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Supressed Weapons actually serving a purpose

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Question Do you like this idea?
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  00:36:13  7 April 2007
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Cyjoki
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/05/2007
Messages: 60
Supressed Weapons actually serving a purpose

I think that when a weapon is suppressed, if an enemy isn't within a certain distance (10 feet/2.5 meters) they will not hear the shot unless you hit them/hit an object near them.

This would make alot of Tasks much more feasible (i.e. Kill the Stalker named Fiend.) and would also add alot more realism.

Because how does everyone/anyone know I'm shooting when I fire a silenced pistol round into the air?

Also, I think that if you stab someone in the back or get a 1 hit kill with any object that doesn't make noise, it shouldn't alert people nearby. (Unless they can actually see you.)
  00:53:16  7 April 2007
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Noctrl
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/06/2007
Messages: 37
Things are already in the game..
  05:39:22  7 April 2007
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StarkeRealm
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/06/2007
Messages: 150
Because real supressers actualy make a fair bit of noise, much less then an unsupressed round, but, still loud enough to hear for some distance in the right environment. Like, say the near silence of an open field?

In this STALKER's fairly accurate. The silencer behaves properly for what it is and actualy makes stealth much more viable.

Also that whine from your NV can (in theory) be heard by hostiles, though I'm not sure if I've ever seen this happen or not.
  06:02:35  7 April 2007
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M0ldyM!LK
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/24/2007
 

Message edited by:
M0ldyM!LK
04/07/2007 6:04:56
Messages: 149
Suppressed weapons aren't silent. If you're within 100m, or even further away in some cases (granted you're on open, flat terrain), you WILL hear the shot. The advantage of suppressed weapons is that it is virtually impossible to distinguish the direction from which the shot was taken.


NV was mentioned in the post previous to mine...

Has anyone else noticed that the "good" (purple) NV instantly alerts enemies in the area to your exact location, even through walls and solid objects? Or am I just having a fluke?

Sorry for the thread derailment...
  14:08:18  7 April 2007
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[dandan]
Ancient History
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/30/2005
Messages: 873

---QUOTATION---
Suppressed weapons aren't silent. If you're within 100m, or even further away in some cases (granted you're on open, flat terrain), you WILL hear the shot. The advantage of suppressed weapons is that it is virtually impossible to distinguish the direction from which the shot was taken.

---END QUOTATION---



Exactly. Also an advantage of a suppressed weapon is that the report sounds like something other than a gunshot.
  14:16:07  7 April 2007
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Raptor
Vault Dweller
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/24/2007
Messages: 324
I think the silenced guns work pretty well in this game.
  15:16:55  7 April 2007
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Alamarian
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/04/2004
Messages: 39
As others have mentioned, suppressors are quietER, not quiet. However, the biggest advantage of a suppressor isn't present in the game: you can hear. Anyone who has ever experienced a gunshot without hearing protection knows what I mean. Besides preserving your ears for the long term, a suppressor allows you to hear your opponents, instead of a ring-tone.
  15:57:45  7 April 2007
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Cyjoki
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/05/2007
Messages: 60
Suppressors main function is to limit noise, and when fired they do not sound like a gun shot. Just because someone hears a noise, doesn't mean they instantly can identify it. Haven't you ever been walking along and heard a noise, but had no idea what it was?

Having fired multiple firearms with suppressors mounted on them, I've noticed that the sound is greatly reduced, as well as the flash, and most people would not be able to recognize it as a gunshot.

Also, the smaller caliber of firearm, the less noise it makes due to the channeling of the superheated gas and lower muzzle velocity when using a silencer.

What I'm saying in this post is the way NPC's respond to sound needs to be changed.

Not everyone in the Zone is ex-special forces and can instantly identify a suppressor when they hear one.


---QUOTATION---
Suppressed weapons aren't silent. If you're within 100m, or even further away in some cases (granted you're on open, flat terrain), you WILL hear the shot. The advantage of suppressed weapons is that it is virtually impossible to distinguish the direction from which the shot was taken.
---END QUOTATION---



This is completely wrong. I used to fire a Beretta 92fs with a suppressor almost everyday during my range time. You could barely hear it when you were 50 feet away, let alone 300.

