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  10:36:50  26 January 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29388
Playing other games

AC Valhalla players find a magic superbow in a pile of rocks
https://www.pcgamer.com/ac-valhalla-players-find-a-magic-superbow-in-a-pile-of-rocks/

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

How can you even enjoy something in 9 seconds?

Someone has completed Hitman 3’s Dubai level in 9 seconds
https://www.vg247.com/2021/01/24/hitman-3-dubai-9-seconds/

TS
  02:16:37  29 January 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29388
Playing other games

Red Dead Redemption 2 Shows Why Rockstar Needs a New IP
https://gamerant.com/new-rockstar-game-red-dead-redemption-2-rdr2/

TS
  21:56:25  29 January 2021
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Three Mile Island
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 3841

---QUOTATION---
How can you even enjoy something in 9 seconds?
---END QUOTATION---


Why not? It's probably not their first playthrough, since you need to get to know a level in order to speed-run it, and their previous playthoughs may have been slower than that.

On the other hand, some younger gamers probably care more about impressing their friends than enjoying their games.
  04:02:57  31 January 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29388
Playing other games

Three Mile Island:

---QUOTATION---

How can you even enjoy something in 9 seconds?
Why not? It's probably not their first playthrough, since you need to get to know a level in order to speed-run it, and their previous playthoughs may have been slower than that.

On the other hand, some younger gamers probably care more about impressing their friends than enjoying their games.

---END QUOTATION---



Well, yes I agree they've most likely have completed the level at least once or more, in order to be good at doing a speed run.

I've always despised speed runs. They reduce all the hard work, created immersion and atmosphere of a Game, just to do the ultimate cheat of ignoring everything to race towards ending it as quickly as possible.

It's like trying to impress someone by saying I can masturbate and achieve orgasm in 5 seconds. Or imagine a Game where you are born and start life as an infant/toddler/child and some idiot comes along and says hey, I can achieve death, a coffin and burial faster than anyone.

A Game world, especially an open-ended one where you can sustain a presence, is something to enjoy and relish as long as possible to me. Not something I want to toss aside like a kleenex I just blew my nose in.

TS
  18:14:45  31 January 2021
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Three Mile Island
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 3841

---QUOTATION---
A Game world, especially an open-ended one where you can sustain a presence, is something to enjoy and relish as long as possible to me. Not something I want to toss aside like a kleenex I just blew my nose in.

---END QUOTATION---


True. I guess these players got tired of the gameworld real quick, or were never really drawn into it in the first place. Sometimes it could be because the game's atmosphere is boring, but still has some gameplay elements making it fun to exploit.
  04:36:12  1 February 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
02/01/2021 4:36:56
Messages: 29388
Playing other games

I stopped playing GTA San Andreas, because there was one scenario where I had to ride a motorcycle and chase after a moving train and attack some targets on it as a timer was going.

Time after time after time, I tried to accomplish this needed task to progress farther in the Game but I failed again and again. I got so disgusted, I never went back.

TS
  06:45:36  2 February 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29388
Playing other games

So, I May Have Made A Mistake In Mass Effect 2
https://kotaku.com/so-i-may-have-made-a-mistake-in-mass-effect-2-1846163014

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Minecraft Herobrine: The story of Minecraft's famous creepypasta
https://www.pcgamer.com/minecraft-herobrine-story-creepypasta-explained/

TS
  18:16:52  2 February 2021
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Three Mile Island
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2008
 

Message edited by:
Three Mile Island
02/02/2021 18:17:11
Messages: 3841
Playing other games

---QUOTATION---

So, I May Have Made A Mistake In Mass Effect 2
https://kotaku.com/so-i-may-have-made-a-mistake-in-mass-effect-2-1846163014

---END QUOTATION---


That's a good description of ME2's fairly intricate end game. It's just a pity that the Choices & Consequences never change the actual gameplay in ME games; it's all about saving team members or getting different cut scenes/dialog choices.

I think multiple endings are overrated. It's much better with multiple ways to replay a game throughout. ME gives you a lot of variety there too, in terms of choosing different squad members or upgrade trees (though the missions themselves are 100% scripted corridors).

