethal for the story), then sin will really hate you for that move
  00:22:54  14 July 2014
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wrangler708
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/15/2007
 

Message edited by:
wrangler708
07/14/2014 0:24:12
Messages: 104
Ahh. Well. Should be a stronger message not to kill SIN or join Duty.
I know the Master Stalkers around here probably know all of this stuff but us regular Veterans need a little more guidance it would seem.

I really wish I had just stopped in the tunnel so I could still have that message that Petrenko sent me verbatim so I could relay it to you.

He sends me to Voronin specifically to join Duty. Like the game knew this could happen and seeing Voronin would start me on an alternate path.
  00:22:55  14 July 2014
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Charcharo
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1175

---QUOTATION---
Ah.
Well, I guess this playthrough is lost.

Heh. Lost. See what I did there.

I'm Stalkered out anyway.

Thanks!

Seems as though, at some point this was considered because along with the fail, I get that detailed transmission telling me that I should go see Voronin to fix this.

Also, I did notice that the guys guarding Fox were yellow this time. I went to each of them trying to get somebody to talk to tell me what I have to do to save Fox and none of them say anything. Fox don't say anything. So... I , kill them all and save Fox. He thanks me and we all go on our way.
I will tell you that, in addition to killing those guys, I made an unscheduled trip through the Forest just to look around and I'm pretty sure I remember finding a compound with some guys that were also SIN who I also killed. So...
Something should be done so that people don't lose hours upon hours upon hours of play time for these things that cannot be predicted to totally break the game.
---END QUOTATION---



Whilst I do agree with what you are saying (The game DOES make the first encounter with Sin antaginistic, and presents killing them as an option; before any singular theme has been established), you did not look well enough. One of the Sin guys RIGHT NEXT to Fox offers you a solution... you did not ask him
  00:54:59  14 July 2014
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 28254
Pissed off SIN... Failed "Go deeper into the mines"

In Testing, I would always go next door to the collapsed house next
to the Sin House in the Cordon. Some rats there would see me, I
would make them follow me to the Sin House and then step back
and watch the Sin members fight the rats. Usually 1 or 2 of them
would get killed providing some loot and an early AKSU or shotgun.

TS
  01:09:29  14 July 2014
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Steelyglint
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/06/2009
 

Message edited by:
Steelyglint
07/14/2014 1:10:48
Messages: 5171
In the game prior to the new patch you are asked to go and free Fox from the Sin. When you get to them you are allowed into the house - by a group who are red enemies - and they don't attack you. So why should you attack them?

The guy standing right beside Fox, as Charcharo says, is the one to speak to. That is made obvious by the fact that none of the others has a dialogue option.

He tells you he wants something from Sid. You go and get it, return and they free Fox. That's the job you were sent out to do done.

If you return to that house after that they will shoot at you. They are, after all, red enemies, and you have no further business there as far as the storyline goes.

With the new patch the Sin are neutral. There is no situation, other than assassination missions (which a morally, ethically sound person wouldn't touch with a barge-pole) that involve shooting neutrals. Any neutral is usually someone that there is a way to turn into a 'green' friend. Shooting him just turns all his friends into enemies - building up the numbers of weapons likely to be aimed and fired at you is not a good survival tactic. And shooting neutrals is not an indication of anything but murderousness.

.
  01:09:54  14 July 2014
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Grenadier
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/13/2014
 

Message edited by:
Grenadier
07/14/2014 1:17:46
Messages: 17

---QUOTATION---
Just play the game as you would if it were real. You wouldn't just go around killing people for the hell of it. Especially if they had no designs on you. That's just terrorism or the acts of a psychopath.

Shoot those who shoot at you. The game will not punish you for that. It may well punish you for shooting neutrals and friends. That's just one of the ways that Stalker games differ from the usual FPS item - you can't just grab a weapon and kill everything you meet because doing so will inevitably kill your game before you get much further.

The Sin are a bunch of victims. They were experimented on in the labs, and all they are really trying to do is find some way to reverse what was done to them. Out here in the real world we would sue the ass off anyone who did such a thing to us. In the Zone they don't have that option. Strelok is right and showing his humanitarian tendencies by helping them.

.
---END QUOTATION---



@steelyglint:
Well they are NOT that friendly. Very disrespectful these guys. They captured Fox. And you have to free him.
You can decide HOW you manage that.That is also an aspect of STALKER. "Absolute freedom within the game world" - They told us long ago
A simple phrase from sid will be enough: "Don't kill them rookie you may need them later."

Seems like you have to start a new game. I had the same Problem. I kept them alive with the first patch and killed them now with the second patch.
  01:17:44  14 July 2014
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Steelyglint
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/06/2009
Messages: 5171

---QUOTATION---
Just play the game as you would if it were real. You wouldn't just go around killing people for the hell of it. Especially if they had no designs on you. That's just terrorism or the acts of a psychopath.

Shoot those who shoot at you. The game will not punish you for that. It may well punish you for shooting neutrals and friends. That's just one of the ways that Stalker games differ from the usual FPS item - you can't just grab a weapon and kill everything you meet because doing so will inevitably kill your game before you get much further.

The Sin are a bunch of victims. They were experimented on in the labs, and all they are really trying to do is find some way to reverse what was done to them. Out here in the real world we would sue the ass off anyone who did such a thing to us. In the Zone they don't have that option. Strelok is right and showing his humanitarian tendencies by helping them.

.

Well they are NOT that friendly. Very disrespectful these guys. They captured Fox. And you have to free him.
---END QUOTATION---



Had you been experimented on and found that your only way of extracting some of the information that might help to put things right from someone who doesn't really need it as you do (Sid), was to take a hostage and offer an exchange, that's what you'd do.

I doubt you'd be particularly friendly either. It was other people who caused the damage to you, so until you can be sure of their motives, any other people are suspect. And what's to respect about a world, a people, who do such things to each other?

.
  01:22:11  14 July 2014
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Grenadier
(Novice)
 
On forum: 07/13/2014
Messages: 17
@Steelyglint:
This is somehow getting a little bit...uhm...LOL?
You have to kill soldiers but why? They only do what their goverment wants them to do and they don't have any chance to change that. So this is really not ok. Why do you kill the dogs in game? They are not responsible for that what happend to them and if you were one of them you really would like some humen flesh...got it?
 
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