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  17:48:44  14 September 2021
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Three Mile Island
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2008
 

Message edited by:
Three Mile Island
09/14/2021 17:51:34
Messages: 3670
Congratulations!

The situation here seems to be the same, you can order a complete, customized PC with a high end video card, but separate cards are out of stock. I ordered my most expensive PC to date in 2017, so I'm not anxious to get another complete one just yet. I just wish I'd picked a larger SSD, almost all my games need to be stored on the old slow HDD. Your 2*1TB SSDs should last at least for a little while...

Does this mean you still have the old PC parts? If you want to sell the old video card I assume its second-hand market price will be higher than usual for as long as the new card shortage persists.
  12:46:55  16 September 2021
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nashathedog
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 01/31/2011
Messages: 8353

---QUOTATION---
Congratulations!

The situation here seems to be the same, you can order a complete, customized PC with a high end video card, but separate cards are out of stock. I ordered my most expensive PC to date in 2017, so I'm not anxious to get another complete one just yet. I just wish I'd picked a larger SSD, almost all my games need to be stored on the old slow HDD. Your 2*1TB SSDs should last at least for a little while...

Does this mean you still have the old PC parts? If you want to sell the old video card I assume its second-hand market price will be higher than usual for as long as the new card shortage persists.
---END QUOTATION---



With many triple a titles pushing 60+ gb's it is a nightmare, Adding an SSD shouldn't be a problem though and if you buy a Samsung SSD they have free software you can use to clone your old drive to the new one.
I tried it out recently when I bought a 1tb M.2 Samsung 980 for 80 quid to replace my 500GB Boot drive and even with cloning it was a quick & simple task, It doesn't matter what brand the old drive is, only that the new one is Samsung. I'm not sure where you are but current pricing for SSD's is good here in the UK to possibly okay elsewhere too.

A month or so ago I spent £90 on a 1tb Samsung 870 QVO SSD and it came with a free copy of Resident Evil Village which was a fairly new game at the time.

My local online seller OCUK (The SSD deals above were over at Scan.co.uk) has had cards like the 6700XT in stock for months but they want around £700 or so and while I've spent that much on a GPU in the past I can't afford to keep doing it & the 6700XT is a direct replacement for the 5700XT which was a £400 card so I'm not paying £700 & if the current pricing persists I'll wait for the next gen which is hopefully using a variant of their MCM chip design that Ryzen uses. Not all of the 7000 series cards will be using MCM but the with the ones that do we could see some massive performance increases with RDNA3.
  16:27:11  16 September 2021
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Three Mile Island
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 3670

---QUOTATION---
With many triple a titles pushing 60+ gb's it is a nightmare, Adding an SSD shouldn't be a problem though and if you buy a Samsung SSD they have free software you can use to clone your old drive to the new one.
I tried it out recently when I bought a 1tb M.2 Samsung 980 for 80 quid to replace my 500GB Boot drive and even with cloning it was a quick & simple task, It doesn't matter what brand the old drive is, only that the new one is Samsung. I'm not sure where you are but current pricing for SSD's is good here in the UK to possibly okay elsewhere too.

---END QUOTATION---


True, even a 1TB SSD would only contain around 15 games at those sizes. Fortunately it seems my motherboard has additional M.2 sockets (if I can find them), and it even seems you can attach M.2 SSDs on the board itself.

Will that cloning software copy the entire old drive, or can you choose what you want moved (like games)? I'd like to keep other things than games on the mechanical HDD, in case an SSD failure would lead to complete data loss. Then again I guess the copied data remains on the HDD even after cloning?


---QUOTATION---
My local online seller OCUK (The SSD deals above were over at Scan.co.uk) has had cards like the 6700XT in stock for months but they want around £700 or so and while I've spent that much on a GPU in the past I can't afford to keep doing it & the 6700XT is a direct replacement for the 5700XT which was a £400 card so I'm not paying £700 & if the current pricing persists I'll wait for the next gen which is hopefully using a variant of their MCM chip design that Ryzen uses. Not all of the 7000 series cards will be using MCM but the with the ones that do we could see some massive performance increases with RDNA3.
---END QUOTATION---