And what a surprise that the writer plans to replay the game just in time for the upcoming ME remaster. I absolutely didn't see that coming.
  00:12:44  3 February 2021
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
02/03/2021 0:31:45
Messages: 29388
Playing other games

Three Mile Island:

---QUOTATION---

So, I May Have Made A Mistake In Mass Effect 2
https://kotaku.com/so-i-may-have-made-a-mistake-in-mass-effect-2-1846163014

That's a good description of ME2's fairly intricate end game. It's just a pity that the Choices & Consequences never change the actual gameplay in ME games; it's all about saving team members or getting different cut scenes/dialog choices.

I think multiple endings are overrated. It's much better with multiple ways to replay a game throughout. ME gives you a lot of variety there too, in terms of choosing different squad members or upgrade trees (though the missions themselves are 100% scripted corridors).

And what a surprise that the writer plans to replay the game just in time for the upcoming ME remaster. I absolutely didn't see that coming.
---END QUOTATION---



I only read the full article after your comments. I mainly posted it because of your known interest in Mass Effect. The article had a reference to a chart, that in turn was a post and discussion on Reddit:
https://i.imgur.com/EcCOiRy.jpg

At the end of the "So, I May Have Made A Mistake In Mass Effect 2" article, was a comment by a reader:

"I don’t understand when people do this, but I was super into this game and paid attention. I didn’t even know anybody could die til a couple weeks later, I was discussing this with friends. They all lost one character, different ones.

It’s faded with time, but I remember thinking every choice was obvious."


Which I thought was kind of funny, compared to the chart making it look complicated.

I don't really have any comparison to this ( that I can remember off the top of my head ) other than Call of Priptat. For the end "Pripyat Underground" mission where you can recruit up to 4 team members, but only 3 if you fail to get Friend of Duty/Freedom to recruit Zulu ( if memory serves correctly ) for that undertaking.

It's very hard to keep your Team alive in the journey. Mainly due to their constantly running head long into dangers like the Snork ambush. right before the Monolith Dome. You literally have to run ahead of them and act like a suicidal madman killing the Snorks just to protect them.

I just read the sad story of a Facebook Stalker group player who bemoaned he lost his entire party when they got to the Monolith Dome ( largest open area ) which is of course another difficult area to keep everyone alive.

I've played a Game where I lost one at the Snork ambush. Another where I lost a Team member at the Monolith Dome. Other Games where I kept my Team of 3 and another with my Team of 4 all alive. I even think the last time I played Call of Pripyat was a Game where some kept dying at the Snork ambush after many tries and I lost interest as another Game or Mod came along and I never completed it.

Likewise one could also compare the end mission of Call of Pripyat, where you have your remaining companions joined by Strelok and some of the allied Military, to make that mad dash run to get to the Helicopter for Evac.

The only variable is where you should have killed the kneeling, praying Monolith leader at the Seaport building. His death ( shooting an unarmed person ) meant they were less organized at the Evac and not killing him meant the Monolith ambush was deadlier and more likely to kill off some of your Team.

By that point you are just glad it is over so you can make it to Free Play or to end your Game. That run is so chaotic, there is little you can do but be in the lead trying to kill the Monolith snipers in key locations before they do the same to your Team.

Not really the same complicated choices as shown on the chart for M.E. but the same feeling of losing companions you don't want to and have a connection with. However, as we both know, the entire Game had variable choices that unknown to the Player ( the first time ) had different shown variables in the end cinematic.

If you played a quick Game, Noah most likely lived and you were rewarded for it in the end cinematic. A longer Game meant mutants or Bandits seeking emission shelter would most likely kill Noah, and his mention is omitted from the cinematic and it is not considered the best ending.

I actually discovered a horrific variable by accident. I one time neglected to clear the Bloodsucker Lair in Zaton. I just thought, no problem I will do it in Free Play. Because of this failure, when the cinematic rolled at the end of my Game, it showed that the Bloodsucker Lair grew out of control and an image of the Skadovsk appeared saying the Bloodsuckers swarmed the ship and killed everyone onboard. Ooops!

TS
  03:18:58  3 February 2021
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Three Mile Island
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 11/04/2008
Messages: 3841
Playing other games


---QUOTATION---

At the end of the "So, I May Have Made A Mistake In Mass Effect 2" article, was a comment by a reader:

"I don’t understand when people do this, but I was super into this game and paid attention. I didn’t even know anybody could die til a couple weeks later, I was discussing this with friends. They all lost one character, different ones.

