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  00:45:51  11 September 2009
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Kane4
"Order of the Liquidators" and Dez0wave Tester
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/17/2008
Messages: 12616
Sorry, I thought you wrote that! I was actually referring to Foxbat25m! Me with my hasty reading. That HK has really distracted me from everything!
  04:38:04  11 September 2009
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Foxbat25m
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/19/2009
Messages: 89

---QUOTATION---
Sorry, I thought you wrote that! I was actually referring to Foxbat25m! Me with my hasty reading. That HK has really distracted me from everything!
---END QUOTATION---




1) M16/M4 - more accurate than the AK-47/74, FAL, ect.

2) M14 - more accurate than the AK-47, FAL, G3 ect.

3) M1 Garrand - more accurate than the SVT-40, G41 and G43.

4) M1903 - more accurate than the Enfields ect.
  06:31:52  11 September 2009
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BobBQ
2007-2017
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/30/2007
Messages: 3336

---QUOTATION---
1) M16/M4 - more accurate than the AK-47/74, FAL, ect.

2) M14 - more accurate than the AK-47, FAL, G3 ect.

3) M1 Garrand - more accurate than the SVT-40, G41 and G43.

4) M1903 - more accurate than the Enfields ect.
---END QUOTATION---


Accuracy has never been the only criterion for an effective battle rifle. In real war not every man is a sniper - unless you're in Switzerland, which doesn't fight real wars - and simply being able to hit some part of one's opponent from within three to four hundred meters was good enough for most of the world, most of the time. (How the arms makers designed and manufactured all those 2000 meter / yard sights with a straight face is one of life's great mysteries.)

So the M1903 was more accurate than the Lee-Enfield? That's not as special in practice as it might sound: the SMLE was faster to operate, held twice as many rounds and had a good bullet in the standard .303 Mark VII loading. The British were well aware that the SMLE wasn't the most accurate rifle around, too: that's why they preferred the Enfield Pattern 1914 - based, like the M1903, on the slow but solid Mauser 98 action - for sniper duty. Even without a scope, the P14's aperture sights were far better than those of the M1903 - and the P14's .30-06 offspring, the M1917, solidly outnumbered the M1903 in American hands when we slowpoke Yanks finally joined the Great War.

The M1903 didn't get battle sights on a par with those of the P14 until the advent of the M1903A3 in the early 1940s, by which time both the M1 Garand and the Lee-Enfield No 4 had featured them for years. And despite the M1903's supposedly superior accuracy, the M1903A4 sniper variant was so unpopular that the USMC - which used the M1903 design longer than the US Army - didn't issue it.

So the M1 Garand was more accurate than its Soviet and German counterparts? It had an apterture sight while the others did not, but as mentioned above the difference in mechanical accuracy tended to be so small that it was rarely of interest to anyone except snipers. Sadly the Garand seems to have been an awkward beast to equip with a scope, unlike the SVT-40 and G43 which both saw extensive use in sharpshooting. The SVT's performance was subpar in that role, it is true, but the Soviets get credit for at least trying.

Comparing the M14 to the AK-47 or AKM is downright daft, on the same level as complaining that your Uncle Barney's Ford Escort can't go from zero to sixty in two seconds. Comparing the M14 to the FAL or G3 isn't much use, either - all three had aperture-type sights, so the difference in practical accuracy mattered little. Consider also that the G3 served as the basis for more successful sniper rifles than the M14, though to its credit the latter is thriving in its modern career as a DMR.

So what's left? The AR-15 / M16 versus the AK-47 / AKM, about which people have pointlessly argued since time immemorial.
  06:42:58  11 September 2009
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 27350
Show your arsenal!

BobBQ:

---QUOTATION---

So what's left? The AR-15 / M16 versus the AK-47 / AKM, about
which people have pointlessly argued since time immemorial.

---END QUOTATION---



BobBQ~

Luckily this has already been settled in the Zone.

TS
  07:31:21  11 September 2009
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Foxbat25m
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/19/2009
Messages: 89
Not disagreeing with you, if I was stuck with one bolt gun to use in WWII, it would be the Enfield. 10 rounds plus quicker to bolt is far better than accuracy. I'd imagine your average person could hit man sized targets easily at 500 meters.

But my point was the American rifles have always been accurate, as the US military puts accuracy and marksmanship as a bigger priority compared to other countries. Which is why I doubt we'll see an American made AS VAL/VSS counter part.