There were some RTX 3060 cards in stock a few weeks ago, but they seem to be gone now. 3060Ti and higher are still available, but they start around 700 Euro and I'd need a bigger PSU as well.
  10:43:12  17 September 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/17/2021 12:09:08
Messages: 29143
PC upgrading

nashathedog:

---QUOTATION---

You picked good parts,
I'd like to replace my GPU in time for STALKER 2 but pricing's a rip-off & I won't be able to afford a prebuilt just for the GPU. I won't be moving on from my rig until AMD (assuming I stick with them) release the next platform (AM5) with DDR5 support so for the forseeable I'm on AM4 with PCIe 3.0, I may even wait & jump over the first gen AM5 like I did with the Ryzen 3000 series.

At the moment my little Navi Graphics card isn't struggling to stay above 60 fps at 1440p in any games once I tweak the graphical settings so I can't complain. I have run out of system memory a couple of times when video editing but I'll have to live around that as I don't want to spend anymore money on stuff like DDR4 as it's almost at end of life. It's the same with M.2 drives if I'm going to buy anymore of those it'll be a 4.0 model presuming they're backwards compatible. I haven't looked into that yet.

On a good note AMD released a new driver yesterday that supports Smart Access Memory with the 5000 series GPU's like mine so it'll be interesting to see what difference it makes over the next few days.

---END QUOTATION---



Nasha

Thanks. I'm not really familiar with the AMD equivalents to Nvidia on video cards, so I'm unsure what you have for Stalker 2. If it will do 1440p, that sounds like you should be fine. My GTX 1070 Ti was probably good enough for Stalker 2, with the exception of no Ray Tracing. However as you know, I was due for an overall upgrade on all my parts and the reason why I wanted to get the latest, despite there being news of the 12th generation Intel CPUs and Asus Z690 Motherboards about to come out.

I think the lack of GPUs for the entire pandemic and cryptocurrency resurgence will make other parts more scarce too. The chip shortage is a problem now and will be a problem for all of 2022 and possibly 2023. I truly believe the choices are now, of paying a lot more for computer parts and electronics items or simply not being able to get them far longer than people anticipate.

As far as M2 SSDs go, I noticed the Asus Z370-E Motherboard I bought in 2018 had only 2 built into the MB slots, and only one had a MB heat shield, with the other one open. I had bought several SSDs at the same time but prices were high and the most common size was 512GB. Most all of them had built on heat shields and I guess they are 1.0 since they don't say anything. My new Asus Z590-E has four slots built into the MB and all have MB heat shields, so you have to get naked SSDs, meaning I can't use what I bought in 2018. 2 slots are 4.0 and 2 slots are 3.0. I bought one that was 4.0 with the build, the Western Digital. However the 2 Acers I bought separately ( not part of the NewEgg build ) since they were on sale ( $99 each at 20% off > $79 each ) for 1 TB each. That seems to be the current sweet spot for the most bang for the buck if you get them on sale.

I did not realize until I read this article, that if you use M2 NVMe SSD slots on your MB, you may be using an individual SATA slot. That means you cannot add a 2.5 SATA SSD drive if that slot is being used. In other words, it's one or the other for that lane. NVMe is much faster and doesn't require both a SATA cable and a power supply cable, so NVMe on the MB is the best way to go.

How to install an SSD
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/how-to-install-an-ssd

TS
  11:31:50  17 September 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/17/2021 11:56:20
Messages: 29143
PC upgrading

Three Mile Island:

---QUOTATION---

Congratulations!

The situation here seems to be the same, you can order a complete, customized PC with a high end video card, but separate cards are out of stock. I ordered my most expensive PC to date in 2017, so I'm not anxious to get another complete one just yet. I just wish I'd picked a larger SSD, almost all my games need to be stored on the old slow HDD. Your 2*1TB SSDs should last at least for a little while...

Does this mean you still have the old PC parts? If you want to sell the old video card I assume its second-hand market price will be higher than usual for as long as the new card shortage persists.

---END QUOTATION---



Three Mile Island

Thanks for the Congrats. It's a strange time for us all to be in, when before it was just cryptocurrency alone making things difficult. Now with the pandemic and the following chip shortage as a result, it's a triple whammy on computer enthusiasts. Even rumors of future SSD shortages will soon be a reality.