It’s faded with time, but I remember thinking every choice was obvious."


Which I thought was kind of funny, compared to the chart making it look complicated.

---END QUOTATION---


The chart just shows how complicated the game development must have been. The entire ME series must be a nightmare to plan, since the Choices & Consequences continue through all three games, and every outcome (even in story arcs) require different cut scenes and voice acting.

But the reader comment is still right, if you use your head just a little you'll probably not lose any characters, and to lose five requires a very distracted player. You can actually make your own protagonist die in the end, but that takes almost criminal neglect.


---QUOTATION---

I don't really have any comparison to this ( that I can remember off the top of my head ) other than Call of Priptat. For the end "Pripyat Underground" mission where you can recruit up to 4 team members, but only 3 if you fail to get Friend of Duty/Freedom to recruit Zulu ( if memory serves correctly ) for that undertaking.

It's very hard to keep your Team alive in the journey. Mainly due to their constantly running head long into dangers like the Snork ambush. right before the Monolith Dome. You literally have to run ahead of them and act like a suicidal madman killing the Snorks just to protect them.

---END QUOTATION---


In ME2 your squad members don't actually die during firefights, they just pass out. After enemies in a section are dealt with, the fallen squad members just wake up like nothing. All their permanent dying takes place during cut scenes, typically depending on your previous dialog choices.

Multiple endings might be common in RPGs. The Witcher 3 seems to have 2-3 different cut scenes(?), from what I've read depending on how much you pamper and encourage Geralt's adopted daughter Ciri throughout the game. Incredibly cringy writing in my opinion, I can't believe even female gamers like such things. The Witcher 1 also has Choices & Consequences throughout the game, slightly affecting the gameplay of the end mission.


---QUOTATION---

Not really the same complicated choices as shown on the chart for M.E. but the same feeling of losing companions you don't want to and have a connection with. However, as we both know, the entire Game had variable choices that unknown to the Player ( the first time ) had different shown variables in the end cinematic.

---END QUOTATION---


This may sound callous, but I normally don't connect with NPCs like that in games, especially when writers intentionally try to invoke such a reaction. Actually, after playing Shadow of Chernobyl and Clear Sky I'm used to expect NPCs to die in droves in the Zone, so to me it's not a place to find friends (at the most temporary allies). I'd even say it's better not get attached to others there, because they're likely to either trick you or perish soon anyway.

However, I can appreciate the gameplay challenge of keeping various NPCs alive. For example, the "Witcher's Circle" quest in Clear Sky (where you escort the Stalkers through the mining tunnel to the Pseudogiant) was nice. That none of those NPCs can survive in the long run doesn't really matter. I also liked the Pripyat Tunnel mission in Call of Pripyat, but once I got the NPCs to Pripyat alive I didn't care too much about their future destinies. I was even mildly surprised that the game's ending texts assumed that I did. (Maybe it's obvious that CoP isn't my favorite Stalker game? )


---QUOTATION---

I actually discovered a horrific variable by accident. I one time neglected to clear the Bloodsucker Lair in Zaton. I just thought, no problem I will do it in Free Play. Because of this failure, when the cinematic rolled at the end of my Game, it showed that the Bloodsucker Lair grew out of control and an image of the Skadovsk appeared saying the Bloodsuckers swarmed the ship and killed everyone onboard. Ooops!

---END QUOTATION---


That sounds interesting, at least to read about it like this. But to me those ending texts in Call of Pripyat didn't feel right at all. First, since I don't really care about the characters' future life (if Degtyarev got promoted or Strelok got married, etc). Second, it feels lazy by a game to reveal the consequences of the player's choices in the form of ending texts or cut scenes (that goes for Mass Effect too). Taking those Bloodsuckers as an example, wouldn't it have been much more effective to let the player enter Freeplay, return to Skadovsk and find the base abandoned, with lots of dead Bloodsuckers and NPCs laying around, thus leaving the player to figure out what happened for himself? Or find the Skadovsk empty and have some NPC tell you the story in a dialog?
 
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