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Pron positions

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  04:18:39  28 August 2003
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ЕzЕ
(Novice)
 
On forum: 08/28/2003
Messages: 2
Pron positions

Please tell me you will be able to lay on your stomic and crawl and do all the things a sniper would be able to do. If not that would be really stupid. How can you have a sniper game and not beable to pron or crawl. In all the trailers and SS I have seen it looks like you can only crouch?
  06:08:35  28 August 2003
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Claws
The Watcher
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On forum: 10/23/2002
Messages: 1053
I don't think you can go prone.
  10:32:20  29 August 2003
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Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/01/2003
Messages: 987

---QUOTATION---
I don't think you can go prone.
---END QUOTATION---



hope they put it in, it just wouldn't be the same to have a game of this depth and realism without the ability to lay down.
  11:46:35  29 August 2003
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o-l.com|HeadHunter
Watching S.T.A.L.K.E.R. since the beginning...
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On forum: 08/11/2002
Messages: 902
At the moment there is no proning planned. This might be reconsidered at a later point of development.
  14:12:51  29 August 2003
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Dallas
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/24/2003
Messages: 146
I seen alot of pros for adding the prone position, is the decision to leave it out gameplay wise or coding wise?
  17:41:19  29 August 2003
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Claws
The Watcher
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On forum: 10/23/2002
Messages: 1053

---QUOTATION---
I seen alot of pros for adding the prone position, is the decision to leave it out gameplay wise or coding wise?
---END QUOTATION---



I'm sure it's not code related.
  18:00:09  29 August 2003
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Chickennog
Resident Alcoholic
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On forum: 08/26/2003
Messages: 157
it would be good it there was prone in the game you could had in a thick bush and wait for a stalker/prey to go by then kill it, i think it would be better than just crouching. when u go prone it is much harder too see the person who has gone prone in long grass, tress, ets.
  07:22:17  30 August 2003
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Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
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On forum: 03/01/2003
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---QUOTATION---
it would be good it there was prone in the game you could had in a thick bush and wait for a stalker/prey to go by then kill it, i think it would be better than just crouching. when u go prone it is much harder too see the person who has gone prone in long grass, tress, ets.
---END QUOTATION---



Not to mention that its a milatary tatic that is used not just commonly but consently. That first rings out and you drop your ass to the ground.
  18:25:29  1 September 2003
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serp
whats this?
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On forum: 02/27/2003
Messages: 621


I dont see why they dont implement prone position, sounds pretty easy to implement, and can really make the game better.
  17:23:02  3 September 2003
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matrok
(Novice)
 
On forum: 09/02/2003
Messages: 13

---QUOTATION---
I don't think you can go prone.

hope they put it in, it just wouldn't be the same to have a game of this depth and realism without the ability to lay down.
---END QUOTATION---



  20:42:49  3 September 2003
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Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
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On forum: 03/01/2003
Messages: 987
Well it is pre alpha after all, so not having prone at this stage isn't a problem.
  17:38:50  5 September 2003
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015
If they do put in pron, do you think that it will differ from the from the laying down to go to sleep? Or are you going ot be able to sleep standing up like a horse?
  19:01:06  5 September 2003
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Claws
The Watcher
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On forum: 10/23/2002
Messages: 1053

---QUOTATION---
If they do put in pron, do you think that it will differ from the from the laying down to go to sleep? Or are you going ot be able to sleep standing up like a horse?
---END QUOTATION---



Sleeping only involves the screen going black for a small amount of time.
  22:26:20  5 September 2003
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Dallas
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/24/2003
Messages: 146
How about sleepwalking?
  01:08:59  6 September 2003
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Don Reba
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On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11648
I recall the developers said that it will be possible to gone prone, but there will be no crawling.
  20:07:45  6 September 2003
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Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/01/2003
Messages: 987

---QUOTATION---
I recall the developers said that it will be possible to gone prone, but there will be no crawling.
---END QUOTATION---



Sorry if that doesn't make sence to me...
going probe and not being able to move would just be lieing down to die.

Situation:

A stalker takes a shot at me, misses and I go prone behind a wall that has mostly been distroyed. Now I am left with two options:

I can stands, which will let him have another shot and possably one where I can't move or fire back so it would be a free shot (takes time to rise to your feet even if you can throw yourself down).

I can lay there till he walks up to the wall, knowing I can't see him and hence fire back, drop a grenade over it and watch me eather blow up, or shoot when I stand to run.