Here's a few examples of the New Egg Shuffle where you sign up to randomly be chosen for a video card purchase and how they are currently combining them with high end Motherboards to deter cryptocurrency buyers.

AMD Video Card & MB combo:
https://i.imgur.com/icH9QX9.png

Gigabyte 3070 with AMD and 3080 with Intel MB combos:
https://i.imgur.com/EAgQ6PN.png

Gigabyte 3080Ti with Intel & Asus 3080Ti with AMD MB combos:
https://i.imgur.com/XlTzioi.png

Gigabyte 3090 & Asus 3090 MB Combos:
https://i.imgur.com/HnQ51ot.png

As you can see, some of those are expensive for getting only 2 parts. It's also what they choose as far as brands and models go so you might not see the video card and Intel/AMD MB combo choice you want. Even if you see what you want, you may not be randomly chosen when the Shuffle commences. I just didn't want to go this route.

As far as all my 2018 parts go, I'm going to go ahead and build it as I intended. It's a more complex build, with water cooling for the CPU and several additional peripherals for the much larger more expensive case I picked out. Not only do I want to get the experience of building my own ( since it's been over a decade ) it's always a good idea to have a backup.

TS
  11:57:30  18 September 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/18/2021 12:49:45
Messages: 29143
PC upgrading

nashathedog:

---QUOTATION---

With many triple a titles pushing 60+ gb's it is a nightmare, Adding an SSD shouldn't be a problem though and if you buy a Samsung SSD they have free software you can use to clone your old drive to the new one.
I tried it out recently when I bought a 1tb M.2 Samsung 980 for 80 quid to replace my 500GB Boot drive and even with cloning it was a quick & simple task, It doesn't matter what brand the old drive is, only that the new one is Samsung. I'm not sure where you are but current pricing for SSD's is good here in the UK to possibly okay elsewhere too.

A month or so ago I spent £90 on a 1tb Samsung 870 QVO SSD and it came with a free copy of Resident Evil Village which was a fairly new game at the time.

My local online seller OCUK (The SSD deals above were over at Scan.co.uk) has had cards like the 6700XT in stock for months but they want around £700 or so and while I've spent that much on a GPU in the past I can't afford to keep doing it & the 6700XT is a direct replacement for the 5700XT which was a £400 card so I'm not paying £700 & if the current pricing persists I'll wait for the next gen which is hopefully using a variant of their MCM chip design that Ryzen uses. Not all of the 7000 series cards will be using MCM but the with the ones that do we could see some massive performance increases with RDNA3.

---END QUOTATION---



Nasha

You've got a good point about the recent trend of Games getting so much larger. Of course, I'd like to think it's mainly open world Games that are a good value for the money they cost. I'm not sure how much size Stalker 2 is going to be but I anticipate it won't be small. I have yet to use any cloning software or a need for it but I can understand how in your case it was helpful. I'm just not a big Samsung fan but that's great it comes with their SSDs.

That reminded me, when you mentioned getting Resident Evil Village with your Samsung SSD, I forgot to mention the "free gift item" I got with the purchase of my 11th generation Intel CPU. It was called the Intel IGD Software Bundle, that includes the "Crysis Remastered" Trilogy & "Humankind". No idea what that last Game is, but this deal is good for anyone buying the same until February 28, 2022.

Note: Crysis Remastered Trilogy is launching on October 15th 2021
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16800985112

If you think video card prices are crazy now, have you heard what might the next generation of Nvidia is projected to cost?

I'm not buying the $2,999 GeForce RTX 4090 price prediction, but should I?
https://www.pcgamer.com/im-not-buying-the-dollar2999-geforce-rtx-4090-price-prediction-but-should-i/

I do not think things are going to get cheaper for either AMD or Nvidia, because in addition to cryptocurrency ( AMD has stated they will not throttle their video cards like Nvidia is doing for cryptocurrency ) and with the continued pandemic and the resulting chip shortages, will make things far worse in the future for years to come. My advice is to get what you can now, because paying high for what you can get, is far better than having the money for what but you can't buy because it's not available. Sorry for sounding like a broken record.