That was my point.

Got some more pics of my Mosin:
[URL=http://img9.imageshack.us/i/mosinhigh.jpg/][IMG]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3403/mosinhigh.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img195.imageshack.us/i/mosinhigh2.jpg/][IMG]http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1403/mosinhigh2.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img197.imageshack.us/i/mosinhigh8.jpg/][IMG]http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/7086/mosinhigh8.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img200.imageshack.us/i/mosinhigh9.jpg/][IMG]http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4010/mosinhigh9.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img9.imageshack.us/i/mosinandakoutdoors.jpg/][IMG]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1762/mosinandakoutdoors.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img9.imageshack.us/i/mosinandakoutdoors3.jpg/][IMG]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3334/mosinandakoutdoors3.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img38.imageshack.us/i/mosinandakoutdoors2.jpg/][IMG]http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2244/mosinandakoutdoors2.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img7.imageshack.us/i/mosinhigh3.jpg/][IMG]http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4766/mosinhigh3.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img25.imageshack.us/i/mosinhigh4.jpg/][IMG]http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9130/mosinhigh4.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img196.imageshack.us/i/mosinhigh5.jpg/][IMG]http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9707/mosinhigh5.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


[URL=http://img38.imageshack.us/i/mosinhigh10.jpg/][IMG]http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2772/mosinhigh10.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://img17.imageshack.us/i/mosinhigh6.jpg/][IMG]http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/999/mosinhigh6.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I'll be selling it and getting an AR-15 complete lower sometime in the next week or two. For those of you who aren't gun savvy, that means the lower half of an semi auto only M16.

I might sell my AK for the upper half. Not sure I want to part with it though... but I want to start saving up for a new CPU and video card. Too bad money is tight...
  10:11:38  11 September 2009
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Acolyte
Stay away from the Brahmin Fries
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/27/2008
Messages: 1669

---QUOTATION---
I'll be selling it and getting an AR-15 complete lower sometime in the next week or two.
---END QUOTATION---



Can I ask why you're selling it? I can't imagine you'd get enough for it to make much of a difference. Mosins are as common as sand in the desert.

It's good to have at least one long-barreled, bolt-action rifle that fires a nice powerful round for distance work once the zombie apocalypse kicks off.
  11:09:24  11 September 2009
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Acolyte
Stay away from the Brahmin Fries
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/27/2008
Messages: 1669
Tantal is out

I sent a query to J&G Sales regarding the weight and magazine types of the Tantal I posted earlier. Dude said the Tantal weighed 10lbs and only accepted Tantal magazines. So that's out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rpa_BSoypw

The rifle he has is what I'm after now, I think. J&G has a nice one but it has a fixed stock, and that's a no-go.
  18:59:24  11 September 2009
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Siro
Local Law-Enforcement
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 03/02/2005
Messages: 7378
I promised pics of my arsenal, but I'm currently having HD trouble. I'll get the pics when I can.

For now, enjoy an old photoshopped one of my Makarov.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8021/gunbgbw.jpg
  20:16:07  11 September 2009
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Foxbat25m
(Senior)
 
On forum: 08/19/2009
 

Message edited by:
Foxbat25m
09/11/2009 20:18:28
Messages: 89
Selling the Mosin to fund a cheap (as in low price) complete AR lower. I can find Mosins for $135 quite commonly, but not complete lowers for $240. Most complete lowers go for $300 or so here.

I also originally wanted a Tantal. Maybe when there are a lot of Saiga 5.45s, I'll get one of those and convert it to a normal AK-74.
  21:22:17  11 September 2009
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Kane4
"Order of the Liquidators" and Dez0wave Tester
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/17/2008
 

Message edited by:
Kane4
09/11/2009 21:22:47
Messages: 12616

---QUOTATION---
Tantal is out

I sent a query to J&G Sales regarding the weight and magazine types of the Tantal I posted earlier. Dude said the Tantal weighed 10lbs and only accepted Tantal magazines. So that's out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rpa_BSoypw

The rifle he has is what I'm after now, I think. J&G has a nice one but it has a fixed stock, and that's a no-go.
---END QUOTATION---



Looks good. I was amazed at the low recoil of that rifle. I'm sure the accuracy is good as well. I want one, too!
 
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