Also, I use to shoot a .223 SPR with a silencer. And that gun was hard to hear even when you were the one shooting it.
  16:11:14  7 April 2007
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M0ldyM!LK
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/24/2007
Messages: 149
My only experience with suppressors is with .338 Lapua rifles, so that might explain a bit. It was loud enough to create a pretty decent echo, but certainly wasn't deafening. I also wasn't down range from them, so the distance on that post was a SWAG
  16:14:03  7 April 2007
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Cyjoki
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/05/2007
 

Message edited by:
Cyjoki
04/07/2007 16:15:41
Messages: 60
For a weapon to work properly with a suppressor, it needs to have vents and be properly mounted for the gun. But it is true, some firearms will still be extremely loud even when mounted properly with a suppressor.

But still, the point of this thread was to make NPC's respond properly to sound.
  18:56:07  7 April 2007
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UFO
(Novice)
 
On forum: 09/29/2004
Messages: 27
On a related note, doesn't the added weight of the silencer give some extra stability on automatic weapons? Sure, the balance will be a bit screwed up by hanging half a kilo on the ouchy end of an AK74, but that weight should keep muzzle jump down quite a bit?
And for those who have never heard an unsilenced handgun inside a building; It hurts. Even a .22 Long rifle. Shudder to think how much hearing our beloved Marked One would have left after dumping a mag of 5.45's inside a closed room...
  19:07:31  7 April 2007
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StarkeRealm
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/06/2007
Messages: 150
Beretta 92s... <shudders>

OK, to be fair there is a big difference between one supressed weapon and another, on how much noise it will make. The supressed pistol you find all over the place is probably nearly silent, due to the integrated supressor, and the VAL likewise, because it's firing a subsonic round.

But, if you have a LR300 and are firing it with a supressor using standard ammo, there will be a loud bang from bullet as it travels, it's a sonic boom. Now, if there was an option for subsonic ammo in the game, then yes, while firing it with a supressed weapon, enemies shouldn't be able to hear your gunshot.

As for the NV, both versions put off a considerable whine, that enemies can hear and respond to, not just the standard version. You'll get the same thing if you pull out a rifle near someone hostile even though they can't see you, they hear you cycling a round into the pipe.
  20:35:21  7 April 2007
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Cyjoki
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/05/2007
Messages: 60
Silencers do help balance a gun and fight recoil. Certain manufactuers make silencers that will perfectly balance the gun they are specified to fit (when they gun is fully loaded of course).

And also, I do understand that NPC's do respond to sound correctly in some situations, but I don't understand how they are alerted when I kill someone in bar town.

Also, if I come across a patrol that is facing away from me and I fire some suppressed pistols round, how do they instantly identify the source of the fire and then return fire?
  21:33:43  7 April 2007
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YourMessageHere
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/01/2007
Messages: 88

---QUOTATION---
For a weapon to work properly with a suppressor, it needs to have vents and be properly mounted for the gun. But it is true, some firearms will still be extremely loud even when mounted properly with a suppressor.

But still, the point of this thread was to make NPC's respond properly to sound.
---END QUOTATION---



Apologies for slight derailment, but I'm curious. What precisely do you mean by vents? Are we talking barrel vents, a la Glock C models, or vents on the suppressor itself? I always thought something like barrel vents would actively work against a suppressor in much the same way as you can't effectively mount one on a standard revolver.
  22:38:42  7 April 2007
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Cyjoki
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/05/2007
Messages: 60
Bleh, I got confused.

I didn't mean add barrel vents, I just lost my train of thought.

That would completely defeat the purpose of a suppressor because the gas would escape.
  20:53:29  9 April 2007
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Razumen
(Novice)
 
On forum: 04/05/2007
Messages: 46
Suppressed weapons should be able to be successfully used when the enemy's companions are far away so as to not hear, If they are any closer the knife would be the only way to silently kill.