TS
  00:40:37  20 September 2021
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Three Mile Island
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 3670

---QUOTATION---
I'm not buying the $2,999 GeForce RTX 4090 price prediction, but should I?
https://www.pcgamer.com/im-not-buying-the-dollar2999-geforce-rtx-4090-price-prediction-but-should-i/

---END QUOTATION---


To me that sounds like an unrealistic business model. Card manufacturers make more money selling large quantities at moderate prices, and too few people are prepared to buy such expensive cards for the manufacturers to even bother catering to them. Game developers won't benefit from making games for those few card owners either. But I guess it could be for creating hype, and then lower the price as soon as mass production starts.

All this assuming the price is in today's Dollar value, of course. Maybe they expect hyper inflation and $2,999 will not be that much in a few years.


---QUOTATION---
I do not think things are going to get cheaper for either AMD or Nvidia, because in addition to cryptocurrency ( AMD has stated they will not throttle their video cards like Nvidia is doing for cryptocurrency ) and with the continued pandemic and the resulting chip shortages, will make things far worse in the future for years to come. My advice is to get what you can now, because paying high for what you can get, is far better than having the money for what but you can't buy because it's not available. Sorry for sounding like a broken record.
---END QUOTATION---


Is cryptomining still a problem, didn't China outlaw that a while ago? And would more expensive cards still make mining profitable?

There's been a remarkable number of chip production disruptions lately: a fire, a shortage of water, order cancellations because of the pandemic. Then there was a ship blocking the Suez Canal, cryptominers buying up all stock and gamers wanting new video cards because of Corona lockdowns. But all these sound like one-time incidents that should sort themselves out over time.

I expect retail prices to drop once production normalizes and scalpers can no longer make a profit and try to get out of the market. But that in turn could also make manufacturers increase production slowly on purpose, in order to avoid flooding the market.
  05:55:50  20 September 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/20/2021 10:36:36
Messages: 29143
PC upgrading

Three Mile Island:

---QUOTATION---

To me that sounds like an unrealistic business model. Card manufacturers make more money selling large quantities at moderate prices, and too few people are prepared to buy such expensive cards for the manufacturers to even bother catering to them. Game developers won't benefit from making games for those few card owners either. But I guess it could be for creating hype, and then lower the price as soon as mass production starts.

All this assuming the price is in today's Dollar value, of course. Maybe they expect hyper inflation and $2,999 will not be that much in a few years.

---END QUOTATION---



I think you're missing the point. Video Card manufacturers make a product and the days of selling a lot at moderate prices are over. They're making a great deal of money selling at much higher prices. The demand far exceeds the current supply and that's why prices have gotten astronomical. Game Developers are totally out of the equation and have no control over anything other than making Games as they have always done. The majority of people buying all the video cards are not Gamers and could care less about Gamers getting their fair share.

$2,999 for an RTX 4090 will be a reality next year. Some people were able to get an RTX 3090 for $1,200 last year but if you want one now, the NewEgg build service I used has one for $2,400. An RTX 3080 Ti is $2,100. Go to E-Bay and a brand new one of either of these is $2,500-3,000. You are acting like these hyper-inflation prices will be in the future and I'm trying to tell you they are here now.

The bottom line is mass production will NOT produce lower prices in the immediate future. The only low prices you are going to see is when they start releasing ( big "If" ) the older RTX 2070s and GTX 1660s to meet the demand, and all of those will still be twice the cost of what they were new.


---QUOTATION---

Is cryptomining still a problem, didn't China outlaw that a while ago? And would more expensive cards still make mining profitable?

---END QUOTATION---



"In May, the University of Cambridge estimated that crypto mining internationally consumes as much electricity as Sweden."

from:

The Crypto Craze: China’s Ban Came None Too Soon
https://www.forbes.com/sites/annestevenson-yang/2021/08/30/what-does-chinas-crypto-ban-mean-for-the-industry/?sh=133218082a12

Chinese court returns over 485,000 Radeon GPUs to cloud mining company
https://www.techspot.com/news/91002-chinese-court-returns-over-485000-radeon-gpus-cloud.html

Just because China has banned this doesn't mean it will stop. Drugs are outlawed yet they still proliferate. Guns are outlawed in many countries yet you can still get them. Outlawing things only makes the price go up. It invites the criminal element to get involved and once they do, you will see even more shortages for the average Gamer.


