ProjectsWhat's NewDownloadsCommunitySupportCompany
Forum Index » S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl Forum » Gameplay & Balance
Pron positions

« Previous 10 events | 1 2 3 | All Messages
Posted by/on
Question/AnswerMake Newest Up Sort by Descending
  21:36:02  7 September 2003
profilee-mailreply Message URLTo the Top
Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/01/2003
Messages: 987

---QUOTATION---
Although, I believe that there should be a command for lying on the back and looking at that gorgious STALKER sky. Now that's Gameplay!


Second
---END QUOTATION---



maybe when you camp thats what you see, then it zooms out to third person to show you laying there, stairing upwards, then faids to black.


Still I have the same problem with not being able to crawl when in crouched, the same above situation could happen leaving you a sitting duck. I don't see where its hard to implement crawling, in duck or prone position.
  10:58:20  12 September 2003
profilee-mailreply Message URLTo the Top
laurens
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/18/2003
Messages: 78
I definitly think you should be able to go to prone and crouch around. The only reason you wouldn't implement this in a game is that you have to make some (a lot) more animations and code. I think that is the reason there won't be any swimming?
  14:14:12  12 September 2003
profilee-mailreply Message URLTo the Top
x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
I definitly think you should be able to go to prone and crouch around. The only reason you wouldn't implement this in a game is that you have to make some (a lot) more animations and code. I think that is the reason there won't be any swimming?
---END QUOTATION---



Animations, yes. code, no. swimming, possibly becasue of what the average stalker would be wearing, would drowned.
  05:43:15  13 September 2003
profilee-mailreply Message URLTo the Top
MAXIMISE
(Senior)
 
On forum: 07/24/2003
Messages: 109
Some games specifically don't have prone where they should. Simply because it often hurts game dynamics. The pros and cons of proning usually change dependant on the game and its features, and the amount of emphasis is being made on Realistic interaction with environments, compared with realism of combat.

A Prone Character has alot of issues to deal with... clipping, blocking, zones of effect etc etc. The differences between a kneeling character and a prone one are actually quite significant design-wise. When standing or kneeling the Character only takes up a few square meters (at most) of the environment. Proning/lying down takes up a large footprint where rotation points and by movement, clipping, can be really hard to deal with. Everyone has seen the Multiplayer games with proning, everyone weirdly rotates on there belly when shooting, and there legs and arms disappear behind elevation, walls and debris.

If the Character has collision detection and a maliable; almost 'rag doll' presence, then you could prone easier, where you let the physics engine reposition the character to point however the player wants, but not unrealistically cutting into objects. Not many games use full collision detection though (if any at all - until the character has a death animation and then it rag dolls your body then), because of processor use. Its easier to do on NPC's for wow effects, but when your playing in first person your just a camera position with a false sense of your own body infront of you. Your characters body doesn't actually exsist; but for a statistical hit zone.

Anyway its more complicated in some games then others. In Stalker the pros may be outwieghed by the cons by a fair margin, so don't be surprised if it doesn't get in. I hope it does, I just wouldn't count on it. I think everyone gets visions of seeing themselves lying down with a sniper rifle about to take out an enemy. And the fact that all modern combat engagements are either from prone fire positions or behind bunkered/armoured cover means that if STALKER wants to be relistic as far as combat goes, it will lets us prone, and let and gameplay issues sort themselves out by the multiplayer players.
  10:05:29  13 September 2003
profilee-mailreply Message URLTo the Top
Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/01/2003
Messages: 987

---QUOTATION---
Some games specifically don't have prone where they should. Simply because it often hurts game dynamics. The pros and cons of proning usually change dependant on the game and its features, and the amount of emphasis is being made on Realistic interaction with environments, compared with realism of combat.

A Prone Character has alot of issues to deal with... clipping, blocking, zones of effect etc etc. The differences between a kneeling character and a prone one are actually quite significant design-wise. When standing or kneeling the Character only takes up a few square meters (at most) of the environment. Proning/lying down takes up a large footprint where rotation points and by movement, clipping, can be really hard to deal with. Everyone has seen the Multiplayer games with proning, everyone weirdly rotates on there belly when shooting, and there legs and arms disappear behind elevation, walls and debris.