Also, I may be wrong, but ambient noise doesn't seem to affect the NPC's hearing either. That is, they can hear just as good in a dead quiet night as they can in a raging thunderstorm. If you're sneaking into a base in a storm (or even if it's just raining) and using a suppressor and knife, you should be damn near impossible to hear.

Lastly, I hate how if you're sneaking, and if you walk (actually run, it's the default pace) even for just a moment, every enemy within hearing distance instantly goes into "kill mode". Well, maybe they don't, I can't understand their language (Russian?) but it sure sounds like it. NPCs shouldn't all assume instantly that whatever they hear walking is an enemy (especially if they haven't seen nor fought you before).

This kind of ties into the ambient sound thing as well, in a thunderstorm you should be able to walk at a normal pace without fear of being heard (unless you're RIGHT up next to someone). Even in a gunfight enemies react to quickly to you walking up behind them.
  01:04:29  10 April 2007
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Alamarian
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/04/2004
 

Message edited by:
Alamarian
04/10/2007 1:15:14
Messages: 39
For anyone who can't shoot a suppressed weapon and is interested in some facts, rather than anecdotes on the internet, check out http://silencertests.com/reviews/list.pl?sortby=suppressed. The quietest suppressor on there rates at 117dB. An SRT arms integral suppressor(non-removable) on a .22 rifle is 111dB. A jackhammer is usually in the area of 103-111dB. A suppressed firearm is a little different from a jackhammer(a sound measured in fractions of a second versus a continuos sound), of course.


---QUOTATION---
On a related note, doesn't the added weight of the silencer give some extra stability on automatic weapons?
---END QUOTATION---



Weight decreases recoil, so yes. If you add that extra weight to a non-fixed barrel pistol, it will usually fail to cycle. A Nielsen device (uses the escaping gasses to help the slide cycle) is often required. Sometimes a suppressor can improve accuracy. A barrel is not totally steady, it flexes or "whips" when fired. Additional mass prevents it from moving as much.


---QUOTATION---
Even in a gunfight enemies react to quickly to you walking up behind them.
---END QUOTATION---



Indeed, kind of hard to hear footsteps over gunfire. I have actually "snuck" up behind an enemy during a gunfight though. Running no less. Probably a fluke though.
  04:40:41  10 April 2007
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HELLBRINGER
(Senior)
 
On forum: 04/09/2007
Messages: 77
The suppressed VSS Vintorez (Vintar BC) seems to work fine for me in the game as long as I'm a fair distance away. On garbage coming back from dark valley I was sitting back on the hill sniping off the bandits. I took 7 of them out before someone spotted me. They all ran around like crazy trying to find me.

For some reason though... Freedom base (Warehouse) I shot a sniper in a tower from well over 150 meters away and there was no one within 70 meters or so of me, and the moment he died.... chaos ensued and I was getting shot at by every single freedom member.

So I dunno...
  22:34:32  10 April 2007
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StarkeRealm
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/06/2007
Messages: 150
That was scripted, probably, tied in with the freedom assault scripts, accidentaly.
  03:06:17  11 April 2007
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ReclusiveMan
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/26/2007
Messages: 13
*Sigh*

One shouldnt expect the "suppressed weaponry" to behave properly in the game as the whole cult of suppressors is rife with errors and false information. They do not make a perfect, suave, thwip sound where noone in say, an apartment complex would hear it. The sound is a very efficient combination of metal (or plastic) coming into contact and expanding gases. the sound will differ on the type of ammunition, weapon type, barrell length and environment being fired in.

Its always the same thing with this. I often wonder if it is really neccesary for the weapons to behave so artificially. There are many awkward aspects to the firearms behavior in video games and the only real conclusion you can come to is that it is not being respected.

Rifle, submachine gun, handgun and long barrelled weapons produce very loud, crisp, dangerous sounding noises. Often in games, they are reproduced to sound like someone dropping some food on the kitchen floor or someone closing a book forcefully. It serves a couple purposes: It makes it seem like it is easy and convienient to kill with firearms and also pulls you out of the immersive nature of what it is you are doing. The sounds and the behavior of firearms in most games is just fake and can be improved with realism and entertainment in mind.
 
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