---QUOTATION---

There's been a remarkable number of chip production disruptions lately: a fire, a shortage of water, order cancellations because of the pandemic. Then there was a ship blocking the Suez Canal, cryptominers buying up all stock and gamers wanting new video cards because of Corona lockdowns. But all these sound like one-time incidents that should sort themselves out over time.

---END QUOTATION---



I'm not understanding how you think things are going to go back to the way they used to be. This is the new normal. The Pandemic is our new way of life as variant after variant will keep arriving, as long as people fight vaccinations and huge swaths of the world like Africa, India and Asia remain untreated.

An all-time high of 56 cargo ships are stuck waiting off the California coast, as shipping ports hit their 4th record backup in three weeks
https://www.businessinsider.com/shipping-delays-china-supply-chain-record-ships-stuck-california-ports-2021-8

Why even giant ships can't solve the shipping crisis
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58479148


---QUOTATION---

I expect retail prices to drop once production normalizes and scalpers can no longer make a profit and try to get out of the market. But that in turn could also make manufacturers increase production slowly on purpose, in order to avoid flooding the market.

---END QUOTATION---



That's simply not going to happen. In addition to video cards not dropping in prices, home construction is not, rent prices are not, automotive prices are not. All electronics will either cost more or not be available.

Literally I'm warning that anything that contains a computer chip, you should buy now while you can. It will either go up in price or not be available.

TS

Note: Hey thanks for discussing this. I certainly don't mean to come across as arguing. I feel more like I'm trying to tell my friends and any readers, that good advice for us all is to bite the bullet and get what you want know. Darker days are ahead. I predict ( any many, many other sources are saying the same ) that 2022 and 2023 will be more of the same. Past that I simply do not know.
  17:05:20  20 September 2021
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Three Mile Island
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2008
 

Message edited by:
Three Mile Island
09/20/2021 17:10:44
Messages: 3670
Tejas,

---QUOTATION---
The majority of people buying all the video cards are not Gamers and could care less about Gamers getting their fair share.

---END QUOTATION---


I agree that cryptomining could sustain a market for very expensive cards, at least for a little while. But I think manufacturers prefer the more stable consumer demand from gamers, and don't want the gaming market to risk dying out due to lack of cards (maybe gamers switch to other hobbies if they can't buy cards?).

One solution could be to sell the newest/fastest cards to cryptominers, while gamers will have to settle for the second-best. That's not too bad, I personally see no urgent gaming need for the fastest cards right now anyway (even Stalker 2 just recommends a moderate RTX 2070, not a 4070 or even a 3070). In fact I've almost never bought the absolutely newest cards anyway, because I consider them poor value for money. For example, today I could buy a 3060 or 3070; but a 3090 wouldn't give any additional performance, so why waste money on it?


---QUOTATION---
$2,999 for an RTX 4090 will be a reality next year. Some people were able to get an RTX 3090 for $1,200 last year but if you want one now, the NewEgg build service I used has one for $2,400. An RTX 3080 Ti is $2,100. Go to E-Bay and a brand new one of either of these is $2,500-3,000.
---END QUOTATION---


But are these cards actually getting sold? Two of my local online stores stock over a hundred RTX 3080 Ti each (for about 1800 Euros), meaning nobody has bought them (not even Swedish cryptominers). But almost all the ~1000 Euro cards are gone, suggesting that's where the price limit is.

On Ebay it's important to check prices for Sold Items, since that place is flooded with fantasy price listings that never get sold (this goes for almost any products listed there, not just PC components). For example, you can find lots of $5000-7000 listings for say a particular guitar, then if you check the Sold Items only 2-3 got sold over the last year for just $1500 each...


---QUOTATION---
"In May, the University of Cambridge estimated that crypto mining internationally consumes as much electricity as Sweden."

from:

The Crypto Craze: China’s Ban Came None Too Soon
https://www.forbes.com/sites/annestevenson-yang/2021/08/30/what-does-chinas-crypto-ban-mean-for-the-industry/?sh=133218082a12

---END QUOTATION---


But it also says that China's low electricity cost made cryptomining especially profitable there: "Chinese miners has long received subsidized rates for electricity".