With a crawl option I could atleast straft to the edge of the stone wall and return fire or crawl away to a palce I can safely stand without him seeing me. If I can't move while prone then they will know where I am, and hence can kill me at leasure.
  22:32:46  6 September 2003
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Don Reba
Bishop and Councilor of War
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On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11648
Sorry, I meant that they said that it will be possible to crouch, but not crawl.
  04:31:27  7 September 2003
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ЕzЕ
(Novice)
 
On forum: 08/28/2003
Messages: 2
Sooo... What your telling me is your remaking Counter Strike?

I think I will keep playing Enemy Territorys, cause you know what you can prone in that and crawl and guess what that game is a free download.

come on guys!!

  06:32:50  7 September 2003
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Don Reba
Bishop and Councilor of War
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On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11648
I don't think it is a big deal. Although, I believe that there should be a command for lying on the back and looking at that gorgious STALKER sky. Now that's Gameplay!
  13:33:23  7 September 2003
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
Although, I believe that there should be a command for lying on the back and looking at that gorgious STALKER sky. Now that's Gameplay!

---END QUOTATION---



Second
  21:36:02  7 September 2003
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Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
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On forum: 03/01/2003
Messages: 987

---QUOTATION---
Although, I believe that there should be a command for lying on the back and looking at that gorgious STALKER sky. Now that's Gameplay!


Second
---END QUOTATION---



maybe when you camp thats what you see, then it zooms out to third person to show you laying there, stairing upwards, then faids to black.


Still I have the same problem with not being able to crawl when in crouched, the same above situation could happen leaving you a sitting duck. I don't see where its hard to implement crawling, in duck or prone position.
  10:58:20  12 September 2003
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laurens
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/18/2003
Messages: 78
I definitly think you should be able to go to prone and crouch around. The only reason you wouldn't implement this in a game is that you have to make some (a lot) more animations and code. I think that is the reason there won't be any swimming?
  14:14:12  12 September 2003
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x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
I definitly think you should be able to go to prone and crouch around. The only reason you wouldn't implement this in a game is that you have to make some (a lot) more animations and code. I think that is the reason there won't be any swimming?
---END QUOTATION---



Animations, yes. code, no. swimming, possibly becasue of what the average stalker would be wearing, would drowned.
  05:43:15  13 September 2003
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MAXIMISE
(Senior)
 
On forum: 07/24/2003
Messages: 109
Some games specifically don't have prone where they should. Simply because it often hurts game dynamics. The pros and cons of proning usually change dependant on the game and its features, and the amount of emphasis is being made on Realistic interaction with environments, compared with realism of combat.

A Prone Character has alot of issues to deal with... clipping, blocking, zones of effect etc etc. The differences between a kneeling character and a prone one are actually quite significant design-wise. When standing or kneeling the Character only takes up a few square meters (at most) of the environment. Proning/lying down takes up a large footprint where rotation points and by movement, clipping, can be really hard to deal with. Everyone has seen the Multiplayer games with proning, everyone weirdly rotates on there belly when shooting, and there legs and arms disappear behind elevation, walls and debris.

If the Character has collision detection and a maliable; almost 'rag doll' presence, then you could prone easier, where you let the physics engine reposition the character to point however the player wants, but not unrealistically cutting into objects. Not many games use full collision detection though (if any at all - until the character has a death animation and then it rag dolls your body then), because of processor use. Its easier to do on NPC's for wow effects, but when your playing in first person your just a camera position with a false sense of your own body infront of you. Your characters body doesn't actually exsist; but for a statistical hit zone.

Anyway its more complicated in some games then others. In Stalker the pros may be outwieghed by the cons by a fair margin, so don't be surprised if it doesn't get in. I hope it does, I just wouldn't count on it. I think everyone gets visions of seeing themselves lying down with a sniper rifle about to take out an enemy. And the fact that all modern combat engagements are either from prone fire positions or behind bunkered/armoured cover means that if STALKER wants to be relistic as far as combat goes, it will lets us prone, and let and gameplay issues sort themselves out by the multiplayer players.
  10:05:29  13 September 2003
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Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/01/2003
Messages: 987

---QUOTATION---
Some games specifically don't have prone where they should. Simply because it often hurts game dynamics. The pros and cons of proning usually change dependant on the game and its features, and the amount of emphasis is being made on Realistic interaction with environments, compared with realism of combat.