If the Character has collision detection and a maliable; almost 'rag doll' presence, then you could prone easier, where you let the physics engine reposition the character to point however the player wants, but not unrealistically cutting into objects. Not many games use full collision detection though (if any at all - until the character has a death animation and then it rag dolls your body then), because of processor use. Its easier to do on NPC's for wow effects, but when your playing in first person your just a camera position with a false sense of your own body infront of you. Your characters body doesn't actually exsist; but for a statistical hit zone.

Anyway its more complicated in some games then others. In Stalker the pros may be outwieghed by the cons by a fair margin, so don't be surprised if it doesn't get in. I hope it does, I just wouldn't count on it. I think everyone gets visions of seeing themselves lying down with a sniper rifle about to take out an enemy. And the fact that all modern combat engagements are either from prone fire positions or behind bunkered/armoured cover means that if STALKER wants to be relistic as far as combat goes, it will lets us prone, and let and gameplay issues sort themselves out by the multiplayer players.
---END QUOTATION---




Inf has a more complex system then a lot of other ones out there where collision include your legs as well as your gun and not just a small area the character would take up when standing/crouching. It was annoying I found but realistic, annoying becouse it would allow you to turn enough when prone becouse your little toe is cliping the wall. If stalkers could put in a way that you bend at the knee when turning up against a wall it would not only look alot better then your legs going through the walls but it would allow you to wriggle around into another dirrection without to many problems.
  00:09:58  16 September 2003
profilee-mailreply Message URLTo the Top
MAXIMISE
(Senior)
 
On forum: 07/24/2003
Messages: 109

---QUOTATION---

If stalkers could put in a way that you bend at the knee when turning up against a wall it would not only look alot better then your legs going through the walls but it would allow you to wriggle around into another dirrection without to many problems.
---END QUOTATION---



Theres the rub. It takes alot more computing power to put in an actual rig for a player-character then just inputing restrictions on the players gamespace/character-displacements. If you could completely control your character as if it was your own body we obviously would have this issue, because we are fluid and adaptive. Current Game Characters have very rigid, very limited movements which are usually predefined by animations not physics. Even with RagDoll and HAVOC style engines, we won't see anything but restricted movement for a long time. Which makes proning either counter-gameplay (an annoying and restrictive even when useful) or CPU intensive, neither is fun.
Hope I am prooven wrong though.
  05:11:32  16 September 2003
profilee-mailreply Message URLTo the Top
Jinx Dragon
One of the mindless hoards
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/01/2003
Messages: 987

---QUOTATION---

Theres the rub. It takes alot more computing power to put in an actual rig for a player-character then just inputing restrictions on the players gamespace/character-displacements. If you could completely control your character as if it was your own body we obviously would have this issue, because we are fluid and adaptive. Current Game Characters have very rigid, very limited movements which are usually predefined by animations not physics. Even with RagDoll and HAVOC style engines, we won't see anything but restricted movement for a long time. Which makes proning either counter-gameplay (an annoying and restrictive even when useful) or CPU intensive, neither is fun.
Hope I am prooven wrong though.
---END QUOTATION---




Well I've found prone, when done right, isn't used that much but it is useful... definly for us players who use tatics and even defence. If its not included then like HL, make it so mods can have the function even if it does leave you with 'leg through the wall' syndrome. It would be nice if they could get rid of that leg through the wall problem without restricting the manovability to much.
  07:25:24  16 September 2003
profilee-mailreply Message URLTo the Top
laurens
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/18/2003
Messages: 78

---QUOTATION---
Animations, yes. code, no. swimming, possibly becasue of what the average stalker would be wearing, would drowned.
---END QUOTATION---


I agree it wouldn't take some revolutionary new code, but my point was that all those new animations like going prone, crouching/holding gun/aiming/shooting/doing whatever while prone still have to be coded in. I.e. they have to be called somewhere in the code. I've seen a lot of mods where they would show you screenshots of new cool moves a year before their coder got around to actually implement them.
 
Each word should be at least 3 characters long.
Search:    
Search conditions:    - spaces as AND    - spaces as OR   
 
Forum Index » S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl Forum » Gameplay & Balance
 

All short dates are in Month-Day-Year format.


 

Copyright © 1995-2020 GSC Game World. All rights reserved.
This site is best viewed in Internet Explorer 4.xx and up and Javascript enabled. Webmaster.
Opera Software products are not supported.
If any problem concerning the site functioning under Opera Software appears apply
to Opera Software technical support service.