Also: "machines released in 2018 and 2019 are already obsolete". So once RTX 4090 becomes available, I'm sure cryptominers will lose interest in today's cards, and so their prices will go down.


---QUOTATION---
Chinese court returns over 485,000 Radeon GPUs to cloud mining company
https://www.techspot.com/news/91002-chinese-court-returns-over-485000-radeon-gpus-cloud.html

---END QUOTATION---


Note that it says: "Despite the victory, Genesis Mining now has the difficult task of finding homes for a very large batch of aging hardware."


---QUOTATION---


There's been a remarkable number of chip production disruptions lately: a fire, a shortage of water, order cancellations because of the pandemic. Then there was a ship blocking the Suez Canal, cryptominers buying up all stock and gamers wanting new video cards because of Corona lockdowns. But all these sound like one-time incidents that should sort themselves out over time.


I'm not understanding how you think things are going to go back to the way they used to be. This is the new normal. The Pandemic is our new way of life as variant after variant will keep arriving, as long as people fight vaccinations and huge swaths of the world like Africa, India and Asia remain untreated.

An all-time high of 56 cargo ships are stuck waiting off the California coast, as shipping ports hit their 4th record backup in three weeks
https://www.businessinsider.com/shipping-delays-china-supply-chain-record-ships-stuck-california-ports-2021-8

Why even giant ships can't solve the shipping crisis
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58479148

---END QUOTATION---


It's true that the pandemic is disrupting shipping, but that just adds a premium on shipping costs, which affects toys just as much as video cards. I don't see how the pandemic would affect the actual chip production, except indirectly through volatile order stocks. The latter was apparently caused by the auto industry cancelling orders, and then starting re-ordering just as the chip factories had begun downsizing production.


---QUOTATION---
In addition to video cards not dropping in prices, home construction is not, rent prices are not, automotive prices are not.
---END QUOTATION---


But that's general inflation. Usually it means salaries will increase too, unless society really goes south.


---QUOTATION---
Literally I'm warning that anything that contains a computer chip, you should buy now while you can. It will either go up in price or not be available.
---END QUOTATION---


If that's the case I would also recommend protection for voltage spikes/surges. You don't want lightning or similar to fry your electronics if there are no spare parts available...


---QUOTATION---
Note: Hey thanks for discussing this. I certainly don't mean to come across as arguing. I feel more like I'm trying to tell my friends and any readers, that good advice for us all is to bite the bullet and get what you want know. Darker days are ahead. I predict ( any many, many other sources are saying the same ) that 2022 and 2023 will be more of the same. Past that I simply do not know.
---END QUOTATION---


No problem! I'm alas procrastinating as usual, and the RTX 3060 cards I had in mind are already gone...
  02:51:20  22 September 2021
profilee-mailreply Message URLTo the Top
Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/22/2021 6:12:19
Messages: 29143
PC upgrading

Three Mile Island:

---QUOTATION---

I agree that cryptomining could sustain a market for very expensive cards, at least for a little while. But I think manufacturers prefer the more stable consumer demand from gamers, and don't want the gaming market to risk dying out due to lack of cards (maybe gamers switch to other hobbies if they can't buy cards?).

---END QUOTATION---



Cryptocurrency Miners are using all the high end, mid-range and even some low end except for the very bottom end of the scale. Consumers ( non-Gamers ) are forced to fight over the very minimum basic video cards and even those have gone up in price. Plus, their production has decreased as the Manufacturers are focused on the higher profit fabrications.

I don't think Manufacturers care about average volume sales from Gamers over higher volume sales for any reason. That wouldn't make any sense. Even with greater difficulties producing enough with increased demand by Cryptocurrency Miners, this means higher profits for everyone, from the manufacturers of the chips, the video card fabricators, the middle men who ship them and the sellers who stock them. There is always the risk things could have a decrease in the demand, but we really haven't seen that. As I keep saying, the Cryptocurrency Miners, the Pandemic with the shutdowns in Asia where factories are temporarily closed, the Gamer's demand and the problem with shipping and the lack of workers to load at the point of origin and the same to be unloaded, has created the Perfect Storm of where we find ourselves now.