A Prone Character has alot of issues to deal with... clipping, blocking, zones of effect etc etc. The differences between a kneeling character and a prone one are actually quite significant design-wise. When standing or kneeling the Character only takes up a few square meters (at most) of the environment. Proning/lying down takes up a large footprint where rotation points and by movement, clipping, can be really hard to deal with. Everyone has seen the Multiplayer games with proning, everyone weirdly rotates on there belly when shooting, and there legs and arms disappear behind elevation, walls and debris.

If the Character has collision detection and a maliable; almost 'rag doll' presence, then you could prone easier, where you let the physics engine reposition the character to point however the player wants, but not unrealistically cutting into objects. Not many games use full collision detection though (if any at all - until the character has a death animation and then it rag dolls your body then), because of processor use. Its easier to do on NPC's for wow effects, but when your playing in first person your just a camera position with a false sense of your own body infront of you. Your characters body doesn't actually exsist; but for a statistical hit zone.

Anyway its more complicated in some games then others. In Stalker the pros may be outwieghed by the cons by a fair margin, so don't be surprised if it doesn't get in. I hope it does, I just wouldn't count on it. I think everyone gets visions of seeing themselves lying down with a sniper rifle about to take out an enemy. And the fact that all modern combat engagements are either from prone fire positions or behind bunkered/armoured cover means that if STALKER wants to be relistic as far as combat goes, it will lets us prone, and let and gameplay issues sort themselves out by the multiplayer players.
---END QUOTATION---




Inf has a more complex system then a lot of other ones out there where collision include your legs as well as your gun and not just a small area the character would take up when standing/crouching. It was annoying I found but realistic, annoying becouse it would allow you to turn enough when prone becouse your little toe is cliping the wall. If stalkers could put in a way that you bend at the knee when turning up against a wall it would not only look alot better then your legs going through the walls but it would allow you to wriggle around into another dirrection without to many problems.
  00:09:58  16 September 2003
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MAXIMISE
(Senior)
 
On forum: 07/24/2003
Messages: 109

---QUOTATION---

If stalkers could put in a way that you bend at the knee when turning up against a wall it would not only look alot better then your legs going through the walls but it would allow you to wriggle around into another dirrection without to many problems.
---END QUOTATION---



Theres the rub. It takes alot more computing power to put in an actual rig for a player-character then just inputing restrictions on the players gamespace/character-displacements. If you could completely control your character as if it was your own body we obviously would have this issue, because we are fluid and adaptive. Current Game Characters have very rigid, very limited movements which are usually predefined by animations not physics. Even with RagDoll and HAVOC style engines, we won't see anything but restricted movement for a long time. Which makes proning either counter-gameplay (an annoying and restrictive even when useful) or CPU intensive, neither is fun.
Hope I am prooven wrong though.
  05:11:32  16 September 2003
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Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/01/2003
Messages: 987

---QUOTATION---

Theres the rub. It takes alot more computing power to put in an actual rig for a player-character then just inputing restrictions on the players gamespace/character-displacements. If you could completely control your character as if it was your own body we obviously would have this issue, because we are fluid and adaptive. Current Game Characters have very rigid, very limited movements which are usually predefined by animations not physics. Even with RagDoll and HAVOC style engines, we won't see anything but restricted movement for a long time. Which makes proning either counter-gameplay (an annoying and restrictive even when useful) or CPU intensive, neither is fun.
Hope I am prooven wrong though.
---END QUOTATION---




Well I've found prone, when done right, isn't used that much but it is useful... definly for us players who use tatics and even defence. If its not included then like HL, make it so mods can have the function even if it does leave you with 'leg through the wall' syndrome. It would be nice if they could get rid of that leg through the wall problem without restricting the manovability to much.
  07:25:24  16 September 2003
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laurens
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/18/2003
Messages: 78

---QUOTATION---
Animations, yes. code, no. swimming, possibly becasue of what the average stalker would be wearing, would drowned.
---END QUOTATION---


I agree it wouldn't take some revolutionary new code, but my point was that all those new animations like going prone, crouching/holding gun/aiming/shooting/doing whatever while prone still have to be coded in. I.e. they have to be called somewhere in the code. I've seen a lot of mods where they would show you screenshots of new cool moves a year before their coder got around to actually implement them.
 
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