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  02:41:26  4 November 2004
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x5060
Resident Nobody
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On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---

One other thing the SPAS-12 is made in Italy;
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh14-e.htm
that one is great
---END QUOTATION---



Its Ok, its heavy. Its also WAY over complicated. And i never understood the reason to switch from semi to pump.
  04:56:22  4 November 2004
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
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On forum: 06/04/2003
 

Message edited by:
Fux0r666
11/04/2004 4:57:48
Messages: 1927

---QUOTATION---

One other thing the SPAS-12 is made in Italy;
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh14-e.htm
that one is great

Its Ok, its heavy. Its also WAY over complicated. And i never understood the reason to switch from semi to pump.
---END QUOTATION---



I believe it was so the shotgun could support ammunition that is not powerful enough to cycle the action... or something.
  14:17:45  4 November 2004
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Serdiuk
Ohochepehotny
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 10/14/2004
Messages: 566
I like the idea of the AN94 Akaban, seems like a really cool gun.
  14:31:41  4 November 2004
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x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---

One other thing the SPAS-12 is made in Italy;
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh14-e.htm
that one is great

Its Ok, its heavy. Its also WAY over complicated. And i never understood the reason to switch from semi to pump.

I believe it was so the shotgun could support ammunition that is not powerful enough to cycle the action... or something.
---END QUOTATION---



Ok, yeah ill buy that, some low brass shells arent powerful enough blow the bolt entirely open. Ive had that problem with a 1170.
  05:45:27  5 November 2004
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 06/04/2003
Messages: 1927

---QUOTATION---

One other thing the SPAS-12 is made in Italy;
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh14-e.htm
that one is great

Its Ok, its heavy. Its also WAY over complicated. And i never understood the reason to switch from semi to pump.

I believe it was so the shotgun could support ammunition that is not powerful enough to cycle the action... or something.

Ok, yeah ill buy that, some low brass shells arent powerful enough blow the bolt entirely open. Ive had that problem with a 1170.
---END QUOTATION---



Why you'd want to load the a combat shotgun full of bird-shot, I don't know.. I suspect that, given its law enforcement application, that the pump action might be for bean bag rounds and such..

okay, I just read the US manual for the SPAS 12 and it says that in pump mode, it will fire any 2 3/4" load. In semi, it will fire any 2 3/4" magnum and standard bird, buck and slug loads, as long as they contain at least 1 1/4 ounces of shot and 3 1/4 and 3 1/2 ounces of dram.

So yeah, I guess it's to increase the versatility of the thing.
  02:57:54  8 November 2004
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Harry-the-Ruskie
(Senior)
 
On forum: 10/07/2004
Messages: 75
Since we are talking about shotgun, does anyone know what became of the US Military's program to evaluate and standardize into use a combat shotgun for all the sevices ?

I haven't been keeping up with such things. The last I heard was several years ago with the USMC being given the task of running the evaluation and replace the the plethora of shotguns then in service (Ithaca, MOssberg, etc) with just one purpose built combat shotgun (not something adapted from civilian sporting models).

Any news ??
  11:26:45  8 November 2004
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 06/04/2003
Messages: 1927

---QUOTATION---
Since we are talking about shotgun, does anyone know what became of the US Military's program to evaluate and standardize into use a combat shotgun for all the sevices ?

I haven't been keeping up with such things. The last I heard was several years ago with the USMC being given the task of running the evaluation and replace the the plethora of shotguns then in service (Ithaca, MOssberg, etc) with just one purpose built combat shotgun (not something adapted from civilian sporting models).

Any news ??
---END QUOTATION---



The closest thing I can think of is the CAWS program... but it doesn't sound like that is what you are talking about.
  14:16:37  8 November 2004
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x5060
Resident Nobody
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/23/2003
Messages: 2015

---QUOTATION---
Since we are talking about shotgun, does anyone know what became of the US Military's program to evaluate and standardize into use a combat shotgun for all the sevices ?

I haven't been keeping up with such things. The last I heard was several years ago with the USMC being given the task of running the evaluation and replace the the plethora of shotguns then in service (Ithaca, MOssberg, etc) with just one purpose built combat shotgun (not something adapted from civilian sporting models).

Any news ??
---END QUOTATION---



Navy want with the Mossberg 590A1
Marines use the Benelli M1014
And the Army i think adopted the 870 of 1170 police models.

They gave up on the idea of making one weapon becasue it was to expensive when there where already comperable alternatives on the civilian market.
  02:44:10  9 November 2004
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Harry-the-Ruskie
(Senior)
 
On forum: 10/07/2004
Messages: 75

---QUOTATION---


Navy want with the Mossberg 590A1
Marines use the Benelli M1014
And the Army i think adopted the 870 of 1170 police models.

They gave up on the idea of making one weapon becasue it was to expensive when there where already comperable alternatives on the civilian market.
---END QUOTATION---



LOL. It looks like things went full circle right back where they started. They were actually looking at something with a box magazine and assault rifle stock configuration.

Ah, well. Guess the program never really took off. In anycase they probably don't see how a shotgun will factor well into combat operations except maybe on close range assaults. Too niche for them I guess.
  06:40:38  9 November 2004
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Fux0r666
resident smart-ass
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 06/04/2003
Messages: 1927

---QUOTATION---


Navy want with the Mossberg 590A1
Marines use the Benelli M1014
And the Army i think adopted the 870 of 1170 police models.

They gave up on the idea of making one weapon becasue it was to expensive when there where already comperable alternatives on the civilian market.

LOL. It looks like things went full circle right back where they started. They were actually looking at something with a box magazine and assault rifle stock configuration.

Ah, well. Guess the program never really took off. In anycase they probably don't see how a shotgun will factor well into combat operations except maybe on close range assaults. Too niche for them I guess.
---END QUOTATION---



Combat shotguns were used by american soldiers in every theatre from the killing fields of the revolutionary war, to the trenches of WWI, to the Jungles of Vietnam (and they are still used today). During that time rifles have evolved from muzzle-loaded flintlocks, to bolt-action, heavy calibre slug-throwers to low-impulse, fully-automatic rifles... the shotgun has remained unchanged since the late 1800's. There have been a few attempts to load them from box magazines, etc, but none have been very popular. I don't know if there are going to be any worth-while quantum-leaps forward in shotgun design, especially considering that semi-automatics seem to have more than enough firepower on tap as they are.
 
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