I don't think Gamers are suddenly going to take up another hobby. They will either pay more like I have or delay a purchase like you have and get by longer with what you have. Some may even purchase an Xbox just to play Stalker 2 if they are unable to get something on a PC that will play it.


---QUOTATION---

One solution could be to sell the newest/fastest cards to cryptominers, while gamers will have to settle for the second-best. That's not too bad, I personally see no urgent gaming need for the fastest cards right now anyway (even Stalker 2 just recommends a moderate RTX 2070, not a 4070 or even a 3070).

---END QUOTATION---



Good luck getting anyone to follow your solution about who to sell to.

Actually the recommended is the RTX 2070 Super, which is not a moderate card ( closer to an RTX 2080 than a regular RTX 2070 ) or a GTX 1080 Ti.
https://i.imgur.com/eE7GiiV.jpg

I wonder just how low you have to adjust the graphics to play with the minimum.


---QUOTATION---

In fact I've almost never bought the absolutely newest cards anyway, because I consider them poor value for money. For example, today I could buy a 3060 or 3070; but a 3090 wouldn't give any additional performance, so why waste money on it?

---END QUOTATION---



Me neither. I think I had a GTX 560 when I played Call of Pripyat. From there I moved to a GTX 970 and then a GTX 1070 Ti for my planned build. Getting an RTX 3080 is my first time ever in the upper tier. I think an RTX 3060 would be a great value choice for anyone looking for an upgrade.

RTX 3060 Leads in GPU Market
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/steam-hardware-survey-amd-gains-in-cpus-nvidia-rtx-3060-leads-in-gpu-market-amd-rdna-2-share/


---QUOTATION---

But are these cards actually getting sold? Two of my local online stores stock over a hundred RTX 3080 Ti each (for about 1800 Euros), meaning nobody has bought them (not even Swedish cryptominers). But almost all the ~1000 Euro cards are gone, suggesting that's where the price limit is.

---END QUOTATION---



Of course I'm only speaking for what is happening in the US and what other countries I read about in video cards news. You mention RTX 1080Ti at 1,800 Euros which is about $2,100 in US dollars. While there are some available here for that price, they are selling but not being sold out completely. Limited quantities are available through controlled means like I used.

However look at what sold out on the NewEgg PC Builder service I used:
https://i.imgur.com/pzrqymt.jpg


---QUOTATION---

But it also says that China's low electricity cost made cryptomining especially profitable there: "Chinese miners has long received subsidized rates for electricity".

---END QUOTATION---



I think the point was not about the cost they were getting their electricity for, but the massive usage on a scale of equal to everyone in Sweden.


---QUOTATION---

Also: "machines released in 2018 and 2019 are already obsolete". So once RTX 4090 becomes available, I'm sure cryptominers will lose interest in today's cards, and so their prices will go down.

---END QUOTATION---



Cryptocurrency Miners don't care what the Manufacturers or Gamers deem obsolete. They just care about what works. That's why all the RTX 2000 series and the older GTX 1090s, 1080s, 1070s and some 1600 series got all gobbled up too, in addition to the new RTX 3000 series.


---QUOTATION---

It's true that the pandemic is disrupting shipping, but that just adds a premium on shipping costs, which affects toys just as much as video cards. I don't see how the pandemic would affect the actual chip production, except indirectly through volatile order stocks. The latter was apparently caused by the auto industry cancelling orders, and then starting re-ordering just as the chip factories had begun downsizing production.

---END QUOTATION---



Factories closing down due to the Delta variant of Covid sweeping across Asia has directly affected chip production for everything from the automotive industry to PC and video card manufacturers. Added to that was the chip orders reduction of 2020 and the massive increase for the same in 2021. As I mentioned above, Covid is affecting the shipyards to load and unload merchandise all over the world.


---QUOTATION---

No problem! I'm alas procrastinating as usual, and the RTX 3060 cards I had in mind are already gone...

---END QUOTATION---



Just keep trying I guess. That's the one new video card that has made the news about new production.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Graphics Cards With Ampere GA104 GPUs Spotted
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3060-graphics-cards-with-ampere-ga104-gpus-spotted/

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 cards start shipping with GA104 GPUs
https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-3060-cards-start-shipping-with-GA104-GPUs.562450.0.html

TS